Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: mjlazer on November 20, 2025, 12:42:09 pm

Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 15, 2025, 11:16:44 am
Correct. Just select "Other".
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 15, 2025, 10:25:28 am
Thank you, this is extremely helpful and appreciated.

For the POPLA appeal, am I right in thinking I would need to select 'Other' as the reason rather than 'I was not the driver or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time'?
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 11, 2025, 03:18:20 pm
Here’s a tightened version with the points ordered and framed as needed: PoFA hire-vehicle failure front and centre, everything else clearly secondary/back-up. You can copy/paste and tweak dates/refs if needed.

Quote
POPLA verification number: [1753445551]
Parking Charge Notice: [2000064523643]
Operator: CP Plus Ltd t/a GroupNexus
Vehicle: OY26 VKY
Site: Moto Blyth Services
Date of event: 27/10/2025

I am the Hirer of the vehicle. I deny any liability. This appeal is made on the following grounds.

1. No Hirer/keeper liability under PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 (hire vehicles) – fatal to the charge

GroupNexus has not complied with the strict requirements of Schedule 4, paragraphs 13 and 14 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA).

What I received is plainly just a re-addressed copy of the original Notice to Keeper sent to Hertz, still purporting to rely on PoFA paragraph 9 (a notice to the registered keeper) rather than a compliant Notice to Hirer under PoFA paragraph 14. For a hire vehicle, a valid Notice to Hirer must:

• be served on the Hirer within the mandatory timescale at paragraph 14(2)(a); and
• be accompanied by all of the prescribed documents at paragraph 13(2), namely:
– a copy of the hire agreement,
– a statement of liability signed by the Hirer, and
– a copy of the original notice.

None of these documents were enclosed with the notice sent to me. The operator has also provided no evidence that any fully compliant Notice to Hirer with all enclosures was ever delivered within the statutory deadline.

Further, in their rejection letter GroupNexus state that they are “holding the registered keeper liable”. The registered keeper at the time of the event was Hertz, not me. I am the Hirer only. PoFA Schedule 4 creates a very narrow exception to the general rule that only the driver can be liable. For a hire vehicle, that exception only applies if the operator strictly complies with paragraphs 13 and 14. If they do not, then only the unknown driver could be liable and there is no lawful route to transfer liability to the Hirer.

I am under no obligation to name the driver and I will not be doing so. In the absence of full and strict compliance with Schedule 4 paragraphs 13–14, GroupNexus cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the Hirer and cannot rely on any presumption, inference or “assumption” that the Hirer was also the driver. That is precisely what PoFA was enacted to prevent.

Because the operator has failed to comply with PoFA 2012 for a hire vehicle, there is no Hirer or keeper liability. This point alone is fatal to their case and this appeal must be allowed.

2. No evidence of landowner authority and mismatch of contracting entity

The operator is put to strict proof of their standing. They must produce a current, unredacted written agreement with the landholder (not merely an agreement with an agent) that:

• identifies the land to which it applies (including Moto Blyth Services and this EV charging area);
• is in force for the material period; and
• expressly authorises the same legal entity that issued this PCN to:
– manage parking on the land,
– issue Parking Charge Notices in its own name, and
– pursue those charges through POPLA and, if they choose, the courts.

The PCN and correspondence are issued in the name “CP Plus Ltd t/a GroupNexus”. However, GroupNexus is now itself a separate limited company. CP Plus Ltd and GroupNexus Ltd are distinct legal entities. “CP Plus Ltd t/a GroupNexus” is not, in itself, a company that can hold a contract with the landowner. Any landholder agreement will be with either CP Plus Ltd or GroupNexus Ltd (or some other entity), not with a hybrid trading description.

The operator is therefore put to strict proof that:

• the landowner contract is with the same legal person that issued this PCN; and
• if the contract is with a different entity (for example CP Plus Ltd only, or GroupNexus Ltd only), there has been a clear, properly executed assignment or novation of rights that permits the PCN-issuing entity to enforce charges in its own name.

The Private Parking Single Code of Practice requires operators to have written authorisation from the landholder covering the relevant land and specifying the correct operator identity. If the operator cannot produce such authority, or if the agreement is with a different company to the one issuing this PCN, then they have no locus standi and the charge cannot be enforced.

