Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: RT on November 01, 2025, 10:08:47 am

Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: InterCity125 on January 14, 2026, 07:04:02 pm
The Assessor has totally misrepresented Elliot v Loake. He should have instead reviewed VCS v Edward.



This taken from another case...


You refer to Elliot v Loake (1982) as case law which supports the view that the owner of the vehicle, if there is no contrary evidence, is the driver.

This is an incorrect representation of the case for the following reasons:

The facts of the case are that the appeal judge ruled that the appellant was the driver because of the ample evidence that he was the driver, and not, as you incorrectly state, because of the lack of evidence as to who the driver actually was.

In the case there was ample evidence that justified the magistrates to conclude that this man was driving his blue sports car on the night when it collided with the stationary car.

Additionally, a crucial part of the case was that forensic evidence showed that the appellant lied. Other material facts were that the driver had the only keys in his possession that night and that no-one else had permission to drive the car.

This case does not therefore introduce any binding legal principal as this case turned on its own facts. If any principle can be adduced, it is the well known principle that once a witness has been proven to have lied in one respect, it is likely that their evidence elsewhere is also false.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on January 14, 2026, 06:31:40 pm
No one really cares what the IAS are going to think or decide.. . .

Evening - I've finally received an update from the IAS - and - as you suspected - the appeal outcome is Dismissed and common sense has not prevailed. See below for their full response.

I'd love some guidance on where I go from here - presumably the original oporator will waste no time at all and be in touch swiftly, no doubt trying to obtain hundreds of pounds - or will that happen after the 28 day period? I can only assume I now ignore that and wait for them to take me to some sort of court?

Your help is always very much appreciated. . .




Dear Richard,

The Independent Appeals Service (IAS) has received a decision from the Independent Adjudicator regarding your recent appeal for the below PCN.

Parking Charge Number (PCN): 583280
Vehicle Registration: R###
Date Issued: 30/10/2025

Appeal Outcome: Dismissed

The Adjudicators comments are as follows:
"The Appellant should understand that the Adjudicator is not in a position to give legal advice to either of the parties but they are entitled to seek their own independent legal advice. The Adjudicator's role is to consider whether or not the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each individual case. In all Appeals the Adjudicator is bound by the relevant law applicable at the time and is only able to consider legal challenges and not factual mistakes nor extenuating or mitigating circumstances. Throughout this appeal the Operator has had the opportunity consider all points raised and could have conceded the appeal at any stage. The Adjudicator who deals with this Appeal is legally qualified and each case is dealt with according to their understanding of the law as it applies and the legal principles involved. A decision by an Adjudicator is not legally binding on an Appellant who is entitled to seek their own legal advice if they so wish.

I am satisfied that the Appellant was parked in an area where the Operator has authority to issue Parking Charge Notices and to take the necessary steps to enforce them.

The Appellant accepts that he was the keeper of this vehicle but denies that at the time of the incident he was the driver. In the case of ELLIOTT v LOAKE in 1982 the principle was established that in the absence of sufficient evidence to the contrary the keeper of a vehicle is assumed to be the driver of that vehicle at the time of an incident such as arises in this Appeal. The burden of proof is then on the keeper of the vehicle to prove on the balance of probabilities that he/she was not the driver at the time of the incident. In this case such evidence has not been provided by the Appellant to establish that he was not the driver and therefore the Operator is entitled to assume that as the registered keeper he was also the driver.

Images have been provided to me by the Operator which shows the signage displayed on this site. After viewing those images I am satisfied that the signage is sufficient to have brought to the attention of the Appellant the terms and conditions that apply to parking on this site.

