Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Sarf London on November 05, 2025, 06:56:03 pm

Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on April 01, 2026, 11:08:22 am
If 9(2)(e) was stated and then followed by 9(2)(e)(ii) but without 9(2)(e)(i) then it would read as gibberish?

Namely;

The notice must state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver.


As I suggested earlier - what would be the point of allowing the parking operator to chose between the two different invitations?

There's no question in my mind that the legislation requires that the notice state the prescribed wording (or near enough) AND then immediately offer the two limbed invitation to the keeper.

I understand your point regarding your 'all-in-one' passage of wording but it could be that legislators specifically wished to underline the requirement of offering the two limbed invitation.

If you read other Acts then you will see that this method of presentation is very commonplace - look at 9(2)(f) which also contains a multi-limb requirement but this time under AND logic.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Innocentman on April 01, 2026, 10:06:30 am
No.

The legislation requires that the NtK invite the keeper to pay the charges OR nominate another driver.

I understand the point which you are making - that the operator has a choice as to which one they invite the driver to do - but that isn't in keeping with the grammar of the text of the legislation.

Mmm.  I understand the point which you are making, but IMO the grammar is clear.  The whole of Para 9(2) talks about what the notice must do or contain - it must do (a) and (b) and (c) etc, until we get to (e) which is to be read as 'the notice must do (e)(i) or the notice must do (e)(ii)'.

If we look at 9(2)(a) it says that the notice must "specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates".

9(2)(b) - "inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full"

IMO if 9(2)(e) was meant to say that the notice must invite the keeper to either pay up or to throw the driver under the bus it would have been worded something like

(e) state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and
a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper to pay
the unpaid parking charges or if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle,
to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for
service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

But as it is, with a 9(2)(e)(i) separated from a 9(2)(e)(ii) with a '; or' it's not saying 'the notice must invite the keeper to do this or to do that', it's saying 'the notice must invite the keeper to do this or the notice must invite the keeper to do that'.

But as ixxy says, it would need a court case to determine exactly what it means.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: ixxy on April 01, 2026, 07:31:26 am
The PCN also quite clearly states that if the driver is not identified they will pursue the keeper. The key issue here is whether the NTK has to have the exact wording contained within the legislation or not. Some people on here believe the wording needs to be exact, others are not so sure and the private parking companies and the independent appeals services certainly don't think that is the case.

So until a claim  gets to court that is solely defended on this basis and wins we don't really have definitive answer (and even then its not binding on other claims). So if a keeper doesn't want to pay a PCN and has no proper grounds to appeal then it makes for an official sounding appeal which will help,run the clock down until a claim is possibly issued. If on there other hand there are better grounds for appeal, clear breach of the code, NTK issued too late, signage issues, frustration of contract etc. , its much better to use those arguments as they might actually get an appeal granted and if it isn't the keeper is no worse off.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on April 01, 2026, 07:30:04 am
No.

The legislation requires that the NtK invite the keeper to pay the charges OR nominate another driver.

I understand the point which you are making - that the operator has a choice as to which one they invite the driver to do - but that isn't in keeping with the grammar of the text of the legislation.

Also, ask yourself; what purpose would your interpretation serve? It wouldn't make any sense or serve any purpose?

Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Innocentman on March 31, 2026, 11:27:01 pm
Hang on a minute guys - this seems to be pretty crucial..


Quote
.
.
.
Here the missing limb is 9(2)(e)(i). That sub-paragraph requires the NtK to invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. The law is explicit that the invitation must be directed to “the keeper”. It is not enough to tell “the driver” to pay; it must invite “the keeper” to pay if the creditor wants keeper liability.

9(2)(e) says

(i) OR
(ii)

So "invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges" OR "if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver".

The NtK says

(https://i.postimg.cc/5YqqJ4DX/Screen-Hunter-3340.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YqqJ4DX)

so they have complied with 9(2)(e).  9(2)(e) says do (i) OR (ii) and they've done (ii).

No?
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on March 29, 2026, 01:59:56 pm
Intercity - thanks for all your help. I'll post back here should an LBA appear.

Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: ixxy on March 29, 2026, 10:14:26 am
POPLA are now in a very difficult situation as I believe we are putting more pressure on them with regard to ECP NtKs - sooner or later they will have to crack.

Or maybe sooner or later we need to realise appealing on the basis of perceived POFA wording issues isnt going to win appeals. As DWMB2 recently pointed out, posters here are volunteers, not professional qualified advisers, going up against people backed up with lawyers who do this for a living. There are plenty of examples of inappropriately issued PCNs that are worth defending, like it or not many PCNs are issued correctly, doesn't mean payment can't be avoided but suggesting there are solid grounds for defence isn't really helping people coming here looking for advice.

On a separate note Bhpcn is still waiting for your single point POPLA appeal you promised at the start of the week, get that through POPLA successfully and the game changes.
Quote
Posted by InterCity125 on 03 Mar, 2026 08:21

Post actions
For the record, I'm quietly confident that we can word a single appeal point POPLA appeal which they will find very difficult to rebut.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on March 29, 2026, 07:43:34 am
ECP and their henchmen will threaten court etc but they never go through with it.

Nothing to worry about.

What this case demonstrates is how bent POPLA are and they should be trusted by nobody.

We have a number of other cases regarding ECP and non-compliant NtKs so let's see what happens with those.

