Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: TheProfessor on November 10, 2023, 07:42:49 am

Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: Incandescent on December 09, 2023, 12:26:03 am
Quote from: TheProfessor on December 08, 2023, 11:34:20 pm
Thank You.

I have sent a response but awaiting to hear and have to allow 56 days for a response! Does it really need 56 days consideration time... ::)
The law is they get 56 days to respond. If they fail to meet this, you win.
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: TheProfessor on December 08, 2023, 11:34:20 pm
Thank You.

I have sent a response but awaiting to hear and have to allow 56 days for a response! Does it really need 56 days consideration time... ::)
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: cp8759 on November 14, 2023, 08:01:34 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on November 11, 2023, 10:40:45 pm
If you look around using your link you'll see marked bays painted so they are part off the carriageway. You can park in these OK, but not where there are none.
I'm not sure that's correct, the chief adjudicator certainly doesn't think so, see Lorna Jennifer Whittick v London Borough of Merton (2160383659, 10 October 2016) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Zs6qrypSl0Iehm7EnxcdZCyqSGsjMJRy).

I would put them to proof:

Dear London Borough of Newham,

Footway parking is permitted on much of Katherine Road, and none of the CEO's photos show any upright signs indicating that footway parking is permitted in marked bays only. In the circumstances I suggest the PCN should be cancelled, but if you are unwilling to do so I request at this early stage that you provide:

1) A copy of the resolution duly made under section 15(4) of the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 to allow footway parking on this road, and
2) Evidence that the authority has complied with its duties under section 15(5).

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: TheProfessor on November 12, 2023, 11:22:37 am
Quote from: Incandescent on November 11, 2023, 10:40:45 pm
Quote from: TheProfessor on November 11, 2023, 07:06:55 pm
Hello,

I just wondered if the GSV was of any use and if it changes the advice?

Thanks
Well, I think it does, because a BB doesn't allow you to park off-carriageway. If you look around using your link you'll see marked bays painted so they are part off the carriageway. You can park in these OK, but not where there are none.
Having said that, in order to allow off-carriageway parking, the council must pass a resolution. It has been found that many of these just authorise such parking by naming the street, implying all of the street is permitted, not just the painted bays.  Councils just get their highway team to paint the bays, without formalising their position. However, the council may have done things properly, and the only way to find out is to ask for the resolution.
Our administrator has got a lot of experience with this, so you may get a result. It is also invariably the case that you have to take them to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision. Councils are totally biased when dealing with PCNs because they keep the money if you pay-up.

Hello,

Thanks for the response. This is useful information.

Is there a template format that I can use to ask for the resolution? And where can I find more information about this resolution?

Thank You.
TP
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: Incandescent on November 11, 2023, 10:40:45 pm
Quote from: TheProfessor on November 11, 2023, 07:06:55 pm
Hello,

I just wondered if the GSV was of any use and if it changes the advice?

Thanks
Well, I think it does, because a BB doesn't allow you to park off-carriageway. If you look around using your link you'll see marked bays painted so they are part off the carriageway. You can park in these OK, but not where there are none.
Having said that, in order to allow off-carriageway parking, the council must pass a resolution. It has been found that many of these just authorise such parking by naming the street, implying all of the street is permitted, not just the painted bays.  Councils just get their highway team to paint the bays, without formalising their position. However, the council may have done things properly, and the only way to find out is to ask for the resolution.
Our administrator has got a lot of experience with this, so you may get a result. It is also invariably the case that you have to take them to London Tribunals for an unbiased decision. Councils are totally biased when dealing with PCNs because they keep the money if you pay-up.
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: TheProfessor on November 11, 2023, 07:06:55 pm
Hello,

I just wondered if the GSV was of any use and if it changes the advice?

Thanks
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: TheProfessor on November 10, 2023, 02:28:33 pm
Quote from: Incandescent on November 10, 2023, 09:32:23 am
Firstly, Katherine Road is a long road, so it is essential you give us a GSV link telling us exactly where your father parked.

