Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Boxxer on November 04, 2023, 04:58:17 pm

Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on January 02, 2024, 03:18:20 pm
Thinking I will give up and pay for the discount charge. :-[  Thank you so much for everyone's kind help.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on December 29, 2023, 01:21:44 pm
sorry for being dump. Can you please elaborate and is there any way I can try to fix this? thanks in advance 🙏
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Hippocrates on December 29, 2023, 12:59:59 pm
As per my advice above.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on December 29, 2023, 09:31:41 am
Very strange and not sure why, but I can try to list out the options here regarding to my questions. Many thanks!

01. Which contravention do you want to appeal?
- Parking contravention
- Moving traffic (including box junction) contravention
- Bus lane contravention
- London lorry control contravention (driver)
- London lorry control contravention (operator)
- Household/commercial/industrial waste
- Direct Vision Standard - Operator
- Clamping of your vehicle
- Direct Vision Standard - Driver
- Removal or towing away of your vehicle
- Littering from vehicle

02 What are your grounds for appeal? These are the only reasons that you can appeal. Choose all that apply.
- The civil enforcement officer was not prevented by some person from fixing the Penalty
- Charge Notice to the vehicle or handing it to the person in charge of the vehicle.
- The contravention did not occur
- The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case
- The penalty charge has already been paid
- The traffic order allegedly contravened is invalid
- The vehicle was parked by someone in control of it without the owner's consent
- There has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the Enforcement Authority
- You are a hire firm and have supplied a valid hire agreement
- You were not the owner of the vehicle at the relevant time
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Hippocrates on December 28, 2023, 09:55:33 am
I can't seem to access the NOR or the last post:  parking contravention and contravention did not occur.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on December 27, 2023, 06:07:46 pm
Hope you all had a Merry Christmas.


I was about to appeal on the London Tribunals web site and there were a few things I wasn't quite sure which to choose.

I can't find it anywhere on the NOR. Am I right that to think this is a parking contravention
(https://i.ibb.co/CbMF2p5/Screenshot-2023-12-27-at-17-48-44.png) (https://ibb.co/CbMF2p5)

And should I choose "The traffic order allegedly contravened is invalid" as the grounds for appeal?
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7V2YZF/Screenshot-2023-12-27-at-17-48-28.png) (https://ibb.co/Y7V2YZF)

Really really appreciate for all the helps and advices on here. Thank you so much.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Pastmybest on December 21, 2023, 10:54:00 am
the start of the video was irrelevant. It was their bad editing I think

no it's not irrelevant, if they have edited the video, why? because they must have edited images from two cameras together and that is not allowed
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on December 21, 2023, 10:26:53 am
the start of the video was irrelevant. It was their bad editing I think
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Pastmybest on December 21, 2023, 10:15:52 am
I think you would have a very good chance at appeal but something needs clearing up, The video starts with a bus pulling out at green lanes bridge this is more than 1.5km from where you stopped and cannot have been the same camera. so two questions

Is it the same bus

or is the video edited to look like the bus was far behind you and it is not likely to have seen your accident.

It is strange that it took so long for a bus that was flashing headlights at you took so long to pull up alongside
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Hippocrates on December 20, 2023, 09:45:38 pm
Certain types of emergencies my derriere!  I would take it to the Tribunal.  Let them explain what they mean by this expression and see if the adjudicator agrees.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on December 20, 2023, 08:44:43 pm
Notice of rejection received today. They have rejected the representation as expected.

What do you guys think? Many thanks in advance.

(https://i.ibb.co/MNh2kYL/Notice-of-rejection-Dec23-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MNh2kYL) (https://i.ibb.co/hZL3R0C/Notice-of-rejection-Dec23-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hZL3R0C) (https://i.ibb.co/kGhjcJh/Notice-of-rejection-Dec23-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kGhjcJh) (https://i.ibb.co/vsBcqLG/Notice-of-rejection-Dec23-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vsBcqLG) (https://i.ibb.co/wzxQjxB/Notice-of-rejection-Dec23-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wzxQjxB) (https://i.ibb.co/sHJWGGm/Notice-of-rejection-Dec23-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sHJWGGm)
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 19, 2023, 10:13:31 pm
Representation uploaded on council website as well as taken a screenshot of the confirmation screen. Many thanks everyone. 🤞🏻
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: cp8759 on November 19, 2023, 02:32:52 pm
Will send through this appeal letter this weekend if no one else has anything to add.
Do not send a letter in the post, representations should always be made online unless there's some really good reason not to.