The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that drivers must make a valid payment for the full duration of their stay. In the photographs provided to me I can see that the Appellant entered the site at 10:33 and exited at 11:32; a total stay of 59 minutes. In the data provided I can see that no payment was made for the Appellant's VRN. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that they make a valid payment for their parking session and otherwise conform with the terms and conditions of the Operator's signage displayed at this site. Mitigating/extenuating circumstances cannot be taken into account. Whilst I appreciate that an attempt at payment may have been made by the driver, evidence of a pending payment e.g. on mobile banking, is not sufficient. The Appellant has not provided any other evidence that he/the driver was entitled to believe he had purchased a valid parking session. The Appellant raises as an issue the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and purports that the site is not relevant land within the meaning of Schedule 4 as well as suggesting that the Operator has not complied with the other requirements therein such as the timescale to send the NTK. I must point out that whilst the Act does need to be complied with including the site being within the definition of relevant land, in cases where the Operator wishes to avail themselves of the keeper liability provisions under Schedule 4, they are not obliged to do so where they do not. Instead, the Operator is entitled to rely either on the legal presumption that the keeper of the vehicle was also the driver (which they are entitled to do in the absence of credible evidence to the contrary) or on an acceptance that they were driving at the material time. On the present facts, the compliance or otherwise with the Act, is not a relevant issue. As such, on the basis of the evidence provided, I am satisfied that the Appellant breached the displayed terms and conditions and that the PCN was correctly issued on this occasion.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am satisfied that the Operator has established that the Parking Charge Notice was properly issued in accordance with the law and therefore this Appeal is dismissed.
"

As your appeal has been dismissed, the Independent Adjudicator has found, upon the evidence provided, that the parking charge was lawfully incurred.

As this appeal has not been resolved in your favour, the IAS is unable to intervene further in this matter.

You should contact the operator within 28 days to make payment of the charge.

Should you continue to contest the charge then you should consider obtaining independent legal advice.

Yours Sincerely,
The Independent Appeals Service



Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: b789 on November 24, 2025, 06:10:29 pm
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Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 24, 2025, 06:00:08 pm

Trust me, if I lived near Padstow, I'd go and get a PCN from them at the same location and let them take me to court and then slap them with a Summary Judgment application and get my costs and £750 because I'd do it before allocation to track.
[/quote]

Thank you again b789 - very much appreciated. Further details added word for word. Though, again, they didn't make it easy as they have disabled copy + paste, so requires typing out, again with a 1000 word limit. I'll endeavour to keep a closer eye on my inbox this time!


Thanks again
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: b789 on November 24, 2025, 10:43:21 am
No one really cares what the IAS are going to think or decide. There is one simple fact that you must remain aware of, and that is that as long as the driver has not been identified, there is no Keeper liability.

Who cares whether they claim that the Keeper identified as the driver. Put them to strict proof. They will always simply say the driver is identified.

You seem to have put in your head that the IAS and this scamming unregulated private parking firm of ex-clampers are somehow going to play fair. Stop being so gullible. You have been warned that the IAS is nothing but a corrupt arm of the IPC and their adjudicators are anonymous liars pretending to be solicitors. They aren't.

Simply say the following as your response to their prima facie case:

Quote
Before any alleged “breach of contract” can be entertained, the assessor must first determine whether the appellant can be liable at all:

Padstow Harbour car park is on harbour-byelaw land (Padstow Port & Harbour Byelaws; Padstow Harbour Revision Order 1987). Land under statutory control is not “relevant land” for Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Sch 4, para 3(1)(c) and 3(3)). The operator expressly states it is not relying on PoFA. There is therefore no statutory route to hold the registered keeper liable. Unless the driver is identified with admissible evidence, the appeal must be allowed at this threshold stage without considering any alleged contractual terms.

Operator’s false assertion about driver identity:

The operator’s statement that “the appellant was the driver” is untrue. The appellant has never identified as the driver. ANPR stills and speculation about who was at the wheel do not constitute driver identification. There is no legal presumption that the keeper was the driver; courts have rejected attempts to infer identity or to misuse Elliott v Loake / CPS v AJH Films. Persuasive appellate authority (e.g. VCS v Edward (2023)) confirms that, absent a clear admission or cogent identification evidence, a claimant cannot meet its burden merely from keeper status or photos of occupants.

Assessor’s duty and transparency:

The IAS represents that appeals are decided by legally qualified assessors. If the assessor is a solicitor (or higher), they will know that, on non-relevant land with PoFA not invoked, there is no keeper liability; only an identified driver can be pursued. If the appeal is to be rejected notwithstanding these fundamentals, the decision should state plainly (a) the admissible evidence said to identify the driver, and (b) the legal basis for any keeper liability on non-relevant land when PoFA is not relied upon.

