Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Bella54 on November 23, 2025, 11:13:02 am
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pdf. today. online. screenshot the pages before you send please.
Managed to get the Reps off for this eventually.
Got screenshots & confirmation emails too (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
Thanks Hippocrates 8)
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Found they're email address and telephone number so gave them a quick call and are penning an email to them now, how does this sound??
"Dear Sir's,
Please find see attached Representation in relation to the above PCN that's been issued.
We have been unable to post this on your website as we have found it difficult to navigate due to disability issues and there have been technical obstacles which state that the PCN cannot be found.
The site also doesn't offer the option to submit the Representation under Statutory Grounds, non does it offer "contravention did not occur" and only has a word count box of 1000 as its maximum load.
On telephoning this morning, we were advised by Mrs XXXXX, to email the PCN directly, and we have been informed that we should detail the difficulties, as the current website Enfield Council use's its via a third party.
Please address these issues and acknowledge receipt of the Representation Letter of Appeal attached here.
Yours Sincerely"
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Morning.
Can't get into the website today to post the Reps.
just saying PCN cant be found
Is there any other way they can be sent????
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pdf. today. online. screenshot the pages before you send please.
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Website. Contravention did not occur.
There's not this as an option to select on Enfield website, Just 1000 max word box and the Reps extends the word count.
I can load a copy of the PDF Reps as supporting evidence and enter into the word box
"Contravention Did Not Occur, See full attached Representation Appeal Letter"
Will this suffice?
and what is the cut off date for these Reps to be sent Please and could they also be sent by post?
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Website. Contravention did not occur.
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FOr postal PCNs, it is normal for councils to re-offer the discount when rejecting reps received within the 14 day discount period. The exception to this is Havering who never re-offer the discount, and have now made a rod for their own back, because if no discount is re-offered, it is then a total no-brainer to take them to adjudication, which gives them a load of hassle in preparing for the adjudication and paying the adjudication fee.
Thank you Incandescent.
We've held off posting the reps at Hippocrates request in posts #16, #17 & #18
we're not really concerned with the discounted rate being offered as the PCN could be a double wammy.
Just weren't sure about which of the options on Enfields Appeal site we should select to put the reps in to and the timeline/end date to send the Reps either on the website or by post if needed
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FOr postal PCNs, it is normal for councils to re-offer the discount when rejecting reps received within the 14 day discount period. The exception to this is Havering who never re-offer the discount, and have now made a rod for their own back, because if no discount is re-offered, it is then a total no-brainer to take them to adjudication, which gives them a load of hassle in preparing for the adjudication and paying the adjudication fee.
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Do my Reps need to be sent within 28 days of 21st November?
Just thinking about the Xmas post service if the reps cant be sent on the website......or is it 14 days? or does the 14 days only refer to paying the discounted rate on the PCN?
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Good work. I'll take a look later as I have most of the week off. Please don't send it yet.
Morning (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji112.png)
Is there any update on when this needs to be sent over please?
We're Looking to work on it tomorrow, just to get it off our desk. :)
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No probs (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji106.png)
we've learnt not to knee jerk a reaction these days or follow a boulder rolling down a slippery slope ;D
It's interesting how these PCN's are evolving into word twister traps at every given stage ::) and we're most grateful for all the help given here on FTLA & old Pepipoo too. (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji41.png)
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Good work. I'll take a look later as I have most of the week off. Please don't send it yet.
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it gives Parking options and a search box along with these under PCN Wrongly/unfairly issued:
PCN wrongly / unfairly issued
Reasons where it may appear that the PCN was issued unfairly or incorrectly.
Select a reason:
I only stopped for a few minutes
I was not at the location on the day
I was not served the PCN
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
I was only a few minutes late back to my vehicle
I was unaware of the rules
My vehicle was not outside the bay
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
There was nowhere else to park
Other
Other reasons we have received that do not fall into one of the above categories.
Select a reason:
A friend / family member recently passed away
I didn't see any signs or lines
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger
My vehicle is a taxi
The owner of the vehicle has passed away
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge your PCN, please select below:
Select a reason:
Any other reason
Tried putting "Statutory Grounds" in the search box but nothing pop's.
Theres an option in the "parking" section & "Emergency beyond Drivers control" which reads "My vehicle was Cloned" ;D not seen this many pit falls since Indiana Jones and the temple of Doom!! (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji23.png)
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Does it list the statutory grounds?
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Thank You.
I've got this PDF written up and stored and ready to go.
Enfields website challenge options are plentiful :D ;D , so just checking that the Reps need to be sent under "None of the above" and "any other reason" ??
