Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Skellum on December 09, 2025, 04:42:47 pm
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Resolved, after consideration decided to pay the reduced fee as I do not have the time to commit to chasing this through tribunal unfortunately.
Good luck to those who decide to take it all the way.
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Failure to consider plus they usually adduce out of date pictures.
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I will PM you.
Didn't see any messages, sent you one but don't see that in my sent either?
Weird ::)
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I will PM you.
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Hi all,
Any advice on this one?
Thank you
Well, they have re-offered the discount, so you have to decide whether to pay-up or take the double-or-quits gamble at London Tribunals. I expect Hippocrates will post soon.
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Hi all,
Any advice on this one?
Thank you
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Hi team,
Received the appeal rejection today.
https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#Y6JLKVN
https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#j6FG3Jn
https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#L4hjQ9f
https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#oNMaiW1
https://imgpile.com/p/5gUs3o4#1Pyg1UP
Not sure if I have grounds to appeal this further based on their response.
I do note that their pictures don't include the directional arrows they reference though.
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I believe they reoffer the discount. But, let's cross that bridge in due course and hold fire.
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I have submitted an appeal using the above information, should my appeal be denied will I be offered the reduced rate still or expected to pay the full fare?
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Thank you Hippocrates.
I have read that thread and can see the appeal is ongoing (seems its along the same timeframe only their issue occurred at night and mine during the day).
My main argument is that the guidance is not clear, I had no idea what a bus gate is or whether it was enforced on a Sunday (no buses run this route on that day from what I can find).
Also according to the CCTV the 'contravention' apparently occurs as I pull up to the give way line, technically speaking shouldn't it be enforced AFTER I had passed that line?
I'm guessing the first link in your profile is the same in your signature so
Should I respond with this as a start and see what their response is?
1. The alleged contravention is not proved because the video does not show any alleged upright signage passed.
2. I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable.
Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
Therefore, it follows that the statement: If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable. adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information.
Therefore. please cancel.
Thank you
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https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/harrow-code-33e-used-a-bus-gate-camrose-ave/msg94716/#msg94716
Plus see the 1st link in my profile re the PCN.
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Just to update my own post here, I'm reading up of the DFT circular that seems to reference these bus gates.
One point I note is section 9.7.3.
A bus gate is a short length of bus‑only street. On a two‑way road, access may be
restricted to buses in one direction only, with all traffic permitted in the opposite direction, i.e.
similar to a contraflow lane, but too short to be signed as such. In this case, that part of the
carriageway reserved for buses should be separated from the opposing flow of traffic by a
traffic island and not by a continuous line marking to diagram 1049A (see Figure 9-25). Bus
gates are often used to remove through traffic from a road but allow full access. They effectively
create a “no through road” for all traffic other than buses. The bus gate may be located either
at a junction or part way along a road, and may be used by other vehicles where permitted by
the order. If a bus gate is placed on a road that was previously a signed route or was used by
significant through traffic, consideration should be given to providing or changing directional
signing to guide prohibited traffic to use the preferred alternative route, as described in 5.1.2.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
I'd argue that the lack of warning about the Bus Gate, the incorrectly painted arrows directing you to the Bus Gate lane and the update from the previous design (which was in use up until 2018 as I have screenshots showing this) shows that this consideration has not been taken.
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I've looked through many of the threads but it seems this Bus Gate is constantly changing over the years, annoying had it been a red 'bus lane' I would know not to use it as I am used to seeing these in London and signposted as such, I have never heard of the 'Bus Gate' term nor is it mentioned in the Highway Code to my knowledge.
I don't recall seeing any warnings about the 'Bus Gate' or CCTV enforcement only the width restriction with no clear indication that I needed to move to the middle of the road until I was literally stuck in the left lane.
For some reason I cannot upload the back of the PCN to imgpile as its blocked but I uploaded it here: https://postimg.cc/fkHBdsMj
Please let me know if I have any grounds to appeal.
Thanks!
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Have a look at this thread
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/harrow-code-33e-used-a-bus-gate-camrose-ave/msg94716/#msg94716
There are plenty of threads on this forum for this location. You can search this forum using the search box (top r-h corner of this and every page) and 'Camrose Avenue' as the search term.
Please also post the rest of the PCN, in case of errors in the 'small print'.
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So here it is, the dreaded bus gate complex on Camrose Avenue: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sYoqSnwqUMH3mbyeA
and warning sign of width restriction on exiting the roundabout onto Taunton Way: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UqLwda7hWECf1pZ99
and another one
https://maps.app.goo.gl/c4itGkFf1QESrFp36
and yet another one
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8TCgeyQDm3PKqcaf6
But what there isn't, is any clue that a short bus gate is ahead. For me this is a serious omission, but the council earn so much money from this restriction they are not going to do anything about it. Of course most people who drive along here regularly know about it, many of them getting to know by receiving a PCN !
All I can suggest is you have a look at the London Tribunals Statutory Register using the location as the search argument to see what appeals there are and how many are successful. The signage is plain enough, so finding a robust appeal argument is going to be difficult. Wait a bit for others to comment, but don't miss the deadline for the discount if you're minded to pay-up.
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Sorry, but we do need to see the PCN, and your reg number too, which is on it, However always blank-out name and address. Your registration is in view to all and sundry as you drive around, so it's not a big secret. See here: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Sorry I missed that thread but I've added a photo of the PCN.
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Sorry, but we do need to see the PCN, and your reg number too, which is on it, However always blank-out name and address. Your registration is in view to all and sundry as you drive around, so it's not a big secret. See here: -
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Hi all,
I can see that this road is popular here and I have just received my PCN this morning for driving through the 'Bus Gate' lane of this road.
I'm not from this area and was following Waze which didn't alert me of any traffic restrictions or otherwise, the road was empty so I had no other cars to follow, I've never seen or heard of a 'Bus Gate' only the Red bus only lanes; Hilariously my CCTV footage also shows the driver behind me doing the same thing and likely the one behind them too.
Looking on Google Maps I notice that these lanes used to be red bus only lanes and then were changed to the much less easy-to-spot bus gate design, can't help but think that was intentional especially with the BBC news reporting they make 1.8m a year from this road alone.
Unfortunately for me I can't blame the weather as the CCTV shows it was a nice sunny day although you can see me slow down to the give way line clearly confused at this junction but not realising I needed to move to the middle of the road; I can see some appeals based on signage but realistically do these help my case or is this something I should just pay in this situation?
(Fortunately I think there was traffic on the way back so I likely followed the other cars through the restriction or went a different route home, will let you know if I get another separate PCN for the other direction).
PCN:
(https://imgpile.com/p/TVVcQJF#fYMenrZ)
https://imgpile.com/p/TVVcQJF#fYMenrZ
Thank you.