Outcome:

Non-relevant land + no PoFA + no driver identification = no claim against the keeper. Cancel the PCN.

If they accept and cancel the PCN, great. GO and buy a lottery ticket because you have beaten the odds. If they reject, which is the most likely scenario, who cares? Their decision is not binding on you and you do not pay.

They have absolutely no basis in law to pursue you as the Keeper. End of. Let them try and take you to court. They would receive a spanking if they tried that.

Trust me, if I lived near Padstow, I'd go and get a PCN from them at the same location and let them take me to court and then slap them with a Summary Judgment application and get my costs and £750 because I'd do it before allocation to track.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 24, 2025, 08:12:15 am


Don't worry about the tone. This is a challenge written for the record, not for their approval.
[/quote]

Morning B789 - Unfortunately, due to work commitments I have only just now noticed the appeal response - which only gives me today to reply further. Any further advice will be greatly appreciated -

See their response below - they are it seems assuming I was the driver, and neglecting to accept the basic principal that their terminal offered no such message of failed payment, or that the merchant services have failed to accept the authorised payment presented to them.
They have also stated their records show the payment to have been 'aborted' and then infer that this is the same as failed - two completely different things, at least as far as I'm aware and according to the english dictionary. Link to their 'proof' on this matter: https://ibb.co/0yL8L2d2


The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 18/11/2025 21:12:10.

The operator reported that...
The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
ANPR/CCTV was used.
The Notice to Keeper was sent on 30/10/2025.
A response was received from the Notice to Keeper.
The ticket was issued on 30/10/2025.
The charge is based in Contract.

The operator made the following comments...
As detailed on the clear and prominent signage (the contract), drivers agree to pay a Parking Charge of £100 if 'payment for the duration of your vehicle's stay has not been made in full'.

The appellants' vehicle occupied the car park for 58 minutes on 22/10/2025. The attached search of our payment records details that no payment was made; therefore, the Parking Charge was issued correctly.

In response to the appellants' pertinent comments:

* The appellants' multiple references to POFA are of no relevance to this matter, as we are not utilising the Act, nor have we suggested that we are. The use of POFA is not mandatory, as per para 4(6) of the Act:

"Nothing in this paragraph affects any other remedy the creditor may have against the keeper of the vehicle or any other person in respect of any unpaid parking charges (but this is not to be read as permitting double recovery)."

* The appellant is the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. The image of the vehicle entering the car park shows a male driver and a female passenger. The appellant has confirmed that they were present; indeed, they have submitted a screenshot of an attempted payment from their own mobile phone. As such, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it is 'more probable than not' (the standard of proof in these matters) that the appellant was indeed the driver.

* It is nonsensical to suggest that we do not have authority from the landowner. No landowner would tolerate the installation of signage and 4 ANPR cameras. Not to mention the fact that we use their power supply. That said, the Adjudicator has sight of our contract with the landowner, which meets the requirements of the applicable Code of Practice, which is not the "PPSCoP" as this is not a new site.

* The time and date of the ANPR is updated in real time via the Network Time Protocol, much like a mobile phone; therefore, it is always 100% accurate. No 'Grace Period' applies, as no payment was made for parking.

* The screenshot of a payment submitted by the appellant is a 'Pending Payment', as the attached 'RK66LDN-Aborted Payment' confirms that this transaction was aborted (i.e. failed), as confirmed by the appellant's own 'PHC Bank Alert' that they have uploaded. The appellant was informed that their transaction had failed via the terminal's LCD screen, with the appellant conceding in their initial appeal to us that the terminal did not issue a receipt.

In light of the above and attached, we trust that this appeal will be dismissed as it has no merit.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 11, 2025, 07:01:19 pm


Don't worry about the tone. This is a challenge written for the record, not for their approval.

Thank you for your efforts yet again b789. I have submitted the IAS appeal online just now.
I had to trim the middle and end a little, as there is a 1000 word limit on their appeal.
I also attached the same screenshots that have previously been pooh-pooh'd by AP.