Keep a screenshot of the confirmation screen. If the website has a character limit that is too low, put the representation in a PDF and upload it as an attachment and in the representation box just write "see attached representations".
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 17, 2023, 11:48:46 am
Thank you so much Pastmybest!🙏 Greatly appreciated for your help and it makes lot of sense.

Will send through this appeal letter this weekend if no one else has anything to add.

Can’t thank you everyone here enough for all your help. ❤️ Will let you guys know one I have any update.

Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Pastmybest on November 16, 2023, 10:49:29 am
Is this correct? Sorry for my english and thank you so much for all your input.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am appealing against the penalty charge, and I will explain the events in the order they occurred before this alleged contravention so you can understand how and why it happened.

I was driving from Green Lanes toward High Road when, at the junction outside Turnpike Lane station, a police car with sirens on approached from the opposite direction. A vehicle behind me crashed into the right rear of my car before turning right into Westbury Avenue. A bus behind me repeatedly flashed its front lights, which I believed was the bus driver trying to get my attention.

To eliminate any risk in continuing to drive following:

TSRGD schedule 7, part 6, para 4(2)(b)
"a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"

I decided to stop where it made sense to assume the bus would stop and to let ongoing traffic pass before checking with the driver. After inspecting the rear of my vehicle, I waited for the bus. When it pulled alongside, the driver explained that he had witnessed the collision and had captured everything on the bus's CCTV. He advised me to contact TFL for a copy of the footage. After our conversation, I continued driving."

I hope that, after explaining the sequence of events that occurred, you can understand the intention behind this alleged contravention.

I claim the exemption afforded my the above quoted regulation and as such the PCN should now be cancelled

Your faithfully




I am appealing against the penalty charge, and I will explain the events in the order they occurred before this alleged contravention so you can understand how and why it happened.

I was driving from Green Lanes toward High Road when, at the junction outside Turnpike Lane station, a police car with sirens on approached from the opposite direction. A vehicle behind me crashed into the right rear of my car before turning right into Westbury Avenue. A bus behind me repeatedly flashed its front lights, which I believed was the bus driver trying to get my attention.

To eliminate any risk in continuing to drive following:



I decided to stop where safe expexting the bus would stop.I let ongoing traffic pass before checking with the driver. When the bus pulled alongside, the driver explained that he had witnessed the collision and had captured everything on the bus's CCTV. He advised me to contact TFL for a copy of the footage. After our conversation, I continued driving."

I hope that, after explaining the sequence of events that occurred, you can understand the intention behind this alleged contravention.



In line with

TSRGD schedule 7, part 6, para 4(2)(b)
"a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"


I claim the exemption afforded my the above quoted regulation and as such the PCN should now be cancelled

Your faithfully[/i]
[/quote]


see my amendment. Use that it makes more sense and eliminates opportunity for TfL to say" you can't do that"
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 15, 2023, 10:55:26 pm
Is this correct? Sorry for my english and thank you so much for all your input.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am appealing against the penalty charge, and I will explain the events in the order they occurred before this alleged contravention so you can understand how and why it happened.

I was driving from Green Lanes toward High Road when, at the junction outside Turnpike Lane station, a police car with sirens on approached from the opposite direction. A vehicle behind me crashed into the right rear of my car before turning right into Westbury Avenue. A bus behind me repeatedly flashed its front lights, which I believed was the bus driver trying to get my attention.

To eliminate any risk in continuing to drive following:

TSRGD schedule 7, part 6, para 4(2)(b)
"a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"

I decided to stop where it made sense to assume the bus would stop and to let ongoing traffic pass before checking with the driver. After inspecting the rear of my vehicle, I waited for the bus. When it pulled alongside, the driver explained that he had witnessed the collision and had captured everything on the bus's CCTV. He advised me to contact TFL for a copy of the footage. After our conversation, I continued driving."

