Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: flavenisl on November 16, 2025, 01:03:12 am
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Islington has much clearer event day parking signs.
Well...
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/islington-code-11-parked-without-payment-of-the-parking-charge-highbury-station-/msg118411/#msg118411
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And you're supposed to read the entry sign and take in a great wodge of text with the event date at the bottom, whilst usually turning your vehicle and looking out for other vehicles and suicidal cyclists and pedestrians ! Give me strenght, oh Lord !
What they could also do, is place a phone number on the parking bay signs, that one can call and receive an automated recording of the next event date. This would be entirely possible, but of course, less PCN penalty money would come in, so obviously they won't do anything to affect their Nice Little Earner.
Exactly! I have cycled and walked past that sign many more times than I have driven Padt it, and honestly, I don't even notice it then! Its high, its hectic, its silly.
They really need a revamp of their signs. Islington has much clearer event day parking signs. It's mad really. There must have been at least 6 other cars on the street the day I got my ticket, and I'm sure that very, very few off them would have taken it all the way to tribunal.
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And you're supposed to read the entry sign and take in a great wodge of text with the event date at the bottom, whilst usually turning your vehicle and looking out for other vehicles and suicidal cyclists and pedestrians ! Give me strenght, oh Lord !
What they could also do, is place a phone number on the parking bay signs, that one can call and receive an automated recording of the next event date. This would be entirely possible, but of course, less PCN penalty money would come in, so obviously they won't do anything to affect their Nice Little Earner.
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Hi both,
Please see new link: https://imgpile.com/p/EmPhz46
First two images are today's letter via email giving a "discretionary cancellation" of the PCN.
Image 3-6 is the first rejection (all of my 'argument' is in there)
Images 7-9 are the notice of rejection of representation, again with my argument within there.
Hope that is helpful.
In today's email they say that they have successfully won cases like this at tribunal. I'd be interested to see those.
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Have we seen your formal reps and the NOR?
My own view is that the sign is not formatted correctly. The lower panel does not modify the conditions above, it changes them fundamentally*. As such, IMO a different format is required.
*- but we haven't seen the council's reasoning.
Normally 'event' or whatever simply extends the existing controls, it doesn't create wholly different conditions which the wording in this case, taken at face value, creates i.e. restrictions on permit holders 'T' and others, not just others.
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To make sure, can you please post the advice letter, redacting your name and address, of course.
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You've got a DNC advice, (DNC = Do Not Contest), so you have won your case, well done !
Whoop whoop! Thank you so much @Incandescent, and also @StanfordMan too!
Appreciate your advice (and the person on reddit who initially signposted me here).
I wonder how much money they make out of people paying.... probably enough that they can soon make some clearer signs.
Although, Incandescent, originally you said you thought the sign was clear that payment is due on a weekend, and I honestly still am not sure why you think that!
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You've got a DNC advice, (DNC = Do Not Contest), so you have won your case, well done !
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I suggest you wait until tomorrow pl.
Ohh,,,, I have news - there is a documented added to the case.
"Environmental and Traffic Adjudicators
DO NOT CONTEST FORM
LBHF
We do not wish to contest any of the PCNs on the following appeal
Blah blah blah my details
We have decided to cancel this PCN, and have informed the appellant in writing."
I assume this means that H&F won't be contesting and that the PCN is cancelled? That's what it looks like to me, but then again, I don't think their sign tells me I have to pay to park on a weekend. Can anyone confirm for me, please?
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...Some people have suggested that it is clear that you must pay when the event day is on a weekend, however they have been unable to explain to me how it is clear. If your opinion is that it is clear there is a requirement to pay on a weekend event day I would love to hear why you say that...
Further to my previous post I suspect the correct answer is that unless an individual plate refers to a specific day or days, you must take it to mean all seven days.
So in your case although the top plate refers to "Mon - Fri", the bottom plate doesn't mention any specific day or days so you must interpret it to mean all week.
Personally I find it unclear and confusing, as I suspect many people do.
good luck
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Hello there,
I am keen to resurrect this thread, as I have my tribunal hearing next week.
I am still of the belief that the roadside sign at the parking bay does not indicate a requirement to pay when an event day is on a weekend. Some people have suggested that it is clear that you must pay when the event day is on a weekend, however they have been unable to explain to me how it is clear. If your opinion is that it is clear there is a requirement to pay on a weekend event day I would love to hear why you say that.