Interesting that they immediately try to capture driver details in the process of registering- I say interesting, why woulnd't they! And that by submitting online, you also waive your right to appeal physically, rather than digitally.

Oh - and one also has to agree to cookies and sign up to their site as well in the process. Magical.

I'll let you know how I get on.


Thanks again
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: b789 on November 11, 2025, 05:43:32 pm
I think my main question is, as this progresses - am I likely to expect debt collectors to be knocking on my door or trying to 'remove' things? Don't fancy having a barny with folks in the street if they start trying to stick clamps and such on vehicles.

Oh dear... and this is how these firms prey on the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and intimidate them into paying out of ignorance and fear.

Why no bailiff can knock on your door

1. County Court Judgment (CCJ):

• A bailiff (enforcement agent) can only get involved after a creditor has obtained a CCJ against you in a county court.
• If the CCJ is under £600, the creditor cannot transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by a High Court Enforcement Officer (HCEO). Instead, enforcement would remain under the county court's jurisdiction.

2. Threshold for High Court Enforcement:

• If a CCJ is over £600 (including fees and interest), the creditor can transfer it to the High Court for enforcement by an HCEO. This is a common method because HCEOs tend to be more effective at recovering money.

3. Cost-Benefit Analysis for Creditors:

• For CCJs under £600, creditors may find it uneconomical to pursue enforcement through county court bailiffs, as they are generally slower and less effective than HCEOs.
• As a result, creditors may opt not to escalate enforcement for small amounts.

4. Private Parking Charges and Bailiffs:

• In the context of private parking charges, no bailiff action can occur unless the parking operator has gone to court, won a case, obtained a CCJ, and you fail to pay the judgment within the stipulated time (usually 30 days).

So, no bailiff will come to your door for a debt under £600 unless the creditor deems it worth pursuing through county court enforcement. However, even if the debt is over £600, bailiff involvement only happens after a CCJ is issued, and enforcement is transferred to the High Court.

Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.
• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.
•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).
• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.
• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.
No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).
• This is a warning that they may start a court case.
• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.
No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.
• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.
• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).
No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.
• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.
No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.
• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.
• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.
• The person loses or ignores the case.
• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.

So, back to your case... They have no case. The driver is not identified and they cannot relay on PoFA to hold the Keeper liable if the driver is not identified. You have a clear cut case and this would never reach a hearing in court because it would be struck out before anything else. There is no case to answer.

Of course, they hope you are to ignorant or fearful to know that.

So, on to the useless IAS kangaroo court appeal. For what it is worth, just send the following:

Quote
Preliminary issue – non-relevant land / no keeper liability:

This PCN concerns Padstow Harbour car park, which forms part of the Padstow Harbour “harbour estate” (defined in the byelaws as “the docks, piers, wharves, quays… roads… and the lands, buildings and property… vested in or occupied by the Commissioners for the purposes of the Port”). Parking on the harbour estate is controlled by local byelaws. In particular, Padstow Port & Harbour Byelaws 1991 byelaw 43 provides:

“43. (1) No person shall park or leave a vehicle in any place where it is likely to obstruct or interfere with the use of the harbour estate, or in any part of the harbour estate where the parking of vehicles is prohibited and notice of such prohibition has been erected by the harbour master.
(2) Any notice erected under paragraph (1) of this byelaw shall be conspicuously posted in or in proximity to the place to which it relates.
(3) If the harbour master so directs, the owner of a vehicle parked or left in contravention of paragraph (1) of this byelaw shall remove the same… and if the owner fails to comply… the harbour master may remove the vehicle.”

The Commissioners’ statutory power to make byelaws “for regulating the movement, speed and parking of vehicles within the harbour estate” derives from the Padstow Harbour Revision Order 1987, article 18(m).

Under Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, “relevant land” expressly excludes “any land… on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control”: see para 3(1)(c), with para 3(3) defining “statutory control” to include liabilities imposed by statutory provisions (criminal or civil) in respect of parking. Padstow Harbour car park is therefore not “relevant land” and there is no statutory route to hold the registered keeper liable. Unless the operator produces admissible evidence identifying the driver, this appeal must be allowed at the threshold.