I hope that, after explaining the sequence of events that occurred, you can understand the intention behind this alleged contravention.

I claim the exemption afforded my the above quoted regulation and as such the PCN should now be cancelled

Your faithfully
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Pastmybest on November 12, 2023, 11:07:33 am
Hi all,

Here is my updated draft. Let me know your thought.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to appeal my penalty charge, and I will explain the events in the order they occurred before this alleged contravention so you can understand how and why it happened.

I was driving from Green Lanes toward High Road when, at the junction outside Turnpike Lane station, a police car with sirens on approached from the opposite direction. A vehicle behind me crashed into the right rear of my car before turning right into Westbury Avenue. I stopped by the edge of the yellow junction box to quickly visually check the damage, but the car had already driven off.

Although I was still shocked, I tried to recall what had happened and remember the vehicle's number plate as I continued the journey on High Road. Subsequently a bus behind me repeatedly flashed its front lights, which I believed was the bus driver trying to get my attention.

To eliminate any risk in continuing to drive following:




 This led me to II decided to pulled into the bus stop, where it made sense to assume the bus would stop and to let ongoing traffic pass before checking with the driver. After inspecting the rear of my vehicle, I waited for the bus. When it pulled alongside, the driver explained that he had witnessed the collision and had captured everything on the bus's CCTV. He advised me to contact TFL for a copy of the footage. After our conversation, I continued driving."

I hope that, after explaining the sequence of events that occurred, you can understand the intention behind this alleged contravention.



TSRGD schedule 7, part 6, para 4(2)(b)
"a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"


I claim the exemption afforded my the above quoted regulation and as such the PCN should now be cancelled


Remove what i highlight red and replace what is in blue moving the cited regulation because no one will accept it was because you stopped as you did because of the reg
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: roythebus on November 11, 2023, 09:50:35 pm
"I would like to appeal my penalty charge", I suggest you need to be a bit firmer but a polite "I am appealing  against the penalty charge".
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 11, 2023, 04:41:22 pm
Hi all,

Here is my updated draft. Let me know your thought.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to appeal my penalty charge, and I will explain the events in the order they occurred before this alleged contravention so you can understand how and why it happened.

I was driving from Green Lanes toward High Road when, at the junction outside Turnpike Lane station, a police car with sirens on approached from the opposite direction. A vehicle behind me crashed into the right rear of my car before turning right into Westbury Avenue. I stopped by the edge of the yellow junction box to quickly visually check the damage, but the car had already driven off.

Although I was still shocked, I tried to recall what had happened and remember the vehicle's number plate as I continued the journey on High Road. Subsequently a bus behind me repeatedly flashed its front lights, which I believed was the bus driver trying to get my attention.

To eliminate any risk in continuing to drive following:

TSRGD schedule 7, part 6, para 4(2)(b)
"a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"


 This led me to decided to pulled into the bus stop, where it made sense to assume the bus would stop and to let ongoing traffic pass before checking with the driver. After inspecting the rear of my vehicle, I waited for the bus. When it pulled alongside, the driver explained that he had witnessed the collision and had captured everything on the bus's CCTV. He advised me to contact TFL for a copy of the footage. After our conversation, I continued driving."

I hope that, after explaining the sequence of events that occurred, you can understand the intention behind this alleged contravention.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Hippocrates on November 07, 2023, 11:54:00 pm
I would cite DD's reference to the law and take out "offence".  It is not an offence. It is an alleged contravention. Sorry, too late for me to add further detail.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 06, 2023, 07:38:18 pm
Have you explored the possibility of a statement from the 'bus driver?

No I haven't. Could you please elaborate a bit more?

I've had a look at the road layout and tried to visualise what happened, The only issue that will need explaining is why once you clear the junction did you not stop before the bus stop and when did you notice the bus driver flashing you

Let me have these two bits of info and i will draft you an appeal

I stopped right there at the edge of the yellow box when the car crash into mine but only for a very quick look. And since the car had drove off and I was blocking all the traffic I got back onto the car. Then while I was trying to recall what had happened and remember the vehicle's number plate,  I continued to drive for about 30 seconds and that was when I first notice the bus driver flashing, and then he continued flashing the light to the point that I decided I will to need to stop at a safe place.