POPLA are now in a very difficult situation as I believe we are putting more pressure on them with regard to ECP NtKs - sooner or later they will have to crack.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Beachway on March 26, 2026, 03:00:32 pm
Please keep us updated. Im going through the system too.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on March 25, 2026, 07:39:47 pm
Thank you for your email received 16 March 2026
 
I note my colleague has previously responded to your complaint and confirmed POPLA’s position.
 
I note further they confirmed that this response marks the end of our complaints procedure and it will not be appropriate for POPLA to respond further.
 
For the avoidance of doubt, POPLA’s involvement in your appeal has now ended. Any further correspondence received in relation to this issue will be noted on your case, but not responded to.


========================================================================
In other words, they bottled it twice and think that's the end of the game.

I now want to push ECP for an early court date. Let's get this over with.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on March 16, 2026, 07:11:53 pm
Sent.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on March 14, 2026, 02:12:12 pm
Yes - please send.

The Assessor sets out the legislation and then provides no evidence that the legislation has been satisfied.

The Assessor is BS-ing and everyone knows it including him / her.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on March 14, 2026, 01:59:28 pm
Here's the original email reply, converted to a PDF......

Please let me know if your commenst still stand as I will be going back to them with your response if that's the case....

https://ibb.co/Fkc9Ywr5
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on March 13, 2026, 08:52:56 am
Jumping in on this, the pcn "does not contain the mandatory wording", mandatory is mandatory. It seems like theyve closed ranks. The assesor was wrong and so is the complaints assesor. You simply cannot interpret the act to suit yourself. As it stands, the complaint was never going to overturn the original judgement anyway, Im interested to see if ECP and their cronies attempt to test this nonsense in court, now theyve seen this and now think theyve got some kind of 'justification to proceed'.

You are 100% correct.

But this is what you often find with POPLA.

You can present the strongest evidence but the assessor's seem to decide, in advance, if an appeal is going to be successful.

In this instance, as you point out, this is a really clear one but look at the lengths that two Assessors have gone to in order to try and persuade the appellant that the notice is compliant.

Generally the behaviour is always the same - if you present a difficult appeal point the assessor will either;

1) Rebut the point outright but avoid all clarity on how the decision was reached - clarity is the assessors enemy where appeal points are strong - clarity is therefore avoided at all costs since clarity will only ever favour the appellant and that is what the assessor is trying to avoid.

2) Ignore the appeal point totally when rebuttal is impossible - carefully skip over the point and move to the next point.

3) Materially alter the basis of an appellants appeal point in order to make the appeal point fit with available rebuttal evidence.

4) Exclude appellant evidence when that evidence disqualifies the assessors proposed outcome.


In this case both assessors have fumbled in order to try and provide rebuttal evidence.

In each instance the two assessors have provided differing evidence in their rebuttal.

In this case the second assessor has (inadvertently) acknowledged that the first assessor provided invalid rebuttal evidence.

The second assessor then attempts to 'force fit' the wording of a different term into the mandatory requirements of 9(2)(e) - it is clear as day that his proposed compliance is totally irrelevant to 9(2)(e).

The assessor then tip-toes around the precise requirements because any further comments would start to provide the dreaded 'clarity' at a time when the assessor is desperately trying to avoid any clarity.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on March 13, 2026, 07:31:02 am
Reply to POPLA with the following;

Obviously add your details so they know where it's come from.


Dear Lead Assessor,


I have received your response regarding the above complaint.

Unfortunately, your response contains some kind of formatting error!

I am sure this an accident.

In your response you attempt to highlight, in GREEN, the operator's compliance with PoFA Schedule 4 Paragraph 9(2)(e).

Unfortunately, you inadvertently copy and paste (in GREEN) the requirements of 9(2)(f)'warning to keeper' instead of 9(2)(e) mandatory wording followed by the two limbed 'invitation to the keeper'.

This in not the first time that a POPLA assessor has done this - I highlighted this issue in my complaint!

Ironically, you actually include the specific mandatory wording, word for word, from 9(2)(f) in your quoted GREEN wording when my complaint was clearly about the missing wording and legal choice which should be presented by 9(2)(e), 9(2)(e)(i) and 9(2)(e)(ii).

Once again, to be clear, I COMPLETELY ACCEPT THAT THE REQUIREMENTS OF 9(2)(f) ARE MET BY THE OPERATORS NtK AND THERE IS NO NEED TO FURTHER REFERENCE THEIR COMPLIANCE WITH THAT TERM.

From my perspective, your response is bizarre since I have never actually, at any stage, raised the non compliance with 9(2)(f) as either an appeal point or a complaint - with all due respect, POPLA Assessors appear to exhibit behaviour where they attempt to move troublesome complaints on to other issues when appeal points are awkward to rebut - your quoted text, which is GREEN, should actually be BLUE since it obviously relates to 9(2)(f) rather than the appeal / complaint point regarding non compliance with 9(2)(e).

In this instance, your quoted GREEN text (which you say relates to 9(2)(e) of Schedule 4) is taken directly from the operator's NtK which, the operator themselves specifically state (on the physical NtK), is given, "under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4" - why are you continually referencing 9(2)(f) 'warnings to the keeper' when the complaint is about non-compliance with 9(2)(e) and the 'invitation to the keeper' - a 'warning to the keeper' and an 'invitation to the keeper' are totally different actions (and, of course, wordings) on the part of the parking operator and one cannot be either be substituted or implied to be the other - English language dictates that a 'warning' states something factual whereas an 'invitation' asks something of somebody - your GREEN highlighted text is simply a series of warnings and an invitation is never presented in your highlighted text.

