Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 07:45:18 pm

Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Hippocrates on December 01, 2025, 01:41:04 pm
I am on the case as of today.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Hippocrates on November 27, 2025, 02:36:58 pm
The actual signs are here, at the junction of South Street with Victoria Road 81 metres away: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zy5HHHxUHZftamWw5
Note that the signs on GSV allow access.
I have just accessed a PCN. No signage is included in their evidence and the PCN is invalid for various reasons.

1. The PCN does not particularise which vehicles.
2. Similarly, neither do the images provided.
3. The PCN is invalid as it is missing mandatory information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable.
Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
4. The PCN contains one invalid ground re the Traffic Order being invalid.
5. Your website contains 3 invalid grounds.

In light of the above, please cancel the PCN. Should you not agree to do so, I will take the matter to the Tribunal.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Hippocrates on November 27, 2025, 02:34:19 pm
I am offering to represent you. PM sent.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 27, 2025, 02:12:22 pm
Hello Hippocrates.

It was registered on the 19 November 2025. I received an update from them on the 21 November with a date.

I used the information that I could find from your various posts.

I've sent Havering a note on their enquiry system to let them know that I have a date for the tribunal. I'm confused about how they work - surely they have information that it's been sent to the Tribunal.

Sorry to hear you received a PCN
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Hippocrates on November 27, 2025, 12:24:57 pm
When was the Notice of Appeal registered? I am happy to assist with this.

As fate would have it, I have just received a PCN myself.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 27, 2025, 11:14:24 am
Thank you!

https://imgpile.com/p/uUkamyu

I don't know how to copy and paste pictures here
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: John U.K. on November 27, 2025, 11:11:20 am
I've merged the threads.

Please post up:
the Charge Certificate
the letter/e-mail from L Tribunals giving date of hearing.


(only redact yr name and address from docs - leave all else in)
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 27, 2025, 10:49:53 am
Hello.

Please can someone advise me. I have a live case on here already but unsure whether to add this on or start a new post.
My challenge was rejected and following advice on here I appealed to the London Tribunals and have a date for the hearing.
I have now received a charge certificate telling me to pay £240 within 14 days of the day of the letter (24/11/25).
It gives a number to make an enquiry about the charge certificate but it's just an automated message. And then on the back it says ' Please do not make payment if you want to challenge the PCN'.
What do I do?
Thank you
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 19, 2025, 04:51:50 pm
I think the wording is correct in my case:

The penalty charge notice is £160.00
The penalty charge must be paid not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice.

A reduced charge of £80.00 is payable in the following circumstances:
If the penalty charge is paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice, the penalty charge will be reduced by 50%.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 19, 2025, 03:47:15 pm
Thank you Hippocrates. I'll have a look at the link. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with it - which is why I've left it until the last minute.

The form for the online London Tribunals asks me to write. Is this where I write what I previously wrote to Havering? Or do I write extra? Can I add this later. Today would be the deadline.

Kind regards
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Hippocrates on November 19, 2025, 12:23:27 pm
I know this location and won a case re the PCN wording last week. The issue is in my first link of my profile.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Incandescent on November 18, 2025, 11:02:34 pm
Thanks incandescent. Is it supposed to be a certain number of metres away. I apologise for asking a daft question? Is it helpful for me?
Yes, because the location on your PCN is not the location where the restriction is announced to motorists by the signs. They are just too mean to move the camera !
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 10:48:35 pm
Thanks incandescent. Is it supposed to be a certain number of metres away. I apologise for asking a daft question? Is it helpful for me?
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 10:45:52 pm
(deleted my comment as I had confused myself)
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: Incandescent on November 18, 2025, 10:17:45 pm
The actual signs are here, at the junction of South Street with Victoria Road 81 metres away: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zy5HHHxUHZftamWw5
Note that the signs on GSV allow access.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 08:55:11 pm
Thanks stamfordman for the case info  - I've just looked at the pictures from that pcn and that was my exact location too!
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 08:41:52 pm
Thanks stamfordman. No, they haven't offered the discount. Havering's policy is not to.

I've added the pictures and video to my initial post.

Many thanks for replying.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: stamfordman on November 18, 2025, 08:33:25 pm
I take it Havering hasn't reoffered the discount in which case just register the appeal at London Tribunals right now - don't wait. Nothing to lose. You can upload materials later.

Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 08:28:26 pm
Thank you stamfordman.