 
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Pastmybest on November 06, 2023, 05:28:27 pm
I've had a look at the road layout and tried to visualise what happened, The only issue that will need explaining is why once you clear the junction did you not stop before the bus stop and when did you notice the bus driver flashing you

Let me have these two bits of info and i will draft you an appeal
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Incandescent on November 06, 2023, 05:10:12 pm
Just remember:  the more salient representations you make, the more they have to consider.  This is a statutory duty.  Personally, I would include as much as relevant.  It is generally agreed on both forums (fora?) that many council officers are not that fully-conversant with the law(s)!
I sometimes think it is "all", not "many" !

How does one apply to be a Hero Member? 8)
I don't know, I never applied for it !
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: John U.K. on November 06, 2023, 02:23:01 pm
Have you explored the possibility of a statement from the 'bus driver?
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 06, 2023, 02:17:25 pm
Got another reply from Arriva. Unfortunately the CCTV footage is no longer available

Quote
I am in receipt of the below regarding right of access to your personal data under Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), we can confirm that we do not hold the information you have requested. Our system stores data for a period of 240hrs only and we would not now be able to retrieve footage for your incident on 17th October 2023.

If you are dissatisfied with any aspect of this response, you can lodge a complaint with your national supervisory Data Protection Authority. In the UK the Data Protection Authority is the Information Commissioner’s Office, contactable via the following details:
WEB: https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/
E-Mail: casework@ico.org.uk


Stress the impact, that you were trying to get your wits, concerned with damage and to top it all, a bus driver was flashing you so you felt forced to pull over as soon as possible, which happened to be the bus stop

ok I will also add these in

Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: DancingDad on November 06, 2023, 01:19:16 pm
Stress the impact, that you were trying to get your wits, concerned with damage and to top it all, a bus driver was flashing you so you felt forced to pull over as soon as possible, which happened to be the bus stop
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 06, 2023, 12:52:41 pm
Received a reply from Arriva this morning saying they will forward the request to their UK Bus Division

Quote
As this request involved one of our buses I have forward your request on to the team within our UK Bus Division for their review and processing, at Arriva Group we do not generally process customer data and as such do not have access to the systems required, therefore your request will be handled by colleagues within our UK Bus division. They will soon reach out to acknowledge your request.

And here is my first draft

Dear Sir/Madam,

I would like to appeal my penalty charge, and I will explain the events in the order they occurred before this offence so you can understand how and why it happened.

I was driving from Green Lanes toward High Road when, at the junction outside Turnpike Lane station, a police car with sirens on approached from the opposite direction. A vehicle behind me crashed into the right rear of my car and then turned right into Westbury Avenue before driving off.

As the traffic was very busy, I was trying to recall what had happened and remember the vehicle's number plate. Subsequently a bus behind me repeatedly flashed its front lights, which I believed was the bus driver trying to get my attention.

I pulled into the bus stop, where it made sense to assume the bus would stop and to let ongoing traffic pass before checking with the driver. After inspecting the rear of my vehicle, I waited for the bus. When it pulled alongside, the driver explained that he had witnessed the collision and had captured everything on the bus's CCTV. He advised me to contact TFL for a copy of the footage. After our conversation, I continued driving."

I hope that, after explaining the sequence of events that occurred, you can understand the intention behind this offence.


What do you guys think?
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Hippocrates on November 06, 2023, 12:38:09 pm
Just remember:  the more salient representations you make, the more they have to consider.  This is a statutory duty.  Personally, I would include as much as relevant.  It is generally agreed on both forums (fora?) that many council officers are not that fully-conversant with the law(s)!
I sometimes think it is "all", not "many" !

How does one apply to be a Hero Member? 8)
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: DancingDad on November 06, 2023, 12:02:59 pm
Thank you everyone for the input. All very valid, especially HCA for pointing out the very important reason why I pulled into the bus stop which was because of the constant flashing of the front light by the bus driver behind.