3. Inadequate and non-prominent signage, including at the EV charging bays

The terms relied upon (a “free” 2-hour limit and tariff thereafter) were not clearly and prominently brought to the attention of motorists using the EV charging area.

The operator is put to strict proof, with contemporaneous evidence, of:

• a site plan showing the locations of all signs,
• dated photographs of each sign in situ at the material time,
• the text on those signs, and
• the font sizes of the “core” terms (time limit, charge level) on any signs visible from the EV bay used.

In particular, they must show that:

• there is a clear and legible entrance sign that can be read from a moving vehicle; and
• there are clear, prominent tariff/terms signs positioned at or immediately adjacent to the EV chargers, such that a driver using the chargers would have the key terms drawn to their attention before or while parking.

Under the BPA Code of Practice (for signage) core terms must be clear and prominent. In ParkingEye v Beavis, the Supreme Court stressed that charges are only enforceable where the signage is “clear and prominent” so that the motorist is fully informed. That standard is not met if the EV-area terms are buried in small print or not clearly displayed at all.

4. No evidence of a compliant “period of parking” and failure to allow the mandatory grace period

The operator appears to rely solely on ANPR entry and exit timestamps. Those record only the times the vehicle drove past the cameras (time on site), not the “period of parking” required by PoFA Schedule 4.

These timestamps will inevitably include non-parking time such as:
• circulation while looking for a space or charger,
• any queueing for a charger to become free,
• time spent manoeuvring, connecting and disconnecting the vehicle, and
• driving to the exit and waiting to leave.

PoFA Schedule 4 requires that the operator identifies a “period of parking”, not merely the total time between passing cameras. The operator is put to strict proof that they have:
• identified a true period of parking in accordance with PoFA, excluding all non-parking time; and
• then applied the mandatory post-parking grace period required by the applicable Code of Practice before issuing a charge.

If they cannot demonstrate both a properly defined period of parking and a correctly applied grace period at the end, they cannot show that any breach of a parking term has actually occurred.

5. Unfair and unclear consumer terms

If the operator seeks to rely on any contractual term requiring payment of £100, that term must be transparent, prominent, and fairly incorporated into any alleged contract with the driver, particularly in the specific context of EV charging.

Given:

• the EV-specific layout,
• the lack of clearly-prominent warnings at the chargers themselves, and
• the operator’s failure (to date) to show that any driver using the EV charger would have seen and accepted a clear offer to pay £100,

any purported agreement to pay this sum is not transparent or fairly incorporated, and is unfair under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The operator is put to strict proof that the alleged contractual term satisfies the requirements of transparency and prominence.

Conclusion

GroupNexus has failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 for hire vehicles and therefore cannot transfer liability to me as Hirer. The driver is not identified, and without strict PoFA compliance there is no lawful basis to hold the Hirer or keeper liable or to presume that the Hirer was the driver. That is a complete defence and this appeal should be allowed on that ground alone.

In the alternative, even if POPLA were to look beyond that fatal defect, the operator has also failed to demonstrate landowner authority, adequate and prominent signage (especially at the EV chargers), a properly defined “period of parking” with a mandatory post-parking grace period, or fair and transparent consumer terms.

For all of these reasons, I respectfully request that POPLA uphold this appeal and direct the operator to cancel the Parking Charge.

Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 11, 2025, 02:45:05 pm
Next up, this is the POPLA appeal I've drafted based on examples I've found. Any feedback more than welcome. I have about a month to submit it.



Evidence to upload:




POPLA verification number [1753445551]

Parking charge notice [2000064523643]



I am the hirer of the vehicle. I deny any liability. The appeal is allowed on the following grounds.

1. No keeper/hirer liability under POFA 2012 schedule 4 (hire vehicles)

GroupNexus has not complied with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 paragraphs 13–14. What I received is plainly a re-addressed copy of the original Notice to Keeper to Hertz that still purports to rely on paragraph 9. For a hire vehicle, a valid Notice to Hirer must be served with all of the prescribed documents:


None of these documents were enclosed. In addition, the operator has provided no evidence that any Notice to Hirer (with all enclosures) was delivered within the statutory timescale in para 14(2)(a). POPLA will be able to see from the operator’s own rejection letter that they assert “we are holding the registered keeper liable”. The registered keeper is Hertz, not me. In the absence of full compliance with Sch 4 paras 13–14, the operator cannot transfer liability to the hirer/keeper. I am not naming the driver.

