Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Tickles on November 10, 2025, 10:50:45 pm
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FYI, heard back from Havering 11 Dec rejecting my appeal on the following basis. But as of yet, no NTO received. Any ideas how long this usually takes? I intend to appeal.
Also heard back from Havering today with the pictures, a bit late given the that has passed since the original PCN was issued!
"Thank you for your correspondence challenging the issue of the above Penalty Charge Notice.
I have given careful consideration to all the matters raised in your correspondence. I consider, nevertheless that the Penalty Charge should apply and have rejected your challenge for cancellation for the following reasons.
Your vehicle was parked in an area where parking had been suspended. Temporary signs were in place and your reasons for parking there are not acceptable as grounds for cancellation.
If you disagree with this decision you should take no further action, but wait until the owner of the vehicle receives a Notice to Owner, which is a formal notice of the Penalty Charge Notice. This notice gives the opportunity to make a formal representation, the procedure for doing so will be explained on the Notice to Owner and the case will then be re-considered. You still have the option to refer your case to London Tribunals and ask for independent adjudication. Alternatively, payment of the Penalty Charge should now be made."
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..nearby(**metres and ** parking spaces away)..
..a temporary notice which bizarrely said........ Dagnam Park Drove, a non-existent road.
..opposite end of the bays, some ** metres and ** parking spaces away.
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Hi all, just looping this back round in case anyone can help before I submit this weekend. Thanks in advance!
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Hi all,
This is my draft representation, first time doing this so would be grateful for any advice - perhaps a bit too repetitive? Is it worth getting into the fact that the location on the suspended parking sign is also incorrect?
"I am submitting this informal representations against the above PCN. My objection is based on the fact that I did not receive adequate notice of the temporary parking suspension that was in force on the day the PCN was issued, owing to signage that was unclear, incorrect and, (possibly) missing. Consequently, the authority failed to give me the proper statutory notice required for a valid suspension.
On 9 November 2025, I parked in the bay outside 9 Corbets Tey Road. Before leaving my vehicle, I checked the nearby restriction sign, outside 13 Corbets Tey Road. Although it was a Sunday, I also noted the temporary suspension notice directly beneath it. That suspension sign clearly stated 9–13 October 2025. The dates were clearly expired, so I concluded no current suspension applied. Please see attached for a photo of this sign.
On returning to my vehicle I discovered a PCN on the windscreen. It was then that I discovered that a second temporary-suspension sign was in place at the opposite end of the bays covering the 9 November.
Regardless of this fact, a driver acting in good faith should be entitled to rely on the sign that is most reasonably observable from the point of parking. There is no duty to search the entire length of the parking area for additional notices when the sign nearest the vehicle appears to give clear and unambiguous information.
Given the incorrect and misleading signage, the suspension was not properly signed and I request that the PCN be cancelled."
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Correct!
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That is an excellent question, and not something I had even realised until now. It is not even close, and 15-minute drive away by the looks of it...
So, not only was the suspended parking sign that I looked at on arrived dated, it also didnt correlate with the location it was placed. :-\
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And where exactly is Dagnam Park Drove in relation to Corbets Tey..?
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Thanks all your your responses.
Below I have set out the full chronology of events taking all my posts into a single one.
On 9 November 2025, I parked in the the parking bay directly outside #9 Corbets Tey Road, being the middle bay of the five available, excluding the disabled bay (as shown between the two tress in GSV).
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2xwZgr9aPtBaBdZN6?g_st=ac
Before leaving my car, I checked the nearby parking restriction board outside #13 Corbets Tey Road (Corals betting shop). As it was a Sunday, the standard Mon–Sat restrictions did not apply. Directly beneath that sign, however, there was also a temporary parking suspension notice. The dates printed on that suspension sign were 9–13 October 2025, clearly long expired. The parking suspension I viewed is below set out in the two links below:
https://imgpile.com/p/uNssZyN
https://imgpile.com/p/yjpgL52
I took this to mean there was no current suspension in effect and continued on my way.
When I returned, I found a PCN on my car as follows:
https://imgpile.com/p/kpuFE4i
A passerby then informed me that there was another parking suspension sign on the lamppost at the other end of the row of bays, outside #7 Corbets Tey Road (the shop being Pink Lily). See below GSV link of where this located - unfortunately, I did not get a picture of this.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xuykP54qzQjMd3G29?g_st=ac
That sign — which I unfortunately did not notice at the time I parked — displayed the correct suspension date covering 9 November, meaning the bay was suspended on the day I parked.
This was the first I became aware that two suspension signs were in place, one showing completely outdated dates (October) and another showing the correct, current suspension. Multiple drivers had apparently been caught out in the same way due to the conflicting signage.
To clarify:
The incorrect suspension sign (which I checked before leaving my car) was located outside Corals.
The correct suspension sign (which I did not see) was positioned at the opposite end, outside Pink Lily.
I have requested evidence from Havering, but as of yet have not heard anything back.
I do have a picture of the incorrect suspended parking sign, but not of the correct one.
I appreciate that failing in my representation will lead to having to pay the full £140 fine. But I genuinely do believe I have grounds for appeal. If the sign had been correct, I would have moved my car immediately.
I hope that helps! Any guidance would be much appreciated and apologies if I have not been clear in my previous messages.
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As Havering doesn't offer the discount on rejection you are probably in this for the full penalty or nothing.
Someone should make a separate complaint to the council maybe copied to the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman - it is not acceptable to withhold evidence while automatically ramping up the penalty like this.