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I make these two collateral challenges against the said PCN in terms of its invalidity:
1. It states: "...we may disregard any such representations which are received after the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice of this penalty charge notice." This is wholly wrong and flies in the face of the law.
2. It is also missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable.
Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively, there is still no clarity due to the missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be interpreted disjunctively.
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN. Should you not agree to do so, I will take the matter to the London Tribunals in the firm belief that any adjudicator would regard those statements to nullify the PCN.
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No rush. I will do a draft later today for you.
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+1.
There is another issue too as contained in the first link of my profile: missing mandatory information.
Re the reps. issue: Bromley cases. This particular one covers both issues actually. I referenced some other cases.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/bromley-code-31j-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited-cray-av/msg95559/#msg95559
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvCbvSjR_o4OeKonS24WbYL_yA7S41zz/view
So, a double whammy. I'll do a draft on this later if you like.
Yes Please.
what date will I need to send the Reps in by please?
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The strongest point is the PCN. An adjudicator may regard the other car's conduct as mitigation only. I would lead with the PCN.
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Thank you both for your input and advice, its gracefully appreciated
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+1.
There is another issue too as contained in the first link of my profile: missing mandatory information.
Re the reps. issue: Bromley cases. This particular one covers both issues actually. I referenced some other cases.
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/bromley-code-31j-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited-cray-av/msg95559/#msg95559
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wvCbvSjR_o4OeKonS24WbYL_yA7S41zz/view
So, a double whammy. I'll do a draft on this later if you like.
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So, the contravention is defined in the legislation as follows:
"Subject to sub-paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), the yellow criss-cross marking provided for at item 25 of the sign table in Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."
From the video, it seems that you entered the box junction and started to aim towards the vacant left hand lane but stopped because you were (rightly) wary of the vehicle approaching from behind you. Once the path was safe you moved into your intended exit lane on the left.
You may therefore be able to construct an argument that your stop was caused by moving vehicles (i.e. the one coming past you on the left) and that but for this vehicle (which was not stationary) you would not have stopped as you did.
It's not a guaranteed win as an adjudicator might argue you should have waited before entering as it was clear you would have to stop as you did not have the right of way.
There's also the PCN error I pointed out earlier. The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 states:
"A penalty charge notice under this section must [my emphasis]—
(a)state—
(i)the grounds on which the council or, as the case may be, Transport for London believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
(ii)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(iv)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
(vi)the amount of the increased charge;
(vii)the address to which payment of the penalty charge must be sent; and
(viii)that the person on whom the notice is served may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 1 of Schedule 1 to this Act; and
(b)specify the form in which any such representations are to be made."
So, it is mandatory for the PCN to state that you may be entitled to make representations under the form specified in the Act (set out in paragraph 1 of Schedule 1).
Specifically, this section states (amongst other things):
"The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question was served."
Your PCN quotes the deadline after which your representations may be disregarded as "the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice of this Penalty Charge Notice". This is different to the date of service of the Penalty Charge Notice which is assumed to be 2 business days after posting.
As it incorrectly states information which it must state in order to comply with the Act, it could be argued to be invalid.
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Ok, have a couple of ideas, will respond more fully a bit later
There's also an error in the PCN which misstates the deadline after which the council may disregard your representations.
Thank you MrChips (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji120.png)
Not sure how visible this box Junction is these days, could go back over to the area again if more photo's/videos will be required for reps.
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Ok, have a couple of ideas, will respond more fully a bit later
There's also an error in the PCN which misstates the deadline after which the council may disregard your representations.
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The one in the right lane, trying to move into the left before the speed of the car in the left sped up and undertook.
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Which is your car? The one that stops briefly before overtaking down the left lane? Or the one in the right lane which exits down the left lane at the end of the video?
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Sorry, see if it works here
https://imgpile.com/p/V2eAbz0
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Video setting is private so we can't see it. Please update setting on YouTube.
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Thank you.
Video link now added.
https://youtu.be/80fCeNzUtFM
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Your car reg number is on view whenever it is on the public highway, or even standing in your driveway, so it is pointless trying to redact it. Main thing to always redact is name and address. We need to see the video to assess whether an appeal to London Tribunals is likely to succeed; the council will reject whatever you submit as that is part of London councils ruthless gaming of the system to get the money in.
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Morning (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji112.png)
Not sure if this area box Junction has a history as a cash cow milking for Enfield and worth challenging? The box junction Doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than to trap drivers in it.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yVBcSmM361h3XRfP9
I'll try to post the video up once I find a way to redact the Reg numbers in it. Weather conditions were poor, dark and rainy.
also not sure if the PCN wording is challengeable?
https://ibb.co/1fFFPvTW