This ground alone requires that the appeal be allowed.

2. No evidence of landowner authority

The operator is put to strict proof of a current, unredacted contract with the landowner (not merely a site agreement with an agent) that:


If such authority is not produced, the charge is invalid under the BPA Code of Practice (section 7).

3. Inadequate and non-prominent signage, including at EV charging bays

The terms relied upon (free 2-hour limit and tariff thereafter) were not prominently brought to the attention of drivers using the EV charging area. The operator must supply a contemporaneous signage plan and dated photos showing: entrance signage legibility from a moving vehicle, the font sizes of the core terms, and the signs positioned at the EV chargers. Under the BPA Code (sections 19 & 21), core terms must be clear and prominent. In ParkingEye v Beavis, the Supreme Court stressed that charges are only enforceable where the signage is “clear and prominent”. That standard is not met here.

4. No evidence of a compliant “period of parking” and failure to allow grace/consideration periods

The times shown are ANPR entry/exit times, not the mandatory “period of parking” required by PoFA Sch 4. They will include circulation, queueing for a charger, connecting/disconnecting, and exiting. The BPA Code requires both a reasonable consideration period on arrival and a minimum 10-minute grace period on leaving. The operator is put to strict proof that both were allowed and that the alleged overstay is not merely ANPR timestamp padding.

5. Unfair/unclear consumer terms

If the operator relies on any alleged contractual term, it must be transparent and prominent. Given the EV-charging context and the absence of prominent warnings at the chargers themselves, any purported agreement to pay £100 is not transparent or fairly incorporated (Consumer Rights Act 2015). The operator is put to strict proof.

Conclusion

Because GroupNexus failed to comply with PoFA Schedule 4 for hire vehicles, they cannot transfer liability to me as hirer/keeper. The remaining points (authority, signage, and grace periods) give further independent reasons to allow the appeal. I request that POPLA uphold this appeal and direct the operator to cancel the charge.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 11, 2025, 02:34:15 pm
Legend, thank you that's more concise and it's gone straight over to the Hertz Collections team.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 11, 2025, 02:24:19 pm
You are telling Hertz Collections that you formally dispute their £42 “administration fee” and you do not authorise payment. You explain that this is not a statutory fine but a private Parking Charge Notice on private land, that Hertz’s wording and pricing are inconsistent and unclear, and that no fine was actually paid by Hertz – they simply passed your details to GroupNexus, which is minimal administration.

You also make it clear that the underlying PCN is in active dispute and will be escalated to POPLA, so it is premature and unfair for Hertz to pursue their own admin fee now. You then set out what you expect them to do: cancel the fee as a goodwill resolution, confirm the account is on hold and will not be passed to any third party while the dispute is open, confirm Hertz will not pay or settle the PCN on your behalf, or, if they refuse to cancel, provide the exact contractual clause they rely on and a full breakdown of how £42 is justified. Finally, you ask for their complaints procedure and confirmation that this is logged as a formal complaint.

Here is a slightly better adaptation of the email you should send Hertz:

Quote
Dear Hertz Collections,

I dispute invoice 24366916 for £42 and do not authorise payment. Please place this account on hold while you review.

This is not a fine or a penalty. It is a speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company. GroupNexus is not an authority and no statutory penalty has been incurred. As Keeper, Hertz elected to transfer liability to me as Hirer under the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Once that transfer has been made, GroupNexus cannot pursue Hertz under any circumstance and no liability can revert to you. Hertz has paid nothing and is not at risk of any future liability.

Your administration fee is unsupported. Your correspondence and website contain inconsistent amounts and misleading references to “authorities” and “fines”, none of which apply. Passing on the hirer’s details is minimal administration and does not justify a £42 fee. The underlying speculative invoice is being actively contested with GroupNexus and will be escalated to POPLA. Pursuing an administration fee at this stage is premature.

I require the following:

1. Cancellation of the £42 administration fee.
2. Written confirmation that the account is on hold and will not be referred to any third party while this dispute is open.
3. If you refuse cancellation, the exact rental agreement clause relied upon and an itemised breakdown of the actual time and cost incurred to justify £42.
4. Your formal complaints procedure and confirmation that this email is logged as a formal complaint.

I look forward to confirmation that the administration fee has been cancelled or, alternatively, a full response to each point above.

