Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Neftlix on November 05, 2023, 11:08:56 pm
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I have emailed them so that’s evidence now. Thanks for your help so far :)
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They make their money from them being hard to deal with.
By far your best bet is to get the management company to intervene.
In the meantime, as I and M60NJP have said, you need to make clear to VCS that you are not the driver.
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Kinda annoying for it to be so hard to cancel the ticket. It’s pretty clear case that if VCS & FirstPort worked better together - the other flats & I would have the relevant permits. I feel guilty for my mate as I said he could park there. Especially as it was a visitor spot after all!
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The initial PCN got sent to my mates house. I then represented him for the appeal & going forwards I was the one looking to get this dropped (thought it would be pretty simple but here we are). I guess they’ve since then changed their info to me for an unknown reason but I’ve emailed them confirming again that I wasn’t the driver.
The flats aren’t retirement - the whole estate have similar issues & we’re all wanting to move to better management companies. As a tenant & not owner though I can’t even properly access the FirstPort website
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As above, they've tagged you as the driver who parked so you've ended up in the cross-hairs. Dismantle that misconception (in writing) asap.
Do you by any chance rent in a retirement/over-55/60 apartment?.............
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Yeah okay. I’ll confirm it in an email to them. I clearly put that I have permission to represent my friend on the appeal so I’ll reconfirm that. I’ve managed to get Vanessa from FirstPort mobile number so will give her a ring on Monday as she should be able to sort this out.
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What would stating I wasn’t the driver achieve?
For one, stopping VCS from believing you were, which seems to be the case at present.
An issue at present is that VCS are pursuing you for a parking charge that (contractually speaking) is nothing to do with you.
The reason for that would seem to be that they think you were the driver. My worry is that 'your' appeal has misled them into believing this, in which case you could find yourself having a lot of explaining to do if they proceed to court.
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The issue isn’t the parking. The issue I believe is that there would be no issue if they had issued the permits out on time. VCS confirmed they hadn’t even sent out the permits until late November so that gave just under 2 months (from early October expiry of permits) of not a single person having a valid permit in the entire car park.
Is it not reasonable to assume that parking enforcement can’t be enforced during this period?
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I guess no, I’ve never said I’m not the driver. I agreed to fight this for my friend as I kinda gave him the go ahead as I was aware that we’re awaiting permits / visitor permits so thought it wouldn’t be an issue. I even contacted VCS straight away after my friend received the PCN & stated the permit issue and they said on the phone that this would be a valid appeal.
It’s clear at some point that they changed the address for communications from my friends address, got through DVLA, to mine - listed on the appeal.
What would stating I wasn’t the driver achieve?
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There's a risk you may have made things rather complicated.
It's unfortunate that we don't have the exact text of your appeal.
You mentioned that you didn't at any point state that you were the driver. Flipping that question, have you said explicitly to VCS at any point (and in the appeal) that you were not the driver?
Otherwise, appealing a parking charge issued to someone else in your own name on the grounds that "I had the right to park there" risks making a pretty strong implication that you were the one who parked.
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This is their rejection of it. Asking me to send them a valid permit when I’ve had written confirmation from VCS that they hadn’t even sent out the new permits (to firstport not residents) until end November so it’s plain impossible. This led me to believe they didn’t even read my appeal properly.
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There was an option to state that I have the right to park there. Added comment about the permit situation & seems they acknowledged this on the acknowledgment of the appeal.
I had consent from my friend to act on his behalf so I believe I ticked a box to that extent.
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What exactly was submitted as the appeal?
The online forms for appealing usually ask you to select an option from a drop down list explaining your relationship to the vehicle. What did you select?
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It’s my friend & I told him I’d deal with it as I thought it would be it quick issue to resolve. I’ve not once stated that I am the driver but have been communicating that it would be my permit. The permits aren’t linked to a specific reg number. The visitor permits & resident permits are issued at same time.
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Attached to imgur are the screenshots showing my appeal being rejected, conversation with FirstPort & VCS..
https://imgur.com/a/mvx3RJl
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We could do with seeing redacted copies of the emails between you and the parking company, to see why they might be writing to you instead of the guest.