I will post up a draft soon that follow HCA's suggestion while waiting for the CCTV footage.

Just be aware.
Pulling into the bus stop for reasons beyond your control relate to the collision.
There is a risk in continuing driving without checking and TBH, for some people that panic, there is a risk in continuing to drive.
A bus driver flashing his lights builds the story but alone is a stretch to mean you had to stop in the bus stop.
The first leads directly to a statutory exemption, the second may not.

Flashing can mean anything from you've peed the driver off to something may be wrong with the car and you really ought to pull over to check
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Incandescent on November 06, 2023, 11:59:09 am
Just remember:  the more salient representations you make, the more they have to consider.  This is a statutory duty.  Personally, I would include as much as relevant.  It is generally agreed on both forums (fora?) that many council officers are not that fully-conversant with the law(s)!
I sometimes think it is "all", not "many" !
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Hippocrates on November 06, 2023, 11:26:43 am
Just remember:  the more salient representations you make, the more they have to consider.  This is a statutory duty.  Personally, I would include as much as relevant.  It is generally agreed on both forums (fora?) that many council officers are not that fully-conversant with the law(s)!
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 05, 2023, 05:19:36 pm
Thank you everyone for the input. All very valid, especially HCA for pointing out the very important reason why I pulled into the bus stop which was because of the constant flashing of the front light by the bus driver behind.

I will post up a draft soon that follow HCA's suggestion while waiting for the CCTV footage.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: H C Andersen on November 05, 2023, 02:21:22 pm

The point about the collision is that according to the OP the bus driver is probably more au fait with these details than them. I presented my input in the order that it would have become known to the OP i.e. I don't want them to mix what they knew prior to stopping with what they were informed after they stopped and IMO these must be kept separate. 

They stopped not just because they'd been a collision but because the bus driver's indications gave them a legitimate reason to believe that they had important - and otherwise unknown to the OP - information regarding it.

And where would you stop other than in a bus stop in order to act upon the warning from the bus driver?

The fine detail of the collision is secondary e.g. did they turn left or right, blue car, black car or whatever etc. and although sufficient needs to be included should not swamp the argument regarding the contravention.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: DancingDad on November 05, 2023, 02:04:48 pm
I think the details of the collision are important. Looking at the council video without context, it just looks like an unjustified stop in a bus stop, and the bus that pulls up alongside could be stopping to remonstrate about the car stopping in a bus stop.

Fully agree as it is the collision that is the root cause of it all.
To be fair, HCA's synopsis includes it and is more or less what I would be using as bare bones for a challenge.
Flesh will be needed such as the exemption and the info the bus driver gave re CCTV

OP, keep an eye on timing, the actual footage would be good but do not miss deadlines waiting for it.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: cp8759 on November 05, 2023, 12:47:38 pm
IMO, there's no point drilling into the detail of the collision i.e. where, how etc, the issue is what you reasonably inferred from the driver's signals and why you stopped in the bus stop area.
I think the details of the collision are important. Looking at the council video without context, it just looks like an unjustified stop in a bus stop, and the bus that pulls up alongside could be stopping to remonstrate about the car stopping in a bus stop.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: H C Andersen on November 05, 2023, 12:29:10 pm

'without thinking drove into a bus stop'?

IMO, driving into it knowingly strengthens whatever case you may have(i.e. other than your account we have no idea what transpired with the driver).

I'm therefore starting with the premis that you knowingly stopped at a bus stop.

As I understand it, facts in the order they occurred and with the knowledge you had at the time i.e. not acquired later are:

Your vehicle was hit by a car in the rear;
A bus which was in the vicinity subsequently flashed you repeatedly which you interpreted as meaning that they were trying to bring something to your attention;
You therefore pulled into the bus stop, where it was reasonable to assume the bus would be stopping in order to check with the driver;
You checked the rear of your vehicle and waited for the bus which the pulled alongside at which point **** the driver told you *****;
And then you drove off.