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 11, 2025, 02:01:38 pm
So, now Hertz are chasing me for this £42 "admin fee" and telling me it needs to be paid in 7 days. This is the suggest response I've found. Is this an appropriate action?

EDIT: Sorry for the quality, not sure why ImgBB compressed it so much and copying the email as text just creates a blob of text with no paragraphs for some reason. Let me know if you can't read it.

(https://i.ibb.co/ksCng0J9/Screenshot-2025-12-11-at-14-00-04.png)
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 10, 2025, 03:20:49 pm
You have 33 days from the appeal rejection date to submit your POPLA appeal, so no rush.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on December 10, 2025, 09:29:27 am
Claptrap, as expected.

I suggest you find POPLA appeals on the same basis here on the forum, and if you post what you intend to send first you may get some improvements suggested.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 10, 2025, 08:54:25 am
Somebody has put a quid in GroupNexus because their responses are flying out. Here's the latest response to my previous email which includes a POPLA code. I will look up next steps/templates, but assuming I now start the appeal with POPLA?

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your correspondence relating to your Parking Charge.

The Charge was issued and the signage is displayed in compliance with The British Parking Association’s Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice and all relevant laws and regulations.

Clear signs at the entrance of this site and throughout inform drivers of the requirement to pay for parking in excess of the free 2 hour period, and it is not possible to access any part of the premises without passing multiple signs. Your representations are not considered a mitigating circumstance for appeal.

We confirm the Charge was issued under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As no driver details have been provided, we are holding the registered keeper of the vehicle liable.

In light of this, on this occasion, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.

We can confirm that we will hold the Charge at the current rate of £60 for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence. If no payment is received within this period, and no further appeal to POPLA is made, the Charge will escalate and further costs may be added.

Please find below the payment options: [Payment details]

----------

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. This correspondence represents our final stance on the matter and we will therefore not enter into any further correspondence.

CORRESPONDENCE RECEIVED FOLLOWING THE REJECTION OF AN APPEAL WILL NOT CHANGE THE OUTCOME OR EXTEND THE DATE IN WHICH PAYMENT SHOULD BE MADE.

Although we have now rejected your appeal, you may still have recourse to appeal to Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA), an independent appeals service. An appeal to POPLA must be made within 28 days of the date of this correspondence.  POPLA will only consider cases on the grounds that the Parking Charge exceeded the appropriate amount, that the vehicle was not improperly parked or had been stolen, or that you were otherwise not liable for the Parking Charge.  To appeal to POPLA, please go to their website http://www.popla.co.uk and follow the instructions. If you would rather deal with this matter by post, please contact our Appeals Office and we will send you the necessary paperwork.

Your POPLA reference number is: [Reference number]

Please note that if your appeal does not relate to the above criteria or is rejected by POPLA for any reason, you will no longer qualify for payment at the reduced rate. POPLA will not consider any cases where payment has been made. You must pay the charge or appeal to POPLA, you cannot do both.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsman-services.org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal.  However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service.  As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

Yours faithfully,
CP Plus  Ltd
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 09, 2025, 02:17:59 pm
Thanks to jfollows and especially b789 for the tailored response. Both of your help is hugely appreciated.

I didn't imagine that there would be a way to fight back against these predatory PCNs but I'm learning so much.

I've sent the response so let's see what they say.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 09, 2025, 01:41:45 pm
I'd respond with the following:

Quote
Dear CP Plus / GroupNexus,

Thank you for your template request that I “forward the full name and address of the driver”. The fact that you sent this at all confirms that nobody at your organisation has actually read – let alone understood – my appeal or Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

To spell it out in simple words of one syllable, where possible: you did not send a compliant Notice to Hirer. You simply re-addressed the original Notice to Keeper to me, still waffling on about paragraph 9, and failed to comply with the strict requirements of paragraphs 13 and 14, including the provision of the prescribed hire documents and a proper statement of liability. That is fatal to any attempt to transfer liability from the unknown driver to me as hirer/keeper.

In law, therefore:

- You have no Hirer liability;
- I have no obligation whatsoever to name the driver; and
- Your “14 days on hold” is as meaningless as the rest of your boilerplate.

I decline your invitation to assist you in pursuing a claim you have no legal basis to enforce. You already have my position. You are now put to strict choice:

- Cancel the Parking Charge; or
- Treat this as a reference to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram (1971) and act accordingly.