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I’m not entirely sure owns the land. I’ve tried to find this out - FirstPort property managers are the people who deal with everything & I had confirmation from FirstPort that our specific property manager, Vanessa Crane, contacted VCS to reverse the charge - this is something VCS said never happened. My flat is leasehold but I’m just a tenant renting. Our tenancy agreement includes car parking space. I’m not aware of any resident group except there’s an annual meeting to discuss service charges from FirstPort (but I’ve never had experience with this as all included in rent).
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Then we need to see the contents of those emails.
And the answers to the several questions already asked.
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In regards to me being addressed. I presume they changed the address to myself as I was conversing with them a lot on email? Kinda out of the blue. Attached is the most recent letter.
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I am the one listed on the fine now
How?
You'll need to tell us exactly what correspondence has been sent by you or your guest to VCS in relation to the parking charge.
You've still not answered any of the questions asked by me or thevaliant. We can't help you unless you help us to do so.
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STILL NO SIGN OF NEW PERMITS BEING ISSUED TO US RESIDENTS. VCS claim they sent the permits to firstport late November but we haven’t got them - firstport have stated they’ll be delivering them next week. Does this help prove my case?
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Apologies! Lost the login but just got back on. I am the one listed on the fine now - they sent me a payment reminder of £170. The property managing firm informed me that our specific property manager contacted VCS to drop the charge but VCS emailed me today stating they received nothing of the sort. Firstport, our property managers, said they’re aware of the delay & seems to accept responsibility.
I have recieved a “demand for payment” letter today & just wondering what I should prepare if it comes to county court. I 100% feel like the delay between the companies should not punish myself.
Whats comical is that they’re sending the payment reminder to myself at the postcode that apparently where the fine incurred - shouldn’t this clearly show that it’s a bogus charge & VCS shouldn’t waste their time to pursue Bizarre!
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Who owns the land on which your visitor parked?
Or more accurately, who employed the parking management company?
If the land is owned by a freeholder, who is the freeholder? Did the freeholder delegate parking to a PPC?
In residential parking situations, the status of the land (is this communal held by the freeholder?), the relationship with any management company, and their relationship with any PPC is probably more important than signs.
Over on Pepipoo, at least one case arose where a block of flats had the Residents Association (which has no legal standing in a lease) employ a PPC.
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It may be beneficial if the recipient of the notice posts directly, as it can occasionally turn into a game of Chinese whispers otherwise, and they are the one who is going to need to submit any appeals, or legal defences if it goes that far.
Another thing to note, so that they are going into this with their eyes open, is that regardless of the strength of any appeals, VCS are likely to reject them, as are the 'Independent Appeals Service'. VCS can be litigious, so if they're going to fight this, your guest may need to be prepared to defend themselves in the County Court (Small Claims track).
It would be helpful to see a copy of the notice they have received.
One point to note is that the signage looks 'forbidding' - there's no consideration offered to the driver, only to those in possession of a permit, so one could argue that no contract was formed.
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A guest of ours has received a £100 PCN for parking overnight in a VISITOR space. Need guidance on best way to appeal this.
For context, our block of flats we live in has a private car park with spaces numbered by our door numbers (10,11 ,12 etc) but also 3 visitor spaces just labelled “V”.
The parking enforcement company has failed to give us new permits for our own designated parking spaces - these permits expired 8th October 2023. It is currently 5th November 2023 & no sign of new permits for the year despite a few of my neighbours having emailed the company responsible. A neighbour received the following from the company when requesting: “Please be advised we are still awaiting approval from the client of the car park” as a explanation why they couldn’t get hold of more visitor permits nor new designated passes.
In addition to permits for designated spots, they also have these paper permits which you’re meant to give visitors but many of us don’t have any left as they are one use & other neighbours have requested more along with their new permits - still to no avail. The signs displayed don’t reference “visitor” spots & you wouldn’t actually know that you need this piece of paper for parking in a VISITOR spot. Absolutely absurd to need a permit for visitor space in my opinion.
The signs that are visible state:
“ Valid Parking Permits Only. Park Only Within The Lines Of Your Permitted Allocated Bay. Permit holders must clearly display a valid permit inside the front windscreen of the vehicle with all details clearly visible at all times.”
Given the fact that genuinely none of us have “valid” permits (they’re all expired 08/10/2023), signs are unclear regarding visitor spaces & there’s confusion regarding the control of the car park - is this enough ground for appeal or if not, what else can we look into? TIA
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