IMO, there's no point drilling into the detail of the collision i.e. where, how etc, the issue is what you reasonably inferred from the driver's signals and why you stopped in the bus stop area.
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: DancingDad on November 05, 2023, 12:19:20 pm
TSRGD Shedule 7, part 6, para 4(2)(b) should apply
"a vehicle which is prevented from proceeding by circumstances beyond the driver’s control or which has to be stopped in order to avoid injury or damage to persons or property;"

ie, another vehicle crashed into you, you were worried about the amount of damage or possible risk if you continued driving so pulled into a clear area.... don't use words like scratch which minimise even though it may have turned out to only be a scratch, as anyone who has been in a minor shunt will know, the sound effects can be horrendous
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 05, 2023, 11:53:15 am
Thank you so much. Email sent and have also bcc to you.

It was at this junction, I was on the middle lane on Green lanes going north to High road, the other car was on the right lane turning right to Westbury Avenue. As the traffic light changed, a police car at the opposite junction (High road) suddenly turned on the siran and heading south to Green lanes. As I was about the exit the yellow box junction, this car while tried to avoid the police car had hit the right side of the back of my car before turned into Westbury Avenue and left.

(https://i.ibb.co/6Pb0LXw/Screenshot-2023-11-05-at-11-28-25.png) (https://ibb.co/6Pb0LXw)

The 144 bus must have been behind me and have seen what had happened. 
Title: Re: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: cp8759 on November 04, 2023, 09:54:39 pm
Well, the first thing you need to do is make a subject access request for the bus video footage.

The number plate of the bus that stopped next to you is LJ61 CAA and https://bustimes.org/vehicles/711 says that bus is on route 144, according to https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/who-runs-your-bus route 144 is operated by Arriva London North Ltd and according to https://ico.org.uk/ESDWebPages/Entry/Z5592665 the DPO is sheltst@arriva.co.uk

Therefore you should email sheltst@arriva.co.uk right away (hurry up as the footage is kept for a limited time only):

Dear Arriva London North Ltd,

On 17 October 2023 I was involved in a road traffic collision just before 8:28 am, I pulled over to check for damage to my car and a TFL bus pulled over next to me, the number plate of that bus is LJ61 CAA and my number plate is J44 MNY.

The bus driver told me that he had witnessed the accident, he had caught everything on the bus CCTV and I should contact TFL for a copy of the footage. This bus appears to run route 144, and TFL's website tells me that route 144 is operated by Arriva London North Ltd and that I should contact you directly for a copy of the footage.

Would you therefore please provide a copy of the footage showing this collision, I attach a copy of my driving licence and V5C as proof of identity.

Yours faithfully,

While we wait for the footage, please tell us everything you can about the collision.

This is the council video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SLWeeGOhUY
Title: PCN - Haringey Council - 47(J): Stopped on a restricted bus stop or stand
Post by: Boxxer on November 04, 2023, 04:58:17 pm
Hi everyone,

I received a PCN for stopped on a restricted bus stop which obviously I didn't realised at the time. It was 8.28am and the traffic was busy, I was doing a school run with my daughter and my wife in the car. What happened was a few junctions back, a car behind me on the right lane drove and scratched the back of my car before turning right and drove off. I was feeling desperate and while trying to rethink what had happened and tried to remember its number plate. While I didn't want to stop in the middle of the road to check for the damage of my car, the bus driver behind me keep flashing its light and so without thinking I drove into the bus stop and got off the car to quickly check the car for about 10 seconds. Jumped back on the car and just before I was about to drive away, then the bus driver stopped next to me explaining he basically saw and have captured everything with the bus camera, telling me to get his bus number & number plate and contact TFL for evidence.

(https://i.ibb.co/XWknCn0/IMG-4917.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XWknCn0)(https://i.ibb.co/YWbshfB/IMG-4919.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YWbshfB)(https://i.ibb.co/Hxr1JJX/IMG-4920.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hxr1JJX)(https://i.ibb.co/BThHK1p/IMG-4921.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BThHK1p)

Here is a photo from the video that the bus driver stopped and having a conversation with next to me
(https://i.ibb.co/NF7rw7H/Bus-Stopped.png) (https://ibb.co/NF7rw7H)

Do I have any chances to fight for this? Many thanks in advance for all your time & professional knowledge