However, I am led to believe that the IAS is not truly independent and that the adjudicators are not really solicitors or barristers. If they were, they would not be so hesitant as to keep their identity secret. So, if the "Preliminary Issue" is not enough to get this PCN cancelled, I continue with the following:

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full.

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a contravention occurred, that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver, and that it has lawful authority to operate and issue Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) in its own name. I therefore require the operator to provide the following:

1. Strict proof of clear, prominent, and adequate signage that was in place on the date in question, at the exact location of the alleged contravention. This must include a detailed site plan showing the placement of each sign and legible images of the signs in situ. The operator must demonstrate that signage was visible, legible, and compliant with the IPC Code of Practice that was valid at the time of the alleged contravention, including requirements relating to font size, positioning, and the communication of key terms.

2. Strict proof of a valid, contemporaneous contract or lease flowing from the landowner that authorises the operator to manage parking, issue PCNs, and pursue legal action in its own name. I refer the operator and the IAS assessor to Section 14 of the PPSCoP (Relationship with Landowner), which clearly sets out mandatory minimum requirements that must be evidenced before any parking charge may be issued on controlled land.

In particular, Section 14.1(a)–(j) requires the operator to have in place written confirmation from the landowner which includes:

• the identity of the landowner,
• a boundary map of the land to be managed,
• applicable byelaws,
• the duration and scope of authority granted,
• detailed parking terms and conditions including any specific permissions or exemptions,
• the means of issuing PCNs,
• responsibility for obtaining planning and advertising consents,
• and the operator’s obligations and appeal procedure under the Code.

These requirements are not optional. They are a condition precedent to issuing a PCN and bringing any associated action. Accordingly, I put the operator to strict proof of compliance with the entirety of Section 14 of the PPSCoP. Any document that contains redactions must not obscure the above conditions. The document must also be dated and signed by identifiable persons, with evidence of their authority to act on behalf of the parties to the agreement. The operator must provide an agreement showing clear authorisation from the landowner for this specific site.

3. Strict proof that the enforcement mechanism (e.g. ANPR or manual patrol) is reliable, synchronised, maintained, and calibrated regularly. The operator must prove the vehicle was present for the full duration alleged and not simply momentarily on site, potentially within a permitted consideration or grace period as defined by the PPSCoP.

4. Strict proof that the Notice to Keeper complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), if the operator is attempting to rely on keeper liability. Any failure to comply with the mandatory wording or timelines in Schedule 4 of PoFA renders keeper liability unenforceable.

5. Strict proof that the NtK was posted in time for it to have been given within the relevant period. The PPSCoP section 8.1.2(d) Note 2 requires that the operator must retain a record of the date of posting of a notice, not simply of that notice having been generated (e.g. the date that any third-party Mail Consolidator actually put it in the postal system.)

6. The IAS claims that its assessors are “qualified solicitors or barristers.” Yet there is no way to verify this. Decisions are unsigned, anonymised, and unpublished. There is no transparency, no register of assessors, and no way for a motorist to assess the legal credibility of the individual supposedly adjudicating their appeal. If the person reading this really is legally qualified, they will know that without strict proof of landowner authority (VCS v HMRC [2013] EWCA Civ 186), no claim can succeed. They will also know that clear and prominent signage is a prerequisite for contract formation (ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67), and that keeper liability under PoFA is only available where strict statutory conditions are met.

If the assessor chooses to overlook these legal requirements and accept vague assertions or redacted documents from the operator, that will speak for itself—and lend further weight to the growing concern that this appeals service is neither independent nor genuinely legally qualified.

In short, I dispute this charge in its entirety and require full evidence of compliance with the law, industry codes of practice, and basic contractual principles.

Don't worry about the tone. This is a challenge written for the record, not for their approval.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: jfollows on November 11, 2025, 11:36:00 am


I think my main question is, as this progresses - am I likely to expect debt collectors to be knocking on my door or trying to 'remove' things? Don't fancy having a barny with folks in the street if they start trying to stick clamps and such on vehicles.


Many thanks again in advance of any guidance
No, simply put.

These companies have no more power to do this than I have if I write to you demanding money and you don’t pay.