It is extremely clear that all the wording in both BLUE and GREEN all relates to the warnings which 9(2)(f) require - If you read each sentence in your GREEN section you will see that each sentence is a 'warning to the keeper' of one kind or another - it is acknowledged that the operator has added a couple of additional 'warnings' which are not mandatory but this appears reasonable in nature and does not diminish compliance with 9(2)(f).

I note with interest that the rebuttal sentence, "the Notice to Keeper makes it clear that the keeper may be pursued for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid",  provided by Rachael Hankinson (in her assessment) is now firmly in your BLUE section meaning that she did provide incorrect rebuttal evidence in my initial appeal.



Let's move this back to 9(2)(e) since this was both my appeal point and my complaint;


Once again, taken at face value, you deliberately move the complaint point FROM 9(2)(e) across to 9(2)(f) - a simple examination of the legislation shows that the stated requirements are totally different and the requirements of 9(2)(f) cannot possibly satisfy the requirements of 9(2)(e) in the manner which you 'accidently' imply with your highlighted text.

Your GREEN highlighted text (in order to demonstrate parking operator compliance with 9(2)(e) of Schedule 4) states the following;

"...applicable cobnditions under Schedule 4 of the Act. If you do not provide the correct address for service of the driver, pass the notice on to the driver, we will pursue you for any parking Charge amount that remains outstanding. Should you identify someone who denies they were the driver, we will pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains outstanding."

Unfortunately, even you must admit, your highlighted GREEN text fails to highlight either the legally required MANDATORY WORDING or the TWO LIMBED LEGAL CHOICE which must be presented directly, via a written invitation in the NtK, to the vehicle keeper under 9(2)(e) - please read the requirements of 9(2)(e) and then explain this GREEN text further as the quoted GREEN text is completely disconnected from the requirements of 9(2)(e) and bears absolutely zero resemblance to the required wording or legal choice which 9(2)(e) clearly sets out - as already mentioned, the highlighted GREEN text is stated by the operator as being given under 9(2)(f) and not 9(2)(e).

You say that your GREEN text, in your opinion, "relates to 9(2)(e)" - that is fine and that is your opinion but, that does not mean that the GREEN text, which you suggest relates to 9(2)(e), automatically satisfies the terms of 9(2)(e) until that text is 'tested' directly with the statutory requirements of the legislation - instead of testing it, you simply jump to a massive conclusion - this gives the impression that testing it would be 'inconvenient' to your proposed outcome?

The legislation relating to 9(2)(e) actually appears to be completely different to your highlighted GREEN text and actually states the following 9(2)(e);


THE NOTICE MUST STATE that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;


Clearly your quoted GREEN text contains none of the information required by the term - and neither is there a two limbed legal choice offered to the keeper.

So, to demonstrate your point, please point out, using your GREEN text if you wish, the required mandatory wording (on the operators NtK) which sets out the sentence which THE NOTICE MUST STATE, "The creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver" - I'll help you out - the mandatory wording isn't present and your GREEN highlighted text does not contain the specific sentence (or anything even close) which the legislation says the notice MUST STATE in order to be compliant - this is immediately fatal to the operators reliance on PoFA.

Furthermore, following on from that, again using your GREEN text if the moment takes you, please highlight, from the operators NtK, the required TWO LIMBED invitation (the two legs separated by the mandatory word 'or') to the keeper to either 'pay the unpaid parking charges' or 'provide alternative driver details' - I'll help you out - the wording / two limbed choice isn't present - if it was present then it has to be immediately after the mandatory sentence.

Once again, notice the precise mandatory requirements;

That THE NOTICE MUST STATE that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver AND invite the keeper— blah blah blah

I have highlighted the word AND for a reason; that in order to be compliant, the operator must set out the statutory wording AND invite the keeper to pay the unpaid charges or nominate another driver - all three requirement of 9(2)(e), 9(2)(e)(i) and 9(2)(e)(ii) must be met.

It is notable that your response never deals with the requirements of 9(2)(e)(i) and 9(2)(e)(ii) - at no point do you address the fact that the two limbed legal choice is missing - without stating the bleeding obvious, anyone can see that the two limbed choice is clearly not contained in your GREEN text - once again, you avoid this because the situation is 'inconvenient' to your proposed outcome.

To be honest, in your reply, you are clearly trying to loosely imply that some of the requirements of 9(2)(e) are somehow 'covered off' by the wording of 9(2)(f) - this is not acceptable and even you must see that the mandatory wording is missing, as is the two limbed legal choice which 9(2)(e)(i) and 9(2)(e)(ii) requires - if you disagree then please present the required mandatory wording and the subsequent two limbed legal choice in your reply - as you already know, neither is present on the operators NtK and, as such, the NtK is non compliant with PoFA since the requirements are extremely specific and legal very tight.

Furthermore, the fact that your reply suggests that the operator's NtK satisfies 9(2)(f) first, and then, highly subjectively, satisfies 9(2)(e) secondly, with some loose keeper warnings, is a clear demonstration of the utter chaos which surrounds the operators NtK - the fact that an assessor is having to go to such lengths to defend the operators position should alert POPLA to the problems which exist with this NtK.

The fact is that POPLA have deliberately introduced subjectivity into a scenario which the legislation makes objective - the notice must state the mandatory wording required by 9(2)(e) - the notice does not state the required mandatory wording - the notice is therefore not compliant - it's as simple as that!