Any advice for the tribunal?
Thanks
FWIW - I'm no expert! :) - I would agree with you that if the bottom plate is intended to apply to weekends it is at best ambiguous and at worst misleading.
The top plate only refers to "Mon - Fri 9am to 5pm".
The bottom plate refers to "Event Days only" without stating any days of the week, so I would understand it only to be qualifying the top plate and therefore only applying to the days Monday to Friday.
If it's meant to be imposing an additional restriction covering weekends it should say so - eg "Event days (Mon - Sun) only..."
(I won't comment on whether or not the entry signs to the zone correctly identified the match day in question)
But don't rely on my understanding and support as you'll probably lose!
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I suggest you wait until tomorrow pl.
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The Tribunal's Directions as regards service on appellants of Authorities' Evidence:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Practice%20Direction%2002-2025%20on%20behalf%20of%20ETA%2019%20August%202025%20-%20Service%20of%20evidence%20by%20Enforcement%20Authorities.pdf
In short, 5 days before hearing. You should receive today or tomorrow.
IMO, let's wait until you have it.
In the meantime, read the Traffic Signs Manual on Shared Use Bay signing:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
Thank you. And what if I haven't heard anything by tomorrow?
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The Tribunal's Directions as regards service on appellants of Authorities' Evidence:
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Practice%20Direction%2002-2025%20on%20behalf%20of%20ETA%2019%20August%202025%20-%20Service%20of%20evidence%20by%20Enforcement%20Authorities.pdf
In short, 5 days before hearing. You should receive today or tomorrow.
IMO, let's wait until you have it.
In the meantime, read the Traffic Signs Manual on Shared Use Bay signing:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
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Yes, I went quiet - there was nothing to add, I was waiting for the tribunal.
Tribunal is via video on 26th June
I haven't received an evidence pack. How does that typically arrive? The only information I have from the council is the original PCN and the two rejection letters from the original appeals. Nothing since then, and nothing since I applied to the tribunal.
This is what I have submitted for the appeal:
Further information about the appeal: I am appealing this decision for two reasons:
1. The notification that the Sunday in question, Sunday 24th August 2025 being an
event day was inadequate. There is inadequate signage within the local area of the
areas of the Controlled Parking Zone that has additional event day parking restrictions.
The only visible signage on entry to the zone is located on a busy crossroads controlled
by traffic lights, containing yellow box markings with pedestrian crossings, road works,
and a requirement to merge following the crossroads. Due to the positioning of the
event day signage, this is easily concealed to a car driver by larger vehicles .
Additionally, there was no indication on the street itself that the vehicle was parked in
that the day in question was an event day. I suggest that relying on the public to view a
website is an inadequate method of informing which days are event days.
2. Secondly and most importantly, the roadside signage does not state that there is a
requirement to pay or hold a permit on event days that fall on a Saturday or Sunday.
The top section of the sign states that non permit holders must pay Monday to Friday, 9-
5. The lower sign indicates that on event days between the hours of 9am - 10 pm, there
is a restriction to parking time of two hours. The sign does not state that on weekend
event days both the top sign AND the bottom sign apply. In this case the top sign CAN
NOT apply on a weekend event day, because the top sign
only indicates that payment or a permit is required Monday to Friday 9am-5pm. No
reasonable person could assume that both the top and bottom signs apply on weekend
event days, because the top sign explicitly states that the requirement to pay or hold a
permit is only between the hours of 9am-5pm Monday to Friday. The only restriction
applicable to an event day that falls on a weekend that is clear from the signage is that
between the hours of 9am to 10pm parking is restricted to 2 hours, with no return within
1 hour. The PCN issued found that the vehicle was parked for 11 minutes, between
16.07 and 16.18, without a permit or displaying a ticket. This did not violate the only
restriction that clearly applies based on the roadside sign; that parking on a weekend
event day was restricted to two hours.
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You seem to have gone somewhat quiet since November last?
Please give us the date of the hearing and indicate whether it is personal or on papers.
Please also post here a copy of what you have written by way of appeal to the Tribunal, and from the Council's Evidence Pack (you have received the EP?) the 2-3 page summary as to why H&F think the tribunal should dismiss your appeal.
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Hello there,
I am keen to resurrect this thread, as I have my tribunal hearing next week.
