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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mdar50743 on November 05, 2023, 08:01:59 pm

Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on December 04, 2023, 12:27:26 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on November 30, 2023, 11:27:48 pm
They've not opened any of the links:

(https://i.imgur.com/qs76WBa.png)

The assertion that "I have considered what you have said and all the available evidence" is therefore an incontrovertible lie.

Definitely wait for the notice to owner.

OK. Then what would happen after I get Notice to Owner?
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on November 30, 2023, 11:27:48 pm
They've not opened any of the links:

(https://i.imgur.com/qs76WBa.png)

The assertion that "I have considered what you have said and all the available evidence" is therefore an incontrovertible lie.

Definitely wait for the notice to owner.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 30, 2023, 03:49:17 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on November 14, 2023, 07:18:11 pm
@mdar50743 sorry for the delay, it's a busy period at the moment.

Dear London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham,

I challenge liability for this PCN on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur, this is because The Hammersmith and Fulham (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Consolidation) Order 2020 does not create any parking zones. I refer you to the decisions in Josephine Dayan v London Borough of Barnet at LINK1, Philip Cohen v London Borough of Barnet at LINK2 and Alessandro Di Lieto v London Borough of Croydon at LINK3.

In light of the above the penalty charge notice must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

I will PM you the links to put in the representation, they will redirect to the decisions but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

Hi,

I got a reply from H&F Council.

https://ibb.co/RYQn4D6
https://ibb.co/hBgMrxN
https://ibb.co/m0Y3xsr



https://ibb.co/RYQn4D6
https://ibb.co/hBgMrxN
https://ibb.co/m0Y3xsr
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on November 14, 2023, 07:18:11 pm
@mdar50743 sorry for the delay, it's a busy period at the moment.

Dear London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham,

I challenge liability for this PCN on the basis that the alleged contravention did not occur, this is because The Hammersmith and Fulham (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Consolidation) Order 2020 does not create any parking zones. I refer you to the decisions in Josephine Dayan v London Borough of Barnet at LINK1, Philip Cohen v London Borough of Barnet at LINK2 and Alessandro Di Lieto v London Borough of Croydon at LINK3.

In light of the above the penalty charge notice must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

I will PM you the links to put in the representation, they will redirect to the decisions but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 11, 2023, 01:06:51 pm
Hi, can anyone help me with a draft for an appeal? Many thanks
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 08, 2023, 12:23:06 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on November 06, 2023, 10:45:48 pm
I think your best bet is the CPZ argument, which the council won't understand (so that will be a failure to consider).

I've also noticed in quite a few recent CPZ cases, the council has simply failed to provide adequate evidence of signage.

If you want to pursue this let us know and I'll draft something for you.

Hi CP, just wanted to know if you had a chance to make the draft?
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 07, 2023, 01:01:58 pm
Quote from: cp8759 on November 06, 2023, 10:45:48 pm
I think your best bet is the CPZ argument, which the council won't understand (so that will be a failure to consider).

I've also noticed in quite a few recent CPZ cases, the council has simply failed to provide adequate evidence of signage.

If you want to pursue this let us know and I'll draft something for you.

Thank you for your reply.

I think you're definitely more experienced than me in this so will take your advice on th CPZ argument.

If you could draft something that would be very kind of you. I would really appreciate it. Many thanks  :)
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on November 06, 2023, 10:45:48 pm
I think your best bet is the CPZ argument, which the council won't understand (so that will be a failure to consider).

I've also noticed in quite a few recent CPZ cases, the council has simply failed to provide adequate evidence of signage.

If you want to pursue this let us know and I'll draft something for you.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 06, 2023, 12:46:18 pm
Quote from: John U.K. on November 06, 2023, 12:14:46 pm
We need to turn to the 'small print' on the PCN, wherein there may be errors, possibly fatal to its enforcement.

The image you posted is out of focus in the lower half :(
Please repost a clearer image and also the other side.

That said, is this your first time in Greater London (which is almost entirely covered by CPZs) or a large conurbation?

Apology, I don't have a great camera on my phone. I have attached a photo of the blurred section.

Unfortunately, I live in Greater London but this is the first time in this London Borough.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: John U.K. on November 06, 2023, 12:14:46 pm
We need to turn to the 'small print' on the PCN, wherein there may be errors, possibly fatal to its enforcement.

The image you posted is out of focus in the lower half :(
Please repost a clearer image and also the other side.

That said, is this your first time in Greater London (which is almost entirely covered by CPZs) or a large conurbation?
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 06, 2023, 11:55:21 am
Quote from: cp8759 on November 06, 2023, 12:48:21 am
Quote from: mdar50743 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:11 pm
I have never been to this borough before and never checked the H&F map as it was a Sunday and it was a yellow line. I never saw the signs at any of the points when I crossed the boundary of zone.
Whether you saw the signs is neither here nor there. Please try and work out exactly where you entered the zone and then we can look into whether the zone is adequately signed.