Now please address the matters at hand and point out the required mandatory wording and subsequent two limbed legal choice which 9(2)(e) requires?


I await your response and some further GREEN highlighting!


Best wishes,

xxxxxx xxxxxxx
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Beachway on March 13, 2026, 04:06:20 am
Jumping in on this, the pcn "does not contain the mandatory wording", mandatory is mandatory. It seems like theyve closed ranks. The assesor was wrong and so is the complaints assesor. You simply cannot interpret the act to suit yourself. As it stands, the complaint was never going to overturn the original judgement anyway, Im interested to see if ECP and their cronies attempt to test this nonsense in court, now theyve seen this and now think theyve got some kind of 'justification to proceed'.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on March 12, 2026, 08:41:59 pm
Could you upload the quote which is redacted?

This really is ridiculous.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on March 12, 2026, 06:43:33 pm

Clearly, the crux of your complaint is that you are unhappy with the outcome reached in the assessment of your appeal. You say the assessor has omitted elements of the required  mandatory wording of the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012. You raised that the operator’s PCN was not compliant and there was the omission of the subsequent two limbed legal choice required under Schedule 4, Paragraph 9 (2) (e). You say if the notice is examined it will be noticed that this was never presented. You say the assessor makes a procedural error as her wording referenced is that as discussed in 9 (2) (f) and not (e).
 
I have looked at the PCN following your complaint. I can see that you raised:
 
 
 
PoFA 2012 in e and f states:
 
 (Quote of (e) and (F) from the ACT inserted here)
 
 I have highlighted the pertinent section of the PCN which discusses PoFA 2012 requirements.
 
•   Green relates to 9 2 (e)
•   Blue relates to 9 2 (f)
 
BLUE:
You are advised that if after the period of 28 days beginning the day after that on which the notice is given (which os presumed to be the second working day after the Date issued) the parkign charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you.....

GREEN:
...applicable cobnditions under Schedule 4 of the Act. If you do not provide the correct address for service of the driver, pass the notice on to the driver, we will pursue you for any parking Charge amount that remains outstanding. Should you identify someone who denies they were the driver, we will pursue you for any Parking Charge amount that remains outstanding.

  The assessor stated:
 
“The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver.
 
In this case, the PCN in question has the necessary information and the parking operator has therefore successfully transferred the liability onto the registered keeper.
 
The appellant says that the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with PoFA 2012 as it omits the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. However, the Notice to Keeper makes it clear that the keeper may be pursued for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid and failure to make payment may result in additional costs.”
 
I am satisfied that the assessor is correct. Whilst the assessor has not touched upon the relevant sections, I am satisfied that it met the mandatory requirements of PoFA 2012 and therefore, the registered keeper can be held liable for the PCN.
 
Having reviewed both the appeal and your complaint, I am satisfied the decision reached is appropriate based on the evidence presented.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on March 04, 2026, 01:33:04 pm
Magic.

Should be interesting.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on March 04, 2026, 01:21:26 pm
Thank you for your contact.

We are sorry that you are unhappy with our service and would like to reassure you that we take all complaints seriously.

The information has been escalated to our complaints team and the details will be reviewed.

You should receive a response within 21 days depending on the complexity of the information provided.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on February 26, 2026, 02:01:54 pm
Sent

Thank you.

Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on February 25, 2026, 05:59:17 pm
POPLA Complaint - Procedural error and mishandling of PCN Appeal.

Original POPLA Code -

Assessor Name Rachel Hankinson


Dear Lead Assessor,


I recently received an appeal response from POPLA regarding a PCN issued by Euro Car Parks (ECP).

The response contains a clear procedural error - namely; that the assessor incorrectly establishes keeper liability under PoFA when the NtK clearly omits elements of required mandatory information.

My initial POPLA appeal centred on a number of appeal points but this complaint purely relates to the assessor's incorrect assertion of keeper liability.

In my appeal, I clearly raised the issue of the operators non compliant NtK and, in particular, the omission of both the mandatory wording and the subsequent two limbed legal choice which the operator is required to present to the keeper by Schedule 4 Paragraph 9(2)(e).

In very simple terms, as I am sure you will be aware, Paragraph 9(2)(e) requires that the NtK state a prescribed sentence of mandatory wording immediately followed by a direct invitation to the vehicle keeper to either pay the unpaid parking charges themselves or to provide alternative driver details.

If you examine the NtK from ECP you will see that the notice contains no such prescribed wording and, subsequently, no two limbed mandatory legal choice is ever presented to the keeper in the manner set out in the Schedule.

It is clear that my POPLA appeal document adequately drew the assessor's attention to this specific point.

However, the assessor's comments appear to demonstrate that she is not adequately familiar with the precise requirements of PoFA Keeper Liability - instead of working through the matter objectively, examining the precise requirements of PoFA term by term, she appears to make a highly subjective judgement which, unfortunately, bears absolutely no resemblance to the actual objective requirements of the relevant legislation.

In her appeal response she states, "The appellant says that the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with PoFA 2012 as it omits the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. However, the Notice to Keeper makes it clear that the keeper may be pursued for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid and failure to make payment may result in additional costs."

In simple terms, and based on what she has written, the assessor appears to broadly understand my appeal point, namely; it's clearly an NtK with no mandatory wording and no invitation to keeper to pay the unpaid charges or nominate another driver.

This appeal point would obviously constitute a clear failure to meet the requirement of Paragraph 9(2)(e) - however, and rather oddly, the assessor then goes on to say, "However, the Notice to Keeper makes it clear that the keeper may be pursued for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid."