There will be no further correspondence on this nonsense unless it contains either a cancellation or a POPLA code.

Yours faithfully,

[Name]
Hirer of the vehicle
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on December 09, 2025, 09:19:20 am
A lot of them do this, they are fishing for you to reveal the driver’s identity, you can ignore or you will find a reply you can send elsewhere on the forum.
They will next reject your appeal “after careful consideration” or similar claptrap, along with a POPLA code. They will make no mention in their rejection notice of the NtH failing to be the basis for transfer of liability. It’s what they do, they ignore anything valid because they know a significant percentage of people just pay up.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 09, 2025, 09:14:36 am
I've received a reply from GroupNexus (who are still signing off as CP Plus Ltd).

It's almost like... they didn't read my email—which very explicitly stated I would not be supplying any names.

They are giving me 14 days. Will they automatically reject the appeal after that and provide the POPLA code?

Quote
Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your correspondence relating to your Parking Charge.

The representations stated in your correspondence have been noted and considered. Please forward to us the full name and address of the driver at the time this charge was incurred so that we can update our records accordingly.

We are placing this Charge on hold for 14 days from the date of this email to allow you to provide the details requested.

Yours faithfully,

CP Plus Ltd
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 05:57:25 pm
Correct, it is exactly the same letter they sent to Hertz but it's addressed to me this time.

Thank you, I'll send the appeal now and let you know what they say.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 03, 2025, 05:54:30 pm
Is that notice you received addressed to you or is it just a copy of the NtK sent to Hertz? If it is addressed to you, then it is GroupNexus incompetence and as long as the driver is not identified, they have no lawful way to hold you liable as the Hirer.

So, if that notice is addressed to you then you can appeal, only as the Hirer with the following:

Quote
I am the hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your Parking Charge. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client, Moto Blyth.

What you have sent me is not a compliant Notice to Hirer (NtH) under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. It is plainly just a copy of the Notice to Keeper previously sent to Hertz, re-addressed to me and still purporting to rely on paragraph 9. That is not how liability is transferred to a Hirer.

You have failed to comply with the strict requirements of PoFA Schedule 4 paragraphs 13 and 14. As your NtH does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. GroupNexus has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. GroupNexus have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN

No initial appeal is ever successful and there is no need to go into greater detail at this stage. All you need from them is the POPLA code which will be valid for 33 days from the date they reject the appeal.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 03:40:36 pm
That’s a Notice to Keeper, not to Hirer. You were not the Registered Keeper at the time of parking, as claimed.

Do you know why GroupNexus has just sent the same thing they sent to Hertz (NtK) rather than a NtH, which I expected to be the next step in the process?
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 03:38:32 pm
Update: I submitted a complaint to the landowner, Moto Services Ltd., using a successful template I found here on the board.

This was the response I got (literally a few hours later):

(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/db/2c/7f/ME18C1IK_t.png) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME18C1IK)
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 02:53:34 pm
Seriously? Take your tin-foil hat off and show us all the dates and times on that Notice. These firms issue over 40,000+ PCNs every single day of the year. Even if your perverted fantasy about some team of hooded "Yoofs" in a dark room somewhere scouring the internet for posts about a specific PCN were founded, so bloody what? They cannot change anything because the unlawful behaviour is exposed. What on earth do you imagine they could do if they were able to identify your PCN?

Mind you, this is exactly what a GroupNexus asset would say...
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 02:46:18 pm
Wow, apologies to all. I thought I was being prudent erring on the side of caution.

I just assumed that it would be best to redact anything that could be linked to the open case.

This is my first time doing this. I can assure you I am not a conspiracy theorist or have perverted fantasies(???)

But, easily fixed (see below).

So, if this is a NtK not NtH then, given I received it only this morning, am I meant to be waiting longer for a NtH?

(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/d8/a3/4f/ME18C00V_t.jpeg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME18C00V)
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on December 03, 2025, 02:19:54 pm
Seriously? Take your tin-foil hat off and show us all the dates and times on that Notice. These firms issue over 40,000+ PCNs every single day of the year. Even if your perverted fantasy about some team of hooded "Yoofs" in a dark room somewhere scouring the internet for posts about a specific PCN were founded, so bloody what? They cannot change anything because the unlawful behaviour is exposed. What on earth do you imagine they could do if they were able to identify your PCN?