I was going towards Queens hospital. I'm not from the area but the video would show me driving. As I said I'm hyper vigilant about bus lanes and traffic signs in general so I'm certain I didn't see anything which is why I appealed it initially knowing that Havering would increase it to £160.
Title: Re: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: stamfordman on November 18, 2025, 08:02:57 pm
You need to post the materials.

This location I think has successful appeals on grounds such as the below - where were you going?

--------------

Case reference   2250331703
Appellant   Mebal Kisakye
Authority   London Borough of Havering
VRM   YB18 EPC
   
PCN Details
PCN   HG61724226
Contravention date   07 Feb 2025
Contravention time   13:12:00
Contravention location   South Street / Eastern Road
Penalty amount   N/A
Contravention   Fail comply prohibition on certain types vehicle
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   20 Oct 2025
Adjudicator   Carl Teper
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons   The Appellant has not attended the video link hearing. They were notified that the hearing would take place today at 8:45am by correspondence dated 8 July 2025.
I considered adjourning the appeal but decided that it was not in the interests of justice to delay the hearing of this appeal further.
The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle failed to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles) when in South Street / Eastern Road on 7 February 2025 at 13:12.
The Appellant's case at the representation stage was that the signage was inadequate. In their Notice of Appeal they argue that the delay of a response to their representations was unconscionably long to allow for enforcement of this PCN.
I have allowed this appeal for the following reasons:
First, I find that the Authority has failed to prove the signage in this case to the requisite standard.
Second. the CCTV footage does not show the vehicle passing any regulatory signage (or even the back of any signage) and, whilst not fatal to proving a contravention, it does not allow the Adjudicator to see the positioning of the signage on the day in question if a motorist queries it.
Third, I am not prepared to rely on library photographs, which are dated 11 August 2024, I find their evidential value to be too weak.
Fourth, I find that the library photographic stills show little resemblance to the location as seen in the CCTV footage.
Fifth, there is no statutory time limit in relation to a Notice of Rejection in relation to moving traffic case (parking contraventions have a time limit of 56 day). However, an Authority is still required to act with due diligence and in a timely manner.
Sixth, the PCN in this case was in relation to a contravention on 7 February 2025. The PCN was issued on 21 February 2025 and representations were received by the Authority from the Appellant on the 4 March 2025. The Notice of Rejection is dated 2 July 2024.
I find that the time taken to deal with this case is not justified and is excessive. Previous cases have found that delays in excess of 3 months without a sufficient explanation to be unacceptable.
Accordingly, I find that the excessive delay, without a full explanation and comprehensive account of systems put in place to show the Authority acted with due diligence, renders this Penalty Charge Notice unenforceable.
I find, as a fact, that the Authority failed to act with due diligence and in a timely manner in this particular case.
The key case of Paul Richard Davis - v - The Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea (case number 1970182813) where this matter was dealt with comprehensively by the Adjudicator Mr G Hickinbottom (as he then was), is good case law for the requirement of an Authority to act with due diligence.
The appeal is allowed.
Title: PCN Havering driving in a bus lane South St Rm1 Eastern Rd RM1
Post by: pcnhaver on November 18, 2025, 07:45:18 pm
Hello.

I should have read the 'read this first' before I appealed against my PCN.

I received a PCN at the beginning of August.
Contravention occured 22/07/2025 - 'your vehicle was observed in South St RM1 / Eastern Rd RM1 at 17.46 hours for failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicles (buses and cycles only)
I read bits of information on here and thought I could appeal myself without wasting anyone's time.
But I did shoot myself in the foot by thinking I could deal with it myself.

Received a notice of rejection of formal representations dated 23/10/2025.
Is it worth taking to a tribunal? I genuinely believe there was no signage as I'm hyper vigilant about getting fines.

This new letter states 'I have carefully considered the mitigating circumstances described in your representation, but do not consider they justify the cancellation of the correctly issued Penalty Charge Notice. The signage does not have to be shown in the footage for the PCN to be valid'.

I've only just remembered that it said I have to appeal of pay within 28 days. Which would be by the 19th November 2025.

I would appreciate any help please.

Pictures and video -
https://imgpile.com/p/koonqml#GMHOZwT
https://imgpile.com/p/koonqml#cwMCvQe
https://imgpile.com/p/koonqml#g2JA3hg
https://imgpile.com/p/koonqml#o3L3c6M video

Initial PCN received: https://imgpile.com/m/C1E5sOO and https://imgpile.com/m/lT1Ktyy