As this progresses you may get letters from debt collectors, but they are completely powerless and you will be advised to ignore them.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 11, 2025, 11:22:19 am
You’ve done everything you can. Wait and see what you receive next.

As already pointed out, you cannot be liable as the keeper as long as the driver is not identified. That’s the law.



Thanks again b789.

I have today received my appeal response letter from Alliance Parking. The response is here:

https://ibb.co/Q7VBPPgR

The reverse is a copy of their Tc's and C's as before.

This is odd for a couple of reasons - given that, they clearly state that they don't accept appeals through their e-mail - though they must have on this occasion.
The letter is dated 03/11 (issued on 30/10 apparently) and was sent in a first class pre-paid envelope. Received today (11/11)

Their claim that the machine told us on screen that the transaction had not been completed is 100% innacurate. It asked if we would like a receipt, we said yes, it did not give us a receipt. There was no mention that this hadn't been completed, and authorised transaction alert on the mobile from my bank would suggest the same.


Presumably now I must submit a further appeal to the IAS?


I think my main question is, as this progresses - am I likely to expect debt collectors to be knocking on my door or trying to 'remove' things? Don't fancy having a barny with folks in the street if they start trying to stick clamps and such on vehicles.


Many thanks again in advance of any guidance 
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: b789 on November 10, 2025, 08:00:11 am
You’ve done everything you can. Wait and see what you receive next.

As already pointed out, you cannot be liable as the keeper as long as the driver is not identified. That’s the law.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 10, 2025, 07:56:22 am
Just a quick update - there is no Update. I've had zero communication back from Alliance Parking, and I am still met with the same message when entering details to challenge via their appeals website.


I have also e-mailed the commisioners office directly, laying out the scenario and requesting details of how to make good the situation, along with a request that they cancel any further action from Alliance given the situation. I have had zero communication back from them as well. . . .
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 03, 2025, 05:32:53 pm
The end game is that you do not have to pay a penny to anyone for the PCN. . . . . .


Thanks again for this b789. I shall duly respond today and no doubt come back when/if they reject appeal accordingly.


Interestingly, I submitted the 'Appeal' directly today to info@alliance-parking.co.uk and received an auto response, advising that appeals cannot be made via the mailbox. And that I should raise the appeal directly at www.alliance-parking.co.uk/appeals.

Clearly didn't read things right - the back of their charge letter does state this. So . . .Off I go to 'appeal' again in the correct place - duly entering my reference number and vehicle reg - and I was greeted with this message:

https://ibb.co/NnFcdW4Q

Now - I don't know if the 'appeal' sent to them via e-mail, was strong enough for them to just cancel the Parking charge (I seriously doubt this is the case, but remain hopefull!) or - if there is now some glitch in the system preventing me from appealing correctly - or - a plot of some sort to make it as difficult as possible to actively and fully appeal, per their made up T's & C's. 

I shall report back after follow up if there is any news.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 03, 2025, 07:53:02 am
The end game is that you do not have to pay a penny to anyone for the PCN. . . . . .


Thanks again for this b789. I shall duly respond today and no doubt come back when/if they reject appeal accordingly.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: b789 on November 02, 2025, 05:33:33 pm
The end game is that you do not have to pay a penny to anyone for the PCN. You are now caught up in a scam. Do not think for one minute that this unregulated private parking firm of ex-clampers has any customer service ethos. Their only objective is to get som money from you, most likely because you are unaware of your rights and you are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree that can be intimidated into paying up out of ignorance and fear.

As Alliance are IPC members, they are not going to give up easily. Any initial appeal will be rejected, simply because there is no money in it for them to accept it. The IAS is owned by the same firm that owns the IPC. There is no "independent" appeal. The IAS operates anonymously whilst claiming, mendaciously, that their adjudicators are legally trained to solicitor or even barrister level. They are not, but you have no way of verifying this.

Once the appeals have been exhausted, they will resort to sending useless debt recovery letters. You can safely ignore all debt collectors. They are powerless to do anything. They are not a party to the contract allegedly breached by the driver. They have zero standing except to intimidate the ignorant and fearful into capitulation. They cannot do anything. Ignore them. Never, ever enter into communication with a powerless debt collector. You can safely shred any correspondence from them and use it as hamster bedding for all anyone cares.