(https://i.ibb.co/BKFWn7Hk/DALL-E-2025-01-27-14-45-55-A-dimly-lit-room-with-a-group-of-hooded-youths-huddled-over-glowing-compu.jpg)

Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on December 03, 2025, 01:54:20 pm
That’s a Notice to Keeper, not to Hirer, they’re not “snooping the board” and removing times and dates is not helpful.
https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/

You were not the Registered Keeper at the time of parking, as claimed.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 01:22:44 pm
For completeness can you show us the Notice to Hirer?

Sure, I've removed any identifying information in case they're snooping this board.

I saw elsewhere that Plan A was a complaint to the client landowner. Shall I submit the appeal, as is, regardless and then also make a complaint to the client landowner?

(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/a9/d4/04/ME18BXF6_t.jpeg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME18BXF6)

(https://thumbs4.imagebam.com/eb/99/72/ME18BXF7_t.jpeg) (https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME18BXF7)
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on December 03, 2025, 01:06:19 pm
Yes.
21 days is two working days after posting. Probably 4 December if you work it through, but sounds OK whatever.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: DWMB2 on December 03, 2025, 01:05:55 pm
Exactly.

For completeness can you show us the Notice to Hirer?
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on December 03, 2025, 01:00:16 pm
Okay, here we go. The NtH has been received today, Dec 3, and was issued on Nov 24.

Given Hertz forwarded the PCN to me on 12 Nov, I'm assuming that put the GroupNexus deadline at 21 days from that email. That means I received the NtH exactly 21 days later.

They did not include any other documents other than the PCN.

So, if I am correct in thinking, I now need to appeal using the 'I am the Hirer...' message shared by @b789 and then just wait for the next update?
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: b789 on November 21, 2025, 08:24:37 am
The Hertz admin fee is a dispute between you, the Hirer and Hertz. You will need to refer to your hire agreement and show us the EXACT wording about parking charges. It is already obvious that they are using terminology that is likely in breach of their contract with the Hirer.

As for the Parking Charge Notice (PCN), you cannot respond to it until you receive the Notice to Hirer (NtH) addressed to you in your name. GroupNexus have no idea who the driver is and the can only hold the Hirer liable if they have fully complied with PoFA 2012. They never do, which is why an NtH PCN is a golden ticket as long as the drivers identity is not blabbed, inadvertently or otherwise.

If Hertz only transferred liability to the Hirer on 12 November, the Hirer must receive the NtH within 21 days. Not only does the NtH have to be received (“given”) within 21 days, it must also contain copies of the hire agreement etc. in order to be able to hold the Hirer liable if the driver is not identified.

Irrespective of the above, as long as you follow the advice here, you will not be paying a penny to GroupNexus. For now, there is nothing you can do until you receive the NtH in your name. When you do, follow this advice for the appeal:

There is no legal obligation on the known Hirer (the recipient of the Notice to Hirer (NtH)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtH is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known Hirer.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. GroupNexus has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtH can only hold the driver liable. GroupNexus have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on November 20, 2025, 02:03:02 pm
You are waiting for a notice to hirer addressed to you from the creditor parking company, GroupNexus, yes.
If you update this thread with progress you will get advice on your specific case. However you should spend the interim time to research the forum for similar cases so you have an idea of what to expect.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on November 20, 2025, 01:55:16 pm
Okay, that's good to know.

So I understand, is the 'notice to hirer' the letter/email I'm waiting for from GroupNexus with the new NtH deadline in it?

Also, I'm new here so just wanted to check what you meant when you said I "won’t end up paying a penny if you follow advice here". Is there an existing process which we're recommended to follow or do you mean following the case-specific advice in my own threads?
Title: Re: What does a 'charge back' to Hertz for admin fee mean?
Post by: mjlazer on November 20, 2025, 01:50:37 pm
No, I didn't dispute the charge. Not sure why AMEX would have done that on my behalf?

According to Google: "Initiating a credit card chargeback is generally not the correct procedure for disputing a PCN and can be a serious criminal offence in the UK, depending on circumstances. The enforcement authority will likely treat the debt as unpaid and escalate the case through the process above, leading to significantly higher costs and potential legal action."

So, could this be potentially bad for me?

