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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Nazma Yaqoob on November 07, 2023, 10:50:20 am

Title: Re: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: cp8759 on January 25, 2024, 12:06:03 am
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1taSMzYZR5Eesv6mOC_5Aq7JDQ3AoZyH1).
Title: Re: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: mrmustard on December 07, 2023, 06:51:29 am
Looking at the dates is the car leased? If so, please post all documents from the lease company. I think the PCN is a bit short on words but as a representation is already in I will leave that aside for now.
Title: Re: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: Hippocrates on December 06, 2023, 11:44:52 pm
What a nasty video.  They even zoom into the VRM before the alleged contravention took place!
Title: Re: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: Incandescent on December 06, 2023, 11:20:36 pm
Arrangements like here are also found elsewhere.

Here in the country near where I live can be found similar splits between the left and right signal arrays for a carriagway delineated into two lanes by carriageway painting only.
Have a look here where Bollington Lane joins Congleton Road in Cheshire, a junction I have negotiated many times !
https://maps.app.goo.gl/62pA8yHvnJyRHzhNA
You will see a similar arrangement as in the OP's case. The left signal array controls the left lane and the right one the straight ahead or turn right.  Clearly there were "incidents" here so the council have done a spatchcock and placed a double signal array across the junction to emphasise the signals. Two arrays have been placed side-by-side. ONe has to assume these are qualified traffic engineers installing these signs !
Then we have this in Nantwich
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xH7tho4tSrpYEbWm7
Here, it is a bit more logical; both signal heads control the two lanes, but the left one also has a left-turn arrow as well as a single green for all directions. When ahead is signalled the left head shows green just like the right signal.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3Nfr1toFjGzDSNJt6

It does seem to me the council are pushing the boundary of what is allowed and reference to the regulations and guidance is necessary
Title: Re: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: Nazma Yaqoob on December 06, 2023, 07:33:21 pm
I have had the following attachment letter response. How would you advise to proceed?

(https://i.imgur.com/23EB0mU.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/TztvhnX.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/5npboP7.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZOXzG5O.png)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: cp8759 on November 12, 2023, 10:09:57 pm
Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1dEhmAarHU

Draft challenge:

Dear London Borough of Ealing,

I challenge liability for PCN EA58950783 on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. In order to create an enforceable restriction, the council is required to provide segregated lanes, otherwise there is no impediment to a motorist lawfully switching lanes at any time (as this is not prohibited).

An example of a correct layout is found for instance on Filton Road in Bristol, I refer you to the images at LINK1 LINK2 and LINK3 which illustrate the point.

At the location captured by your camera, there are no restrictions or prohibitions on vehicles changing lane at any stage, nor can the turn right arrow embedded into the traffic light array have the effect you think it does: if it did, then all traffic including traffic in the left-hand lane would be required to turn right.

In the circumstances, the alleged contravention did not occur.

Yours faithfully,

I will PM you some links to put in the representation, they will redirect to https://imgur.com/a/4zM5p0o https://imgur.com/a/sInUhfA and https://imgur.com/a/XYsLaTA but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.
Title: 32JD camera contrevention - proceeding in wrong direction
Post by: Nazma Yaqoob on November 07, 2023, 10:50:20 am
Driver was new to the area and was lost at the time of incident of contravention.As for challenging this PCN Is The camera operating in accordance.

(https://i.imgur.com/zuhSamt.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/cB4l9nV.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WJnVe0g.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/L5G0Pj6.png)

[attachment deleted by admin]