They are most likely to going to go all the way to issue a county court claim for an alleged debt. This is very good news. It is their last attempt at scaring you into paying the charge. They will use a bulk litigator and I can tell you with greater than 99.9 certainly, that the claim will never reach a hearing. There is no case to answer and the claim will be either struck out or discontinued.

Here is why there can be no liability to you as the registered keeper. South Quay car park is on land controlled by the Padstow Harbour Commissioners and therefore falls under statutory harbour control. As such it is not “relevant land” for the purposes of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, so keeper liability under PoFA cannot be invoked there.

The Harbour Commissioners themselves record and manage “South Quay Car Park, Padstow” (e.g. ANPR/pay-on-exit changes and site works), confirming it is their site.

PHC’s published schedules explicitly list “SOUTH QUAY CAR PARK” among their charges. The current Harbour Revision Order documentation vests the Commissioners with statutory powers over “parking places” and the “parking of vehicles” within the port—i.e. the area is subject to statutory control, which excludes it from PoFA “relevant land”.

As there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm, the burden of proof that the Keeper was the driver falls on the operator. How do you imagine that could do that? Unless the Keeper identifies the driver, they have no way of proving it. They are not allowed to infer or assume.

Alliance’s NtK doesn’t rely on PoFA, therefore they cannot make the keeper liable; they must prove, on evidence, that the keeper was the driver. A legally embarrsing claim that “in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the Keeper was the driver” reverses the burden of proof and is legally incorrect. Courts have repeatedly rejected that approach (e.g. VCS v Edward, 2023 (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/zra61px7l3if53o3bp9c4/VCS-v-EDWARD-Transcript.pdf?rlkey=bv4bba389nau5qpfglqkpjq5l&st=mwerd19u&dl=0)). It’s open to a court to find a keeper was the driver on actual evidence, but not by mere presumption.

This is something we deal with daily and we have a very high success rate for anyone who follows the advice we give. If you need a list of the reasons why the Keeper cannot be liable for the charge:

• PoFA 2012, Sch.4 para 3(1)(c): “‘Relevant land’ means any land … other than … any land on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.”

• PoFA 2012, Sch.4 para 3(3): Parking is “subject to statutory control if any statutory provision imposes a liability (criminal or civil, fee/charge or penalty) in respect of parking on that land…”.

• Padstow Harbour Revision Order 1987, art. 17(m): The Commissioners may make byelaws “for regulating the movement, speed and parking of vehicles within the harbour estate.” (Statutory control over parking.)

• Padstow HRO 1987, preliminaries: “Harbour estate” includes roads, quays and lands vested in or occupied by the Commissioners for the purposes of the Port (defining the area of control).

• PHC Schedule of Rates (2024) – Addendum: Lists “SOUTH QUAY CAR PARK / ROCK QUARRY CAR PARK / COMMISSIONERS QUAY, WADEBRIDGE” with tariffs (i.e., the Commissioners operate/charge for South Quay car park).

• Current HRO process (GOV.UK page): Confirms the MMO draft HRO would continue/modernise statutory powers, including over “parking places, vehicles” within the Port—underscoring the existing statutory regime.

So, for the initial appeal, what I have advised is all you need. It clearly identifies the appellant as keeper only.
• Denies liability or contract formation.
• States non-compliance with PoFA in categorical terms.
• Refuses any inference about the driver’s identity.
• Highlights the absurdity of pursuing a non-driver under false legal assumptions.

Considering that the IAS is a kangaroo court, you can include your evidence that payment for parking was duly authorised by your bank for “Padstow Harbour Commis”; the merchant failed to capture the authorised funds, and the authorisation expired, for what it's worth (IAS approves less than 4% of appeals).

Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 02, 2025, 10:51:45 am
DO NOT, under any circumstances, identify the driver. They only know that you are the registered keeper. They have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them inadvertently or otherwise. ONLY the driver can be liable as the location is not relevant land under PoFA 2012 and therefore you cannot be liable as the Keeper. Also, their Notice to Keeper (NtK) doesn't seek to even try and rely on PoFA to hold you liable as the Keeper.

