Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: JimmyM on December 11, 2025, 12:20:54 pm
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Yes, they're viewable.
Thanks for confirming.
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Yes, they're viewable.
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Good morning,
Is anyone able to confirm that they've successfully accessed the files I posted re Brent's Notice of Rejection.
Many thanks,
James.
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These should be the links to the 3 pages of Brent' NofR.
Thoughts appreciated from the collective.
https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQDtPzFZUjleTqSZ0wpe7RtRAU2m9H1WAiabVdLTQWhhLAk
https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQDJQPVaXyafQaEJ6UwBm7WmATBl2BYfwO86pUhswjx6kJA
https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQBjGnRWgYH2TZw5IwCnaZwQAVBDVLRJdGk-3BJEA_4dhqg
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I can't seem to attach pics of Brent' rejection. Probably because I'm doing this via a mobile phone.
I will post later tonight when I have access to a laptop. I
Of note, the NofR is dated 9th Feb so time is pressing if I were to pay. Not so much if I were to go to Tribunal.
Many thanks,
James.
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Here's my appeal grounds;
I would like to appeal against PCN, ref BT27358726, for an alleged contravention on 28th November 2025 on Salusbury Road j/w Hartland Road NW6. Firstly, the box junction itself. The Traffic Signs Manual – Chapter 5 – Road Markings (2018) deals with the setting out and design of yellow box junctions in Section 8. A yellow box junction is assigned Diagram 1043 and this is used throughout S8 of the manual. I refer specifically to fig 8.6 within the manual which deals with the setting out of the road markings. The junction at the site of the alleged contravention has a curved kerb line as Hartland Road narrows towards the junction with Salusbury Road. This has the effect of narrowing the road to a single carriageway and this is achieved with the paving on the NE and SE kerbs extending out into the carriageway to narrow it. The kerb line follows and arc and extends to the east kerb of Salusbury Road. The shape is a 90 degree segment. I refer you to the attached picture showing Starbucks and the two black pillars on the SE kerb. The yellow box junction extends some 2.3m from the black pillar where The Big Issue seller is seated and a total of 4.3m from the mid-point of the curved kerb line. Fig 8.6 in the manual shows the extent of a YBJ – with either a cut out or extending from a mid-point of the curved kerb. The YBJ is too large and has been extended which takes it 4.3m beyond the junction. As a proportion of the total size of the junction the extra 4.3m represents approximately 20%. It is not compliant with Chapter 5, Section 8 of the Traffic Signs Manual - Road Markings (2018). Secondly, the wording of the PCN is confusing and far from clear as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted (v) that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable. As it refers to payment this clearly refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii): (iii) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice; Therefore, it follows that the statement (the last paragraph on page 1 of the PCN): "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be interpreted disjunctively. Simply, payment deals with Date of Notice and Representations are calculated from Date of Service which is deemed 2 days after the Date of Notice. The ‘If you fail’ statement solely mentions ‘Date of Service’ which leads to confusion as to the REAL date that payment needs to be made. In light of the incompliant box junction and the missing mandatory information within the PCN I would be grateful if you could please cancel this PCN.
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Good afternoon,
As anticipated , Brent have rejected my appeal. I appealed on two counts; non compliant YBJ due to size and the wording of the PCN regarding paying or appealling and the conflagration in lumping both options together when the legislation deals with Dates of Notice and Dates of Service thereby creating TWO defined timeframes but Brent's PCN stating 'if you fail to do either' thereby creating ONE date. My initial reading of their Rejection is they've only dealt with the YBJ and not the second point. Unless the phrase 'correctly issued' constitutes a rebuttal.
I'll post the details of my appeal and scans of Brent's rejection for your collective thoughts.
TIA,
James
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All received.
I don't seem to have grasped smileys though!
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Back later.
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Good afternoon,
Refreshing this after the weekend - is my grasp of Section 4(8) correct?
Unsure if Brent's web page is compliant with its lack of statutory defences .
KR,
James
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Afternoon, the only reps so far from Brent are on page 2 of the PCN - this should be the second One Drive link in my original post. Brent list multiple statutory grounds but they don't seem to then ask to select just one which I believe was an issue with I believe, H&F. The website has just one tick box titled 'general representation' and no mention of the statutory ones within the PCN.
And I've seen the smileys slider now.....
Many thanks,
James.
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Hi, Sorry for posting at the weekend. I've yet to make my reps - I'm assuming the reps you're referring to are the inevitable NoR reps by Brent that will surely follow my initial representations.
And have I grasped the concept of Section 4(8)?
Many thanks,
James.
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Thank you for the prompt reply!
I have not made any reps - just deciding how to proceed.
I understand the argument - whether I can communicate this is another matter. I'll try..
Date of notice (DofN) is 04/12/2025.
Date of Service (DofS) is two days further on so 06/12/2025.
To pay I have until 01/01/2025 (or 18/12/2025 for the discounted rate) taking into account the DoN.
Reps by 03/01/2026 taking that as DofS.
BUT, the paragraph starting 'If you fail to pay the PCN or make reps' uses the DofS implying that if I paid on 02/01/2026 I'd be okay when actually I'm outside of the window in the legislation.
I'm guessing the point is which deadline is correct.
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See the first link in my profile re the PCN. Also screenshot their reps. page before you do anything else. I agree re the video.
I acted in the two cases cited. The first one is irrelevant. The second one may be if you follow my first link. I'll do a draft later WHEN you can say you understand the point. ;D
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Good afternoon ,
I have received a PCN for a yellow box junction at the location mentioned. I have not worked out how to upload the video but it's worse than I recalled at the time. A vehicle enters Salusbury Road from my right and as the traffic moves off South it stops with the vehicle stopping in the space I was anticipating to be free.
I have done some research on this (very useful) forum and note that many of the appeals focus on Section 4 (eight) of the relevant legislation and the difference in timeframes of 'date of notice' and 'date of service' effectively creating two distinct deadlines that contradict each other.
I have attached the PCN and hoping the collective subject matter experts can comment as to whether I have a case based on this. Additionally, the website under Representation Grounds only provides one box entitled 'General Representation' and not the statutory ones included on the PCN.
The box junction extends beyond the junction on the nearside outside Starbucks but I don't know if that's sufficient for a representation as it doesn't conform to the regulation design (Traffic signs and something but I can't recall the exact legislation).
PCN via One Drive
https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQDEz04gzYJNSJRiIw6siDCoASqsUOPxFaJbkfHVFJL_2OY?e=zeZd0N
https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQAnRXBTIy6cT6zM9aUrNQ7uAU1QHZnrRoTWtw0I15aHBdA?e=AkZKGb
https://1drv.ms/b/c/226a65a9954e031c/IQAFzuj7ZrEXRJ1GWDLrMRMkAewR7nA9nf7fzR2udzdertA?e=hBgQjr
Google Location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qf2DVeikddgS4cdj7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/T6WajmEK86JwV24p9
The video may work from here;
https://brent.tarantoportal.com/PCN/PCN/ViewImages
BT27358726
WD08HNL
The video is pretty damning and I'm rather embarrased TBH! But the moped managed to get round.....
I have looked at London Tribunals 2250161512 and 2250426286 and crossing my fingers that there's a loophole that I can exploit.
Many thanks,
James