I am still of the belief that the roadside sign at the parking bay does not indicate a requirement to pay when an event day is on a weekend. Some people have suggested that it is clear that you must pay when the event day is on a weekend, however they have been unable to explain to me how it is clear. If your opinion is that it is clear there is a requirement to pay on a weekend event day I would love to hear why you say that.
Any advice for the tribunal?
Thanks
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A case refused in this zone.
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Case reference 225039353A
Appellant Oliver Buckley
Authority London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham
VRM GK13GFY
PCN Details
PCN HZ78497846
Contravention date 06 Apr 2025
Contravention time 15:45:00
Contravention location Lochaline Street
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Parked resident/shared use without a valid permit
Referral date -
Decision Date 24 Nov 2025
Adjudicator Mackenzie Robinson
Appeal decision Appeal refused
Direction Full penalty charge notice amount stated to be paid within 28 days.
Reasons
Mr Buckley appeals on two main grounds. Firstly he was parked approximately a mile away from the football ground in which the events are held. Given the size of London, it is not reasonable to expect that a driver parking in this area should have to bear in mind sporting events held a mile away. One would therefore not expect to see signage referring to events in the football ground in this area. Secondly he maintains that the signage at this location is ambiguous. There is a sign on the right-hand side of the road as one proceeds down Fulham Palace Road which is behind some scaffolding, but still readable. There is no indication of any restriction by reference to event days on that sign. There is then no signage in Lochaline Road itself which gives any information about event days.
Mr Winters spoke for the council during the hearing. He recounted a detailed conversation he had had with someone in the council with knowledge or developments in the area. That person was able to say that the sign to which Mr Buckley referred was not visible in April. It was covered by builder’s screens which were mounted on the scaffolding on the building. It had only become visible in the last few weeks when the screening was removed. (Mr Buckley accepted that his photograph was taken recently, after receiving the council's bundle of evidence.)
Mr Winters, with reference to the map that have been provided by the council, argued that there were three signs in place at that time on Fulham Palace Road marking the beginning of Zone T, and that drivers could reasonably be expected to notice them, with their stickers advertising the event days, and realize that they were the signs most applicable to parking in Lochaline Street.
I did not give my decision during the hearing, and both the council and Mr Buckley agreed to me consulting Google Maps Street View before making my decision. I have now done so. Firstly I make it clear that I am aware that the most relevant images on Google Maps are dated October 2025, and therefore do not indicate what the scene looked like in April. However the street view in general does give me useful guidance as to how a driver might approach the area and see signage.
The images do show the sign to which Mr Buckley refers, partially visible through scaffolding. I find that it would be difficult for a driver on the opposite side of the road to see and properly read this sign passing it at normal driving speed. This is also the sign which the council are quite sure was covered by the white plastic screening earlier this year. The images also show the sign on the near side, close to the junction with St Dunstan’s Road. The sign has a sticker giving the date of an event, and I have also seen the record produced by the Council that an officer checked all of the signs on the date of the alleged contravention, and confirmed that the stickers were present.
I must decide whether the situation, looked at as a whole, gave adequate warning to drivers regarding the restriction in place. I see no reason to doubt the evidence provided by Mr Winters’ colleague that the sign to which Mr Buckley referred was covered up at the time. The account given by Mr Winters of what he heard was detailed and compelling. The photographic evidence produced by Mr Buckley was taken after receiving the council's bundle, and does not represent what the scene looked like in April. I therefore find that there was more than one sign present at the border of the zone, and that those signs did have stickers advertising the event day. Mr Buckley parked a relatively short distance inside the Zone. I am therefore satisfied that a driver in his position would have been given adequate warning by the signage, even if the area was a considerable distance away from the football ground in which the events were being held. I accept that this was an inadvertent error by Mr Buckley, but the signs were there to be seen. I am therefore satisfied that this contravention did occur.
This appeal is therefore dismissed, but I note that the council is willing to accept the penalty at the discounted rate. This should be paid within 21 days. If it is not paid in that time, the penalty will revert to the full amount, to be paid within 28 days.
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Case in same zone.
Also let's get some more views on the sign.