Also, any idea what a 'force charge' is and why they talk in past tense when they say, "payment was required" within 90 days because they then provide a payment link.
Title: Re: What does a 'charge back' to Hertz for admin fee mean?
Post by: DWMB2 on November 20, 2025, 01:23:07 pm
A chargeback is what happens when a payment is disputed by a card provider. This is usually initiated by the customer contacting their bank/card provider to dispute a transaction. Did you do this?
Title: What does a 'charge back' to Hertz for admin fee mean?
Post by: mjlazer on November 20, 2025, 01:01:42 pm
Also, when I asked Hertz to waive the admin fee for reasons that are not relevant here they replied with some vague email but in there it said:

Quote
As per our rental conditions, if Hertz is required to pay any road tolls, fines, charges, or associated costs, we reserve the right to charge you an administration fee.

Upon reviewing our records, I can confirm that the amount of £42.00 was initially billed to your account. However, we received a chargeback from your credit card company, which placed the invoice on force charge. As a result, payment was required within 90 days before the matter was transferred to our external debt collection agency.

Can someone explain what this means in layman's terms and if it is at all significant? I am planning on appealing the PCN and if successful they agreed to waive the admin fee but if they are already trying to take it then I'm not sure if I should be doing something differently.

Thanks
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on November 20, 2025, 12:59:06 pm
It’s not your deadline, it’s the registered keeper’s.

The process is really simple, as I outlined, but the people in hire companies who administer this often get it totally wrong and make up nonsense.

Your own notice to hirer will have its own “deadlines” but you can ignore them because you won’t pay a penny.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on November 20, 2025, 12:57:09 pm
So the timeline so far is:

Date of alleged offence: 27 Oct (24 days ago)
Date of PCN issue: 04 Nov (17 days ago)
Initial deadline to pay reduced rate: 18 Nov (2 days ago)
Date of Hertz forwarding PCN: 12 Nov (8 days ago)

I am hoping that, despite the 'relevant authority' not getting in touch that I am not being held to the original deadline which is now passed.
Title: Re: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: jfollows on November 20, 2025, 12:47:39 pm
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4

14 days for NtK
28 days for keeper to respond with documents
21 days to serve notice to hirer

If Hertz miss their 28 day deadline, they become liable.

You reply to a notice to hirer sent to you. In the likely event the required documents are missing, you have identified your appeal.

Your appeal will be rejected, because they always are, but you won’t end up paying a penny if you follow advice here.

You have not been named as driver, you have been named as hirer and you must not identify the driver at any time.
Title: How does the PCN deadline work while transferring liability from Hertz to hirer/keeper?
Post by: mjlazer on November 20, 2025, 12:42:09 pm
Hello all

I was informed by Hertz 8 days ago about a PCN from GroupNexus that had been issued. Hertz attached the parking charge notice and it said I had 14 days to pay before the charge went up from £60 to £100.

The letter said, "We have provided your contact details to the relevant authority, to transfer liability to you for this fine. The authority will contact your directly to recover payment for this fine. In addition we have applied our standard administration fee of £ 42.00 for the processing of this violation. The authority will contact you directly in due course."

1. I have not heard anything from GroupNexus in the past 8 days. So, will they issue me a new PCN with a new deadline or do I have to still pay before the 14 day deadline issued to Hertz?

2. When Hertz say, "We have provided your contact details to the relevant authority", does that mean they have named me as the driver? I ask because I originally 'consulted' ChatGPT and they said I could appeal the fine with the below letter:

Quote
I am the hirer/keeper of vehicle [REG]. Hertz has passed my details as the hirer/keeper. This is not an admission as to the identity of the driver. I will not be naming the driver.

You cannot transfer liability because you have not complied with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 for hire vehicles (paras 13–14). A valid Notice to Hirer must be accompanied by:

 1. a copy of the hire agreement
 2. a statement of liability signed by the hirer
 3. a copy of the original notice

These documents were not enclosed with your notice. Therefore there is no hirer/keeper liability and the charge must be cancelled.

Without prejudice to the above, signage at the EV charging area did not make any 2-hour limit prominent or clear, the vehicle was actively charging, and any overstay calculation must include the consideration and grace periods required by the BPA Code.

Please cancel this charge. If you refuse, please supply a POPLA verification code.

Is this a worthwhile pursuit or am I wasting my time and should just pay the charge?

Thanks!