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Thanks.
Pl expand on what the respective suspension signs said as you've put in your first post so that all info is contained within a single narrative.
Based on what you've posted, the council cannot succeed. But let's put forward succinct but comprehensive reps to get this nailed the this stage if we can.
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Hi all, thanks for all the info provided so far. i have yet to receive a response from Havering for photos, but i'm not hopeful. Is there enough information here to assist in drafting informal reps?
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Thanks H C Anderson.
To confirm:
On 9 November 2025 (a Sunday) I parked in the parking place o/s no. 9. I noticed a parking place suspension sign placed under the traffic sign situated o/s no.13. This stated a parking suspension between the dates of 9-13 October 2025. As I was not parked within this period and the restriction indicated by the regulatory sign was not in effect, it being a Sunday, I left my car.
On my return I found a PCN which caused me to look at the other traffic sign which carried a suspension notice covering the period in which I was parked on 9 November (unfortunately I did not take a picture of that parking suspension).
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OP..
There is a parking place situated between nos. 5(Pink Lily) and 13(Upminster Cafe) Corbets Tey Road. This is internally divided into 5 separate parking spaces. Also situated within the parking place are 2 regulatory traffic signs situated at the kerbside. One is situated o/s no.5, this being the first space in the direction of travel. The other is situated o/s no.13, at the furthest point within the parking place in the direction of travel. They convey part-time parking restrictions Mon-Sat.
Now over to you.....
On ** (a Sunday) I parked in the parking place o/s no. ***. I noticed a parking place suspension sign placed under the traffic sign situated o/s no. ****. This stated ****. As I was not parked within this period and the restriction indicated by the regulatory sign was not in effect, it being a Sunday, I left my car.
On my return I found a PCN which caused me to look at the other traffic sign which carried a suspension notice to the effect *******.
Once you've filled in the gaps we should be good to go IMO.
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I have requested the photos using online form, auto-reply message tells me they are very busy so may take some time to respond.
I tried calling but was told there is no direct number for them.
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There is no legal requirement for photos. No harm in asking if they have any.
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According to this page, they do not provide photos as standard for PCN's left on car windows:
https://www.havering.gov.uk/parking-2/parking-tickets-traffic-fines/3
I assume I can still request this information?
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We need to see the council's pics but Havering haven't put them online yet and have been slow to do so in other cases recently - you need to ask for them.
This is crucial because Havering is also not reoffering the discount on rejection even at informal stage so it is unfair not to see them.
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@stamfordman, thanks for your response. Please see below.
https://imgpile.com/p/kpuFE4i
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@Incandescent, please ignore the actual signage in GSV. I was parked on a Sunday so they are largely irrelevant. There was actually a parking suspension in place at the time (with temporary signs strapped to the lampposts i have set out). The parking suspension sign image I attached in my previous message (there are two pictures in the link) shows there was a parking suspension but is dated back in October.
What i hadn't realised is that the other lamppost had another parking suspension sign which was dated 9 November and within the time I was parked in the bay.
I walked over to the lamppost with the incorrect parking suspension sign and assumed all was fine and carried on as usual.
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Post the PCN, no redactions.
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But your two signs, one for the correct sign and one for the incorrect one are the same ?
Which sign was closest to your car ? If the incorrect one was, then you have a robust case, because you are entitled to take the nearest sign for your guidance on whether you can park or not.
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Hi,
Thank you for taking the time to review. Apologies if I was unclear.
Here is a clearer picture of where the incorrect sign was (that I checked upon leaving my car)
https://imgpile.com/p/yjpgL52
GSV:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/b9q3KUGd2Kq97UHL6
And this is where the correct sign was (marked in blue):
https://imgpile.com/p/dmG2DwX
GSV:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qne9ujLQD9MrgpcJA
Hope that helps, please let me know if I can provide any further info.
Thanks
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Please explain where each sign was in a better way. The sign for October has no street view so one cannot actually see where it was located. So please tell us exactly where each sign was using GSV and a detailed description.
Sorry if I seem thick , but it's important to know the spatial relationship of each sign.
The council have completely boobed, (stupid and dozy Havering !!), because keeping up the old sign is very bad practice and misleading as you found out, so once we can work out where the two signs were, we can probably help you write a robust representation against the PCN.
Just be aware that Havering will not re-offer the discount if you submit reps. Of course they haven't considered that this will make additional work for themselves, because it is then a total no brainer to take them to London Tribunals if they reject them. They then have to prepare an evidence pack and pay the adjudication fee. Complete idiots, basically
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Hi all,
Looking for some advice on a PCN I received in Sunday 9th November on Corbets Tey Road, Upminster.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/b9q3KUGd2Kq97UHL6
I parked up in the bay directly outside Vita, where the white car is shown within Street View above. I went to check the parking restriction board outside Corals which states Mon-Sat as standard parking restriction and I noticed a parking suspension board, noting the dates ranging from 9 October 2025 - 13 October 2025.
https://imgpile.com/p/uNssZyN
Came back to a PCN and was then notified by a passerby that there was another parking suspension board at the other side (outside Pink Lily, see Street View link below) which states 10 November during the period of time I was parked. They mentioned it as a lot of people had been caught out by the incorrect suspension sign.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qne9ujLQD9MrgpcJA
I would assume, based on the incorrect parking suspension signage, I have some grounds to contest this? Happy to provide any further details required!
Thank you all!