The traffic order is The Hammersmith and Fulham (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Consolidation) Order 2020 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Xz7QHxOdRP3wD1KsiYBEfxmwJMToHDVN), which doesn't appear to create any zones at all. Therefore the CPZ argument as per Josephine Dayan v London Borough of Barnet (2220227611, 18 May 2022) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1xgRJ1kvV_0gf4wY4oC8hU7c2A5n71o9p), Philip Cohen v London Borough of Barnet (2230112354, 29 March 2023) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Gte-7rkN3Kte8TV5fD2gOdoBtEwGlGIX) and Alessandro Di Lieto v London Borough of Croydon (2230436990, 04 November 2023) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1HKnt95nfr3nr-dCztz--L1AtrvedJkTB) could be used. However this is not a universally held view, in Arie Cohen v London Borough of Barnet (2230309665, 27 July 2023) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1I27VdQE3IkIE1qOxVRkNJE4j34J8dabZ) adjudicator Teresa Brennan rejected it, so it's best to argue the signage as well if we possibly can.

Thank you for your reply.

I've done exactly what you suggested and checked my route coming in to the area. I have attached the photo.

If I am honest, I didn't see this sign. The sign was not clear enough as I was driving at 20 pmh and there was a pelican crossing so I was checking for people crossing and speed camera in front of me.

I just wanted to know what is the understanding of a clear sign.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: cp8759 on November 06, 2023, 12:48:21 am
Quote from: mdar50743 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:11 pm
I have never been to this borough before and never checked the H&F map as it was a Sunday and it was a yellow line. I never saw the signs at any of the points when I crossed the boundary of zone.
Whether you saw the signs is neither here nor there. Please try and work out exactly where you entered the zone and then we can look into whether the zone is adequately signed.

The traffic order is The Hammersmith and Fulham (Waiting and Loading Restriction) (Consolidation) Order 2020 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Xz7QHxOdRP3wD1KsiYBEfxmwJMToHDVN), which doesn't appear to create any zones at all. Therefore the CPZ argument as per Josephine Dayan v London Borough of Barnet (2220227611, 18 May 2022) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1xgRJ1kvV_0gf4wY4oC8hU7c2A5n71o9p), Philip Cohen v London Borough of Barnet (2230112354, 29 March 2023) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1Gte-7rkN3Kte8TV5fD2gOdoBtEwGlGIX) and Alessandro Di Lieto v London Borough of Croydon (2230436990, 04 November 2023) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1HKnt95nfr3nr-dCztz--L1AtrvedJkTB) could be used. However this is not a universally held view, in Arie Cohen v London Borough of Barnet (2230309665, 27 July 2023) (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1I27VdQE3IkIE1qOxVRkNJE4j34J8dabZ) adjudicator Teresa Brennan rejected it, so it's best to argue the signage as well if we possibly can.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: Incandescent on November 05, 2023, 11:13:40 pm
Not seeing the signs, and the signs not being there to see, are two different things. The latter means you would win an adjudication, for the former, you would have to show the signs were positioned in such a way as to make it difficult or impossible for a prudent and careful  motorist to see.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 05, 2023, 10:21:11 pm
Quote from: Pastmybest on November 05, 2023, 09:44:19 pm
CPZ JJ Monday to Sunday 9 til 9

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=19Azi5jTTEnWfrjOLNqy-CG5btpw21Q_6&ll=51.506887601714084%2C-0.23178299999999208&z=16

I have never been to this borough before and never checked the H&F map as it was a Sunday and it was a yellow line. I never saw the signs at any of the points when I crossed the boundary of zone.

Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: Pastmybest on November 05, 2023, 09:44:19 pm
CPZ JJ Monday to Sunday 9 til 9

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=19Azi5jTTEnWfrjOLNqy-CG5btpw21Q_6&ll=51.506887601714084%2C-0.23178299999999208&z=16
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: John U.K. on November 05, 2023, 09:22:00 pm
Did you look at the H&F map?  A CPZ (Controlled Parking Zone) covers a group of streets, and signs are only required at the point the motorist crosses the boundary of zone.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 05, 2023, 08:56:51 pm
Quote from: John U.K. on November 05, 2023, 08:17:22 pm
You will have parked in a CPZ.
Take a look at
https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/parking/pay-and-display/map-controlled-parking-zones

and determine where you entered the zone. At that point there should have been a sign with the CPZ hours.

Thank you for your reply.

That's the issue. There was no signs at the entrance of the road or on the road anywhere. I did take pics. I have never got a pcn and this council borough is a place I've never been.

If there's any defence and if anyone has experience who's gone through this or successfully appealed, any letter would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: John U.K. on November 05, 2023, 08:17:22 pm
You will have parked in a CPZ.
Take a look at
https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/parking/pay-and-display/map-controlled-parking-zones

and determine where you entered the zone. At that point there should have been a sign with the CPZ hours.
Title: Contravention Code 01 - Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours
Post by: mdar50743 on November 05, 2023, 08:01:59 pm
Hi everyone,

I got a PCN today - Contravention Code 01: Parked in a Restricted Street during prescribed hours.

Location - https://maps.app.goo.gl/U69V8k5h5UfaCdzw7

I parked on Sunday 05 November at 14.34pm on a single yellow line (Stanlake Villas) in Shepherds Bush, West London (Hammersmith & Fulham).

My defence is that I couldn’t see any road markings or signs at the entrance or exit anywhere on the roads. I tool pics to show prove this.

I just wanted to ask if anyone had experienced this and if someone has any appeal letters they could share.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

[attachment deleted by admin]