This is a procedural error since the wording referred to by Rachael Hankinson (in her reasoning) is actually the mandatory wording requirement of Paragraph 9(2)(f), and not that of 9(2)(e).

Critically, at no point does the assessor actually refer to the precise requirements of 9(2)(e) - if the required wording (and legal choice) was present on the NtK then she would surely point this out rather than trying to vaguely imply compliance by referencing the mandatory wording from a different term, namely; that of 9(2)(f)?

In essence, the assessor appears to try and 'dig the parking operator out of a hole' by stating that the mandatory wording of 9(2)(f) somehow satisfies both the legally required mandatory wording and two limbed choice required by 9(2)(e) - to be blunt, this is legally illiterate.

(I would also point out the following; that if her stated wording is deemed to satisfy the requirements of 9(2)(e) then the requirements of 9(2)(f) would now be left unsatisfied by the NtK since each term of 9(2) requires its own wording.)

The assessor then moves on with her findings and never attempts to deal with the missing information / choices required by 9(2)(e) - this gives the impression that the assessor is deliberately avoiding both clarity and accruacy on the issue since such clarity and accruacy would leave her in a position where she had to admit that the NtK was not compliant.

To be absolutely clear at this point; nothing in my POPLA appeal ever suggested that the ECP NtK failed to comply with 9(2)(f) - I acknowledge that the mandatory 'warning to the keeper' required by 9(2)(f) (and referred to by Rachael Hankinson when rebutting my appeal point) is indeed present in the operators NtK - however, the presence of this wording does not somehow negate the operators requirement to additionally satisfy the terms of 9(2)(e) in order to produce a PoFA compliant NtK.

The absence of the required mandatory wording and two limbed legal choice is fatal to the parking operators reliance on PoFA to establish keeper liability.

The terms of PoFA are very legally tight and total compliance with Schedule 4 Paragraph 9(2)(a to i) are required in order to invoke PoFA keeper liability - as I am sure you are aware, there is no such thing as partial compliance - 9(2) states that "The notice MUST" contain the listed requirements.




For the purposes of total clarity;


In order to be compliant the NtK must contain specific mandatory text and legal choices as specified by Schedule 4 of PoFA.

In this instance, the requirements of Schedule 4 Paragraph 9(2)(e) are not satisfied by the operators NtK.

To be compliant, the requirements of 9(2)(e) can only be met if a specific paragraph is placed in the NtK which should read as follows;

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the current time, Euro Car Parks (the creditor) does not know both the name and a current address for service for the driver.

The keeper is therefore INVITED TO PAY THE UNPAID PARKING CHARGES

Or

If the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass this notice onto the driver.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The required paragraph is clearly missing from the operators NtK.

The information must be presented in this manner to be compliant ie in one paragraph. Compliance cannot be achieved by, for example, placing the information at random points throughout the NtK since this would not present the keeper with the text followed by the legal choice which 9(2)(e) requires - this point is clearly backed up by the precise wording of 9(2)(e) - the mandatory text which must be immediately followed by the invitation to the keeper to pay the charges or nominate another driver.

In this particular instance;

The Euro Car Parks NtK never states the essential mandatory wording required by para. 9(2)(e).

The Euro Car Parks NtK never 'invites the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges'.

The Euro Car Parks NtK never uses the required mandatory word "or" to connect the two required limbs of the legal choices.

The Euro Car Parks NtK never presents the two limbed legal invitation which para. 9(2)(e)(i) and 9(2)(e)(ii) requires.


The wording (warning to the keeper) mentioned by Rachael Hankinson is irrelevant to the requirements of 9(2)(e) and, instead, is actually a clear reference to the wording requirements 9(2)(f).

It is also important to note, that the warning given in 9(2)(f) is made in clear reference to the operators ability to transfer liability for the charges, onto the keeper, after a period of 28 days.

The requirement of 9(2)(e) is completely different as it deals specifically with an invitation to the keeper (to pay or nominate) which is made, by the operator, within that initial 28 day period - at that point in time, the legal liability for the charge actually lies with the unknown driver and not with the keeper - as such, the legislation requires that operator invites the keeper to pay (or nominate) regardless of the fact that they may not actually be legally liable at that precise point in time.


I look forward to your carefully considered response in this matter.



Best wishes,

xxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on February 25, 2026, 01:36:24 pm
Yes Please Intercity.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on February 25, 2026, 07:50:52 am
@Sarf London

With your permission, I would be happy to write you a POPLA complaint?

Whilst this won't overturn the decision, it could provide you with a response where they admit an error - you can subsequently use this if the operator pursues you.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Brenda_R2 on February 24, 2026, 05:22:20 pm
There is one Rachel Hankinson on Linkedin with a bio that indicates that she is an "Appeals Assessor at Ombudsman Services".

Except if you click on "Ombudsman Services" you get redirected to "Energy Ombudsman (Formerly Ombudsman Services) -  If you’re looking to raise a dispute with your energy supplier please visit our website."

So who are POPLA actually using to assess appeals?

Because it would seem they're not using anyone with a working knowledge of the private parking industry?
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on February 24, 2026, 04:55:57 pm
Unbelievable.

She admits that the mandatory wording isn't present but implies that a different warning subjectively satisfies the requirements - this is nonsense.

Given that appealing via POPLA is clearly nothing more than a box-ticking exercise, is the appellant in any way disadvantaged by simply not entering into the charade and waiting for the inevitable legal letters?