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Alliance Parking has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Alliance have no hope should you be so stupid as to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Come back when they reject that.

Thanks for this B789. I'm not usually the type to poke the bear but I shall indeed forward as is.
Couple of questions before I do so if you don't mind me asking, just so I'm aware -

What's the end game? i.e. where does this lead in next steps.

Is it worth at this stage providing evidence of payment attempted but not claimed?

I work for a financial institution, and I'm pretty well versed in how point of sale transactions are processed. In this instance, I paid using the debit card, that payment was authorised by my bank and moved to 'pending' - removing those funds from being available to me. The receipient (Padstow Council) then needs to claim the funds, using the auth code provided on the transaction.

This hasn't taken place, so the funds were moved from pending, back into the available balance on my account. Indeed, the notification from the bank about this clearly states that "Padstow Harbour Commis didn't take your debit card payment" - the onus being on the recipient to claim the funds once authorised?

Thanks again for your help
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: b789 on November 01, 2025, 07:20:43 pm
DO NOT, under any circumstances, identify the driver. They only know that you are the registered keeper. They have no idea who the driver is unless you blab it to them inadvertently or otherwise. ONLY the driver can be liable as the location is not relevant land under PoFA 2012 and therefore you cannot be liable as the Keeper. Also, their Notice to Keeper (NtK) doesn't seek to even try and rely on PoFA to hold you liable as the Keeper.

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Alliance Parking has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Alliance have no hope should you be so stupid as to try and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Come back when they reject that.
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 01, 2025, 12:31:31 pm
Thanks for the comments Dave - I'm not particularly tech savvy, so think i've done the upload thing right - the picture of the front of the letter is here:

https://ibb.co/1Vxrg0V


The back is here

https://ibb.co/8nYnvrkn

If these don't work, please let me know.

I haven't as yet replied - after reading through the FAQ's etc on here - I can't particularly afford any of it, and somewhat nervous about just leaving it and not responding at all, so would appreciate some specific guidance. TIA
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: jfollows on November 01, 2025, 11:02:29 am
https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/ should answer some questions
Title: Re: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: Dave65 on November 01, 2025, 10:51:34 am
Do not attempt to call these people.
Everything in writing.
Do not divulge the ID of the driver.

This being a harbour, then most likely byelaws will be in place.

Can you post up a copy of the PPN with personal detail's redacted but leave dates?
Title: Padstow Parking Charge - Paid at meter, No receipt given, screen shot of debit, money not taken
Post by: RT on November 01, 2025, 10:08:47 am
Hi, hoping for some help / advice - before I contact (should I even?) Alliance Parking.

We parked in padstow car park for a little under an hour on 22/10. Before exiting, I paid at the machine on my debit card.
£1.50 debited my account.
I requested a receipt from the machine - it gave me nothing, and returned to the opening screen for the next customer.

The chap at the harbour refused to provide any written notice of receipt, and explained he was nothing to do with the parking company, he viewed my banking app to see the debiting amount, but insisted it was nothing to do with him, despite him placing parking boards out from the little shack at the entrance.

I have a screen shot of the debiting amount from my phone.

I had a notification from my banking app on on 29/10 - stating that Padstow Harbour didn't take the debit card payment. I have a screen shot of this.

I was going to attempt to contact Padstow council on Friday, but work prevented me from doing so, to try and pay them their outstanding £1.50 that they didn't take, for whatever reason.

I have today received a letter from Alliance Parking stating that the driver of the vehicle is liable for a parking charge. With time of entry at 10:33 and exit of 11:32 on 22/10. My screen shot shows 11:27 on 22/10 at point of payment. £100 is to be paid by 27/11, or £170 thereafter. If prompt payment is made the sum of £60 is payable before 17/11 in full and final settlement.

Should I contact Alliance and offer the proof that payment was 'made' but not taken?

What's my best course of action - I really don't want to be handing over any money to them, when to my mind, I paid at the time, and the transaction wasn't taken - where I have no interaction in that process.

any advice / steer would be greatly appreciated.