(https://i.ibb.co/VYGT8WnC/Screenshot-2025-11-17-at-22-43-15.png)
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Case reference 2250294640
Appellant Jonathan Brenner
Authority London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham
VRM HN63 OVL
PCN Details
PCN HZ78122708
Contravention date 16 Mar 2025
Contravention time 10:29:00
Contravention location Winslow Road
Penalty amount N/A
Contravention Parked resident/shared use without a valid permit
Referral date -
Decision Date 15 Sep 2025
Adjudicator Carl Teper
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons
The Appellant has attended his appeal by video link, the Authority is not represented.
The Authority's case is that the Appellant's vehicle was parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charge when in Winslow Road on Sunday, 16 March 2025 at 10:29.
The Appellant's case is that there was nothing to indicate that this particular Sunday was an Event/March day with additional restrictions.
I have considered the evidence in this case and I find that this contravention is not proved.
Sunday, 16 March 2025 may well have been an Event/Match day, however, there is a requirement for this to be indicated on the Controlled Parking signage when entering a particular Zone - in this case the Zone that surrounds the football ground of the local football team.
This Authority has failed to provide a map indicating the extent of the Zone, where the CPZ signage is located and at least an example of a CPZ sign recording that Sunday, 16 March 2025 was an Event/Match day.
In the absence of such evidence I am not satisfied that the Authority has proved this particular contravention.
The appeal is allowed.
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This is the zone you were in. I can't see any event zone entry signs but Google Maps isn't up to date enough around there. I can see some match day zone entries but I think they are for other zones possibly for Chelsea not Fulham.
I think the parking sign is inadequate in ambiguity and given the council has not referenced zone signs I can't see they can enforce this or at least may not be able to produce evidence to show the tribunal.
(https://i.ibb.co/RGPyZ6p4/Screenshot-2025-11-17-at-11-54-52.png)
Thanks Stamfordman.
I can't say I have ever noticed any event zone signs there, but I could be wrong, and don't go there enough to go and check unfortunately. Like you say, GSV is outdated.
When you say tribunal, do you know what that would consist of?
Thank you
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This is the zone you were in. I can't see any event zone entry signs but Google Maps isn't up to date enough around there. I can see some match day zone entries but I think they are for other zones possibly for Chelsea not Fulham.
I think the parking sign is inadequate in ambiguity and given the council has not referenced zone signs I can't see they can enforce this or at least may not be able to produce evidence to show the tribunal.
(https://i.ibb.co/RGPyZ6p4/Screenshot-2025-11-17-at-11-54-52.png)
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There you are, a contrary view ! For me the sign seems clear, but it may not be in accordance with the regulations on signs. Bear in mind the council will refuse your reps, so you'd have to take them to London Tribunals to test the matter. This means the discount option is lost.
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I've looked at a number of event day schemes but not H&F.
The signage looks defective to me if the lower panel is supposed to qualify the parking sign, and there's no mention in their rejection of where event days are signed (presumably at zone entry points).
I'll have a closer look later.
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Thank you for your comment.
I'll be honest, I don't understand how the sign makes it clear that I have to pay on a Saturday (event day), but perhaps my brain doesn't work in the same way as the majorities!
For my understanding, are you able to explain to me how the sign is clear that I must pay on a Saturday event day?
Thank you
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Sorry to say it, but the sign seems clear enough to me. The lower plate merely restricts the allowed parking period to 2 hours on event days, with the requirement to pay still applying.
You haven't posted the last page of their letter of rejection; have they re-offered the discount ? If they have then I suggest you pay it.
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Hello there,
I received a parking fine from LB H&F on a Saturday that was also an event day.
Summary of issue:
I understood the sign at the roadside to mean that on an event day that was a Saturday (ie. not the Monday to Friday in the upper part of the sign), I could park for 2 hours for free, between the hours of 9am - 10pm. My car was seen between 16.07 and 16.18 on an event day (Saturday). I received a PCN.
According to the PCN I was supposed to pay to park for a maximum of 2 hours on a Saturday event day. This was not clear to me based on the roadside signage, that makes no reference to a Saturday at all, and makes no reference to paying on event days.
Have I completely misunderstood the sign and therefore should pay the fine, or is there any reasonable grounds to appeal? I would have thought that a reasonable person would not understand from the roadside sign that they needed to pay on an event day Saturday.
Roadsign, PCN and reply to initial appeal in pictures. Sorry, I did an initial appeal, and yes I've left it a while to do this..... can't go back in time.
Link to pics: https://imgpile.com/p/CsfTUl1#jykBswg
Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/CtGzpLyw5HSoDrrh9
Thank you