I believe that over time we have been successfully tweaking appeals regarding non PoFA compliance and, hopefully, we might be getting nearer a point where POPLA have to correctly assess PCNs.

This is the first time I've seen an assessor imply that mandatory wording isn't present - the problem is that she simply bends the rules and determines that the wording required by Paragraph 9(2)(f) also satisfies the legal requirements of 9(2)(e) - of course that is nonsense since 9(2)(e) requires mandatory wording followed by the two limbed choice which is also specified.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: jfollows on February 24, 2026, 04:52:59 pm
Yes.
The courts want to see that every effort has been taken to avoid cases going to court. Following the full formal appeal process is necessary for this.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Brenda_R2 on February 24, 2026, 04:49:01 pm
Unbelievable.

She admits that the mandatory wording isn't present but implies that a different warning subjectively satisfies the requirements - this is nonsense.

Given that appealing via POPLA is clearly nothing more than a box-ticking exercise, is the appellant in any way disadvantaged by simply not entering into the charade and waiting for the inevitable legal letters?
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: InterCity125 on February 24, 2026, 04:34:07 pm
Unbelievable.

She admits that the mandatory wording isn't present but implies that a different warning subjectively satisfies the requirements - this is nonsense.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on February 24, 2026, 04:28:00 pm
Decision Unsuccessful

Assessor Name Rachel Hankinson

Assessor summary of operator case
The parking operator has issued a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for overstaying the maximum time period allowed.


Assessor summary of your case
The appellant has raised the following grounds, which have been summarised: • The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 as it omits the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. • The signage is inadequate as the text is half the required size and a driver would not be able to see the entrance sign. • There is no evidence of parking, and the operator has failed to include entry and exit images. They require full unredacted copies of photographs of the vehicle entering and leaving the site. • There is no evidence of landowner authority. After reviewing the parking operator’s evidence pack, the appellant expands on their grounds of appeal in further detail. The appellant has provided images of signage as evidence towards their appeal. The above evidence will be considered in making my decision.


Assessor supporting rational for decision
When assessing an appeal, POPLA considers if the parking operator has issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver has complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park. The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) 2012 is a law that allows parking operators to transfer the liability to the registered keeper in the event that the driver or hirer is not identified. Parking operators have to follow certain rules including warning the registered keeper that they will be liable if the parking operator is not provided with the name and address of the driver. In this case, the PCN in question has the necessary information and the parking operator has therefore successfully transferred the liability onto the registered keeper. The appellant says that the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with PoFA 2012 as it omits the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. However, the Notice to Keeper makes it clear that the keeper may be pursued for any parking charge amount that remains unpaid and failure to make payment may result in additional costs.


The appellant says that the signage is inadequate as the text is half the required size and a driver would not be able to see the entrance sign. I note that the appellant has referred to the new code of practice regarding signage. However, this is not yet applicable. The British Parking Association (BPA) has a Code of Practice which set the standards its parking operators need to comply with regarding signage. Section 19.2 of the Code says parking operators need to have entrance signs that make it clear a motorist is entering onto private land. In this case, the evidence provided by the appellant and the operator shows that an entrance sign is present within an appropriate place and makes clear that terms are applicable. Section 19.3 states that parking operators need to have signage that clearly set out the terms. After reviewing the signage provided by both parties, I can see that these clearly state that terms are applicable. Bold text makes it clear that the maximum stay is 90 minutes, and any breaches would result in a £100 PCN being issued. The parking operator has provided a site map and multiple images which show that signs are placed throughout site ensuring that motorists can review. Furthermore, I am satisfied that the signage complies with the Code of Practice.

The appellant states that there is no evidence of parking, and the operator has failed to include entry and exit images. They require full unredacted copies of photographs of the vehicle entering and leaving the site. The site in question is ANPR operated. Every accessible entry and exit point to this car park is managed by either an entry or exit camera which takes an infrared image of the vehicle registration as it passes by, which is why it is important that motorists enter their full, correct registration so this can be calibrated to the images of their vehicle obtained from the ANPR cameras to determine whether the vehicle did in fact pay for adequate or inadequate time. Independent research has found that ANPR technology is generally reliable. As I accept there is the possibility for inaccuracies, I am happy to accept any evidence that suggests the appellant’s vehicle was elsewhere for this duration of time. Two ANPR images featured on the PCN show the appellant’s vehicle registration XXXX XXX entering site at 14:28 and vacating at 16:35, 2 hours 7 minutes after arriving. However, no evidence has been provided by the appellant to show that the driver was in an alternative area between the time frames pictured on the PCN, so we are unable to presume that they were not on site after being pictured entering at 14:28 and not leaving until 2 hours 7 minutes later. As the appellant has not provided any evidence to the contrary, I will work on the basis that the information is accurate. As the driver was on site for 2 hours 7 minutes and exceeded the allowed maximum stay, a PCN was issued for breaching the displayed terms. The appellant says that there is no evidence of landowner authority.

The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice (The Code) sets the standards its parking operators need to comply with. Section 14.1 of the Code states that where controlled land is being managed on behalf of a landowner, written confirmation must be obtained before a parking charge can be issued. In this case, the document provided shows that the operator has sufficient authority to issue PCN’s. Within their comments to the operator’s evidence, the appellant has reiterated their grounds for appeal in further detail. Whilst I appreciate the appellant’s comments, as I have already addressed these grounds as part of my assessment, such comments have no bearing on POPLA’s outcome. As such, I have no further comments to make about these grounds at this stage. Based on the evidence provided by both parties towards the appeal, I am satisfied that a breach occurred as the driver exceeded the maximum stay. I conclude that the PCN was issued correctly and therefore, the appeal is refused.


