Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: victorious007 on November 10, 2025, 04:34:42 pm
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Got it.
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E mail me please.
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@Hippocrates , I say we go for the contest. I really see your point holding a strong point. and we can always mention the hounslow hearing/win.
What would the next steps be?
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@Hippocrates . Yeah true. Let's say I go ahead witht hat and i lose. do i still pay the intitial payment.
I mean, your win against Hounslow was a clear and easy win. your argument held ground well so why wouldnt it with Greenwich?
Thanks again and looking forward to your thoughts
The full price is what you pay if you lose. The system is an aleatoric lottery most of the time. My argument needs to be tested at the High Court if there is no general agreement among adjudicators.
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@Hippocrates . Yeah true. Let's say I go ahead witht hat and i lose. do i still pay the intitial payment.
I mean, your win against Hounslow was a clear and easy win. your argument held ground well so why wouldnt it with Greenwich?
Thanks again and looking forward to your thoughts
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Like everything else in life it is a gamble that they do not contest or adduce any evidence. My argument really needs to be resolved at the High Court as not all adjudicators agree.
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@Hippocrates , im with you on whichever option can get rid of this quick. Do you mean that they wont fight against appeals made to tribunals?
Thanks.
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Thanks. Well it's 50/50. The other possibility is that they hardly ever contest appeals these days. Your choice.
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@Hippocrates , this is what i wrote:
"
Appeal:
I make this collateral challenge against the validity of the PCN as it is missing mandatory
information as provided at Para. 4 (8 ) (v) of
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased
charge may be payable.
Clearly, this refers to Para. 4 (8 ) (iii):
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning
with the date of the notice;
Therefore, it follows that the statement: "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make
representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of
this notice an increased charge of £240 may be payable” adds to the lack of clarity by its
omission. Even on its own, whether the required information was included or not, it is also
arguable that it conflates the two periods using the word "or" which many would view as
being conjunctive. Furthermore, even if the statement were to be interpreted disjunctively,
there is still no clarity due to the missing information. So, it follows that it cannot possibly be
interpreted disjunctively"
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What did you write exactly please?
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Hi. @Hippocrates ,hope you're well. I used your first link of your profile forum as a template for this PCN, and received a NOR. Here are the pictures of letters:
Picture 1 (https://ibb.co/KxZryh7K)
Picture 2 (https://ibb.co/vvTw5Pr2)
Picture 3 (https://ibb.co/T51B7yr)
Picture 4 ad 5? (https://ibb.co/SXNyLr9W)
Thanks for your help. And also, I copied the template as you instructed, and sent it as a PDF to them as there was no space on website form.
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Put into a pdf
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Please look at the first link in my forum profile and use it. PCN is in valid. PCN is missing mandatory information.
Thanks Hippocrates. But when copy and pasting it into Greenwich's website. it only gives me 1000 characters. And the passage of text on your post was about 1050 characters. even tried to remove some spaces, what to do?
cant beleive they dont even let us write more than 1000 characters yet they send us bundles of stupidity through the post.
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Please look at the first link in my forum profile and use it. PCN is in valid. PCN is missing mandatory information.
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I'm afraid I cannot see any robust appeal argument for the contravention itself. You didn't know what the sign meant, so, (rather misguidely), drove straight past it. Not good for your wallet !
However, there may be a 'technical' appeal argument based on council mismanagement of the enforcement process itself, so wait a bit until Hippocrates has posted, but don't miss the discount deadline if that is what you are minded to do.
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Appreciate your response. I was already going slow and i have never ever seen this kind of sign before. new to that area, and did not look like the 52m signs. was very confused by the blue colour hence why i crossed it with a "what the hell is that sign, oh well" attitude. not the smartest of people either, im 55 haha.
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Video shows you passing the sign without any hesitation at all, and head on. If you'd turned left out of Station Crescent you might have had a case. Even if there is no advance warning, I doubt you'd convince an adjudicator you missed these signs. Did you even know what they were ?
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Hi All, didn't see this one coming. was too focused on keeping it at 20mph lol. However, i dont think there was any signs before this. And google street view is not updated: street view link (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Station+Cres+%26+Westcombe+Hill,+London+SE3+7DU/@51.4839487,0.019873,3a,75y,349.01h,76.7t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sGFNlPjjVTWOYCAdrLKVJvQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D13.30058617729668%26panoid%3DGFNlPjjVTWOYCAdrLKVJvQ%26yaw%3D349.01374617021304!7i16384!8i8192!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x47d8a839d0376d83:0x10e243076da63d87!2sStation+Cres+%26+Westcombe+Hill,+London+SE3+7DU!3b1!8m2!3d51.4840503!4d0.0199047!16s%2Fg%2F11f32qr8h2!3m5!1s0x47d8a839d0376d83:0x10e243076da63d87!8m2!3d51.4840503!4d0.0199047!16s%2Fg%2F11f32qr8h2?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTEwNC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)
Here are images of PCN:
https://ibb.co/GZwHMj6
https://ibb.co/BY4CySG
https://ibb.co/5gymny5b
I appreciate any support, and I am happy to share any other info.