Thank You, I have asked for someone to re-visit the location and take pictures and send me a video also, which I will post on here.

In the meantime this is the GSV link of the location, parked opposite G.A Metals on the Single Yellow.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/WviMa2t76kmu3nD36
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: DancingDad on November 10, 2023, 12:36:34 pm
Let's start with the basics.

At NTO stage there is no point in paying.
As long as you do not miss deadlines, penalty will not increase and £130 is most you should ever have to pay.
A challenge can possibly see the discount re-offered.
If nothing else will at least delay when you have to pay so gives a chance to budget.
As one of our frequent flyers has been known to say, put a tenner a week to one side and by the time it is sorted, you have the payment or if you win, a meal out to celebrate.

On any challenge state that you did not find the PCN and although this is not grounds to cancel given that the photos show it on there, they may well re-offer the discount.

BB is not an exemption for footway parking.
There does seem to be soime areas where it is allowed so there may be discrepancies in the Resolution that the authority should have?
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: slapdash on November 10, 2023, 10:07:33 am
Quote
They also state it is possible someone could have tampered with or removed the ticket inside the yellow wrapper.

If you do make a challenge consider the above wording.

Speculation that a ticket was removed from the wrapper does imply knowledge that there had been a ticket, otherwise no empty wrapper would be there.
Title: Re: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: Incandescent on November 10, 2023, 09:32:23 am
Firstly, Katherine Road is a long road, so it is essential you give us a GSV link telling us exactly where your father parked.

Secondly, as you are at NtO stage, it is a no-brainer to submit reps, and, if necessary (if we think it is viable) take them to London Tribunals. It is likely that if you submit reps stating you never received the PCN, they will re-offer the discount. Certainly advice is not to pay at the moment, until you have had a response to representations.

As for non-receipt of the PCN, this is very common with PCNs served to the vehicle, so not grounds for an appeal, unless you can definitely prove it was not served. With parking PCNs it comes down to who the adjudicator believes, using the civil law test of "on the balance of probabilities".  Photos are not even a legal requirement.
Title: LBN (Newham), NTO, Katherine Road E7, Code: 62 One or more wheels on footpath, Blue Badge Displayed.
Post by: TheProfessor on November 10, 2023, 07:42:49 am
Hello,

I am seeking some advice on behalf of my elderly father. I will stick to the facts that I have been told as this is now at the NTO stage and as a pensioner it is causing him considerable stress so would appreciate any advice if anything can be done - or if £130 should now be paid.

The vehicle was parked in London Borough of Newham, Katherine Road E7 which is quite a busy road and not unusual to see cars parked either completely on the footpath or with "one or more wheels on the footpath.."

A visit was made to a shop to pick up some items and the vehicle was driven by a family member and parked with both wheels on the pavement. My father has a mobility issue so a valid blue badge was also displayed. From examining the pictures, it appears to show CEO placing PCN on windscreen. HOWEVER, from speaking to both Father and Helper - they were both none the wiser until the arrival of NTO - and both state that when they returned to vehicle there was 'No PCN on the windscreen, therefore we were unaware until the NTO arrived'. They also state it is possible someone could have tampered with or removed the ticket inside the yellow wrapper.

Obviously this isn't a plausible defence and I can't go back to the council with this.

I have asked for the exact location they were parked so I can see the GSV images - however looking at the images - in the background it can be clearly seen that there are other vehicles that are parked wholly on the pavement (white mercedes)..

I am aware that there is a blanket ban in London for vehicles parking with wheels on or over a footpath unless prescribed by signage.

Please see images.

(https://i.ibb.co/cysx8H5/Screenshot-2023-11-10-07-33-40-34-6012fa4d4ddec268fc5c7112cbb265e7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cysx8H5)

(https://i.ibb.co/m58wVcM/Image1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F4VMLDj)

(https://i.ibb.co/hXGbmtH/Image2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dbNF5z6)

I have asked for the exact location so I can get a GSV and post it up.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.