The paragraph 9  issue was not addressed, but the Assessor has also completely ignored the fact that the signage requirements are the same through all previous versions of the COP and dismissed my argument wholesale simply becuase the current version doesnt apply until later this year.


Thoughts ?
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: b789 on December 17, 2025, 01:23:12 am
That’s good to go, for what it’s worth. As I have said in many identical ECP threads, POPLA is unlikely to be successful but if all the advice is followed and this runs the usual course of a claim eventually being issued and defended, it will eventually be struck out or discontinued.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on December 16, 2025, 12:57:34 pm
As expected, they have rejected my appeal. We now move on to POPLA.

Would you please review my POPLA appeal below ? many thanks.

I am the registered keeper of vehicle xxxxxxx and I dispute the above-referenced Parking Charge. The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that they cannot transfer liability for the charge to the keeper. I therefore dispute the charge on the following grounds :
1.   Non-Compliance with the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA)
2.   Inadequate signage
3.   No evidence of parking
4.   No evidence of landholder authority

Non-Compliance with POFA

Schedule 4 paragraph 9(2) is binary (“MUST” means all or nothing) and this NtK omits the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay under 9(2)(e)(i)

Schedule 4 paragraph 9(2) does not say the notice should include certain things. It says: “The notice must — (a)… (b)… (c)… (d)… (e)… (f)… (g)… (h)… (i)…”. “Must” is compulsory. PoFA 9(2) is a statutory gateway to keeper liability: either every required element is present or the gateway never opens. There is no such thing as “partial” or even “substantial compliance” with 9(2). Like pregnancy, it is binary: a notice is either PoFA-compliant or it is not. If one required limb is missing, the operator cannot use PoFA to pursue the keeper. End of.

Here the missing limb is 9(2)(e)(i). That sub-paragraph requires the NtK to invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. The law is explicit that the invitation must be directed to “the keeper”. It is not enough to tell “the driver” to pay; it must invite “the keeper” to pay if the creditor wants keeper liability.

What this NtK actually does is talk only to “the driver” when demanding payment, and nowhere invites “the keeper” to pay. The demand section of the NtK is framed in driver terms (e.g. language such as “the driver is required to pay within 28 days” / “payment is due from the driver”), and there is no sentence that invites “the keeper” to pay the unpaid parking charges. The word “keeper” (if used at all) appears only in neutral data/disclosure paragraphs or generic definitions, not in any invitation to pay. That omission is precisely what 9(2)(e)(i) forbids.

For the avoidance of doubt, 9(2)(e) contains two limbs: (i) an invitation to the keeper to pay, and (ii) an invitation to either identify and serve the driver and to pass the notice to the driver. Even setting aside 9(2)(e)(ii), the absence of the 9(2)(e)(i) keeper-payment invitation alone is fatal to PoFA compliance. The statute makes keeper liability contingent on strict satisfaction of every “must” in 9(2). Where a notice invites only “the driver” to pay, it fails 9(2)(e)(i), so it is not a PoFA notice. The operator therefore cannot transfer liability from an unidentified driver to the registered keeper. Only the driver could ever be liable; the driver is not identified. The keeper is not liable in law.

Inadequate Signage

I refer to Section 3 (signs and surface markings) of the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice Version 1.1 dated 17 February 2025 – the “COP”

The commentary states “Signs and surface markings must be designed, applied and maintained in such a way as to be visible, legible and unambiguous to drivers.”

Section 3.1.2 states “The size and positioning of the sign must take into account the expected speed and direction of travel of vehicles approaching the entrance and must be visible (i.e. not be obscured e.g. by foliage or other objects).”

Section 3.1.3 states “Signs within controlled land displaying the specific terms and conditions applying must:
a) be placed within the controlled land, such that drivers have the chance to
read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle;”

Section 3.2 states “Where different terms and conditions apply to adjoining stretches of controlled land where there is no physical segregation, signs and/or surface markings must be used by the parking operator within the controlled land for which they are responsible to delineate clearly between these premises and alert drivers to the terms and conditions applying.”

Section 3.4 in the note acknowledges “[…] the need to avoid confusion and clutter at entrances […]”

The signage at this location fails on all the above criteria.

There is a single entrance sign. It is not the sign included in the operator’s response to appeal – that is located elsewhere. According to the COP (Table A.2) this sign contains ‘group 1 text’ . The COP states that for “Car park entered from higher-speed road or using a length of access road”  the typical approach speed will be 25mph and the Group 1 text should be a minimum of 90mm. This car park is approached from just such a road and as can be seen from photograph 10, the Group 1 text is 45mm – half the required size.

The entrance to the land is shown in photograph 4 in context of the driver’s view. This is the view from 30 metres. It is obvious that a driver travelling at 20+ mph along this road, with the afternoon Winter sun directly ahead, will be looking at the jutting corner of the building, not at an obscure sign on the wall which is the wrong size, contrary to sections 3.1.2 and 3.1.3 of the COP.

This view is further made problematic by being mixed in with other signs. The Smart Charge company sign is much bigger and this company even felt the need to put a sign up on the opposite side of the road. In addition, there is much clutter of no parking signs around the area (see photographs 1-3) contrary to sections 3.2 and 3.4 of the COP. Its is ironic that the clutter of other signage has been created by the same parking operator.

There is no obligation to visit Sainsburys. Photographs 5-9 show the route this vehicle took to arrive at a parking space showing that it is perfectly possible (as happened in this case) to park where this car was and leave the site without seeing a single sign.

Considering the signage in place at this particular site against the requirements of the COP and PoFA, it is beyond any doubt that the signage is not sufficient to give adequate notice of the charge and bring the parking charge to the attention of the motorist.

No evidence of parking

I have seen examples of these ‘Notice to Keeper’ letters shown to me by friends. It seems to be common practice to include photos of the vehicle entering and leaving the site, together with a time stamp. Whilst evidence of entering and leaving site is not evidence of parking, EuroCarParks have failed to include even this basic information in their notice.

I require full unredacted copies of photographs of the vehicle entering and leaving the site which conform to Section 7.3 of the COP. Without these, we only have ECP’s word that an infringement has potentially been committed.

No evidence of Landowner authority

The operator is also put to strict proof, by means of contemporaneous and unredacted evidence, of a chain of authority flowing from the landowner of the "relevant land" to the operator. It is not accepted that the operator has adhered to the landowner’s definitions, exemptions, grace period, hours of operation, etc. and any instructions to cancel charges due to complaints nor that both the landowner and operator are in full compliance with planning permission granted against a Traffic Management Plan.

Section 14 of the COP  defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance. As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the “relevant land” then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner, to prove that they have the right to enforce the charge in court in their own name

I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on November 06, 2025, 06:28:35 pm
Thanks b789, I suspected that would be your reply !

Let the motions begin..... dashing off the fruitless appeal to ECP. WIll keep you in the loop.

Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: b789 on November 05, 2025, 08:40:24 pm
ECP NtKs are never fully compliant with PoFA. They all fail PoFA para 9(2)(e)(i). Whilst ECP would not agree and most POPLA assessors are too intellectually malnourished or plainly moronic to understand, you still go through the motions.

What I can assure you of, with greater than 99.9% certainly, is that if you follow the advice, you will not have to pay a penny to ECP.

For now, simply appeal to ECP. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. ECP has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. ECP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

When that is rejected, you will have 33 days to make a POPLA appeal, which for this operator would include the following point, amongst the others:

Quote
Schedule 4 paragraph 9(2) is binary (“MUST” means all or nothing) and this NtK omits the mandatory invitation to the keeper to pay under 9(2)(e)(i)

Schedule 4 paragraph 9(2) does not say the notice should include certain things. It says: “The notice must — (a)… (b)… (c)… (d)… (e)… (f)… (g)… (h)… (i)…”. “Must” is compulsory. PoFA 9(2) is a statutory gateway to keeper liability: either every required element is present or the gateway never opens. There is no such thing as “partial” or even “substantial compliance” with 9(2). Like pregnancy, it is binary: a notice is either PoFA-compliant or it is not. If one required limb is missing, the operator cannot use PoFA to pursue the keeper. End of.

Here the missing limb is 9(2)(e)(i). That sub-paragraph requires the NtK to invite the keeper to pay the unpaid parking charges. The law is explicit that the invitation must be directed to “the keeper”. It is not enough to tell “the driver” to pay; it must invite “the keeper” to pay if the creditor wants keeper liability.

What this NtK actually does is talk only to “the driver” when demanding payment, and nowhere invites “the keeper” to pay. The demand section of the NtK is framed in driver terms (e.g. language such as “the driver is required to pay within 28 days” / “payment is due from the driver”), and there is no sentence that invites “the keeper” to pay the unpaid parking charges. The word “keeper” (if used at all) appears only in neutral data/disclosure paragraphs or generic definitions, not in any invitation to pay. That omission is precisely what 9(2)(e)(i) forbids.

For the avoidance of doubt, 9(2)(e) contains two limbs: (i) an invitation to the keeper to pay, and (ii) an invitation to either identify and serve the driver and to pass the notice to the driver. Even setting aside 9(2)(e)(ii), the absence of the 9(2)(e)(i) keeper-payment invitation alone is fatal to PoFA compliance. The statute makes keeper liability contingent on strict satisfaction of every “must” in 9(2). Where a notice invites only “the driver” to pay, it fails 9(2)(e)(i), so it is not a PoFA notice. The operator therefore cannot transfer liability from an unidentified driver to the registered keeper. Only the driver could ever be liable; the driver is not identified. The keeper is not liable in law.
Title: Re: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: jfollows on November 05, 2025, 07:19:52 pm
OK, but in what way does it not comply with PoFA 2012?
Not saying that it doesn’t, but what are you going to say to POPLA when they reject your appeal?
Presumed delivered 31/10 so well within 14 days.
Title: EuroCarParks, Sainsburys, overstay
Post by: Sarf London on November 05, 2025, 06:56:03 pm
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I have just received a Notice to Keeper - copy attached.
The NtK arrived on day 14 and the alleged overstay was for 37 minutes.
This was a Sainsburys car park which used to be 120 mins free parking and was reduced to 90 minutes.
To be honest, the driver probably forgot that the time had reduced.


As It's ECP I presume I'm appealing to them fruitlessly that their NtK is non-compliant ?

"I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. ECP have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN."



NTK Page 1 https://ibb.co/Jj4MJfv9

NTK Page 2 https://ibb.co/XrF04NPZ

Thanks in advance guys .....