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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 01:39:14 pm

Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: John U.K. on March 04, 2026, 09:03:05 am
You should win this.
On the insertion of the other case, adjudicators are often forgiving of administrative mistakes. If you post their case summary we can judge further.


@Stamfordman  Their case summary is in Reply#44 above. Problem is, the council are making case for the appeal of a Mr.Miah to be refused!
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on March 03, 2026, 08:37:25 pm
You should win this.

On the insertion of the other case, adjudicators are often forgiving of administrative mistakes. If you post their case summary we can judge further.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 03, 2026, 05:51:45 pm
I now have a hearing date for the 24/03/2026
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: John U.K. on March 03, 2026, 05:49:31 pm
I was only asking to clarify if it should be photo or photos in the last para of your summary.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 03, 2026, 05:19:23 pm
There's only the one photo of the junction I drove through (canterbury/stafford st) i.e. the other is a different location - the two photos posted above in total, no other images.

To get an image of two compliant signs at the canturbury/stafford st junction they would have to have gone back even further in time and then there a huge billboard behind the sign on the left making it more obviously different to mine.

I suspect they're hoping the adjudicator would see two compliant signs and a close up and just assume the same location.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: John U.K. on March 03, 2026, 04:09:14 pm
That's the sort of thing I had in mind, giving the Adjudicator an easily readable one page summary of yr argument.

Quote
The Council makes not attempt to rebut my appeal

Should be "no attempt".

Quote
The council's photo amounts to an attempt to mislead the TPT into thinking there is compliant signage when there is not. Their evidence photo must therefore be disregarded as it does not reflect the current state of the signage.

I'm not happy about amounts to . An adjudicator might take a dislike to a direct accusation of the EA. Rather present the facts and allow the adjudicator to draw his/her own conclusions. How about

The council's photos amounts to could be interpreted as an attempt to mislead the TPT into thinking there is compliant signage when there is not. I believe thatTtheir evidence photo must therefore be disregarded as it does not reflect the current state of the signage.

Is ir one misleading photo or more than one?

Anyway, see what others here think and submit it as an  attached PDF, with good formatting.
 
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 03, 2026, 01:02:55 pm
How does this sound.

SUMMARY RESPONSE TO MEDWAY'S EVIDENCE PACK

My Original Representations against this PCN


1) My car was parked on a single yellow line with no time plate in a controlled zone and the signs I passed at the entrance to the controlled zone were rotated to the point that for all practical purposes they were absent (i.e. at right angles to the direction of travel). I did not pass any other controlled zone signs prior to parking

2) The council have therefore failed to sign the restriction correctly or adequately, the restriction was therefore of no effect and therefore a contravention could not have been committed under these circumstances.

My response to the Council's Evidence

1) The Council's summary responds to the case of a Mr.Miah, completely different to my own PCN and case.
The Council makes not attempt to rebut my appeal/

2)The councils evidence ‘photo’ a3d26c93-f4af-4ceb-8657-149fa8f35100_CPZ Canterbury StScreenshot 2026-02-26 091014.png:
a)   shows controlled zone signs that I did NOT pass at any point prior to parking.
b)    from the notice to owner appeal rejection it can be inferred that this image relates to the erroneous assumption by Medway, that due to my parked direction I did not enter the controlled zone where I did. However,
1) I have consistently stated that I turned around prior to parking
2) As this was at night and not a marked bay, Highway Code rule 248 demands that I park the car in the direction of travel I did.
c)   Medways attempt to draw an adverse inference from the direction in which I parked is therefore baseless and should be disregarded.

3) The councils evidence photo c04b5ae6-f478-454e-828c-3b9ee3ec7dc7_Canterbury St CPZ sign Screenshot 2026-02-26 085701.png
This image shows the sign I passed heading north on Canterbury St at the junction with Stafford St. However, the ‘photo’ is a screen grab from google street view taken in December 2020.
The most recent google street view images from October 24 (see my evidence 17 Oct24vsDec20streetview images copy.jpg) show non compliant signage consistent with my evidence photos (Evidence 2, 13 to 16) .Evidence 17 also gives the December 2020 streetview image, which from, vehicles, fencing and billboards shows indisputably  that it is the source of the councils photo.

The councils photo amounts to an attempt to mislead the TPT into thinking there is compliant signage when there is not. Their evidence photo must therefore be disregarded as it does not reflect the current state of the signage.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 02, 2026, 04:31:59 pm
I can currently add evidence, but I've no idea of cut off date.

What the portal does allow is to give comments on each piece of evidence, so i could add some similar wording there instead or as well as.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: John U.K. on March 02, 2026, 04:11:02 pm
Are you allowed to submit supplementary evidence to TPT? If so, when does it have to be in by?
Does the Council's other evidence relaye to your case or Mr.Miah's?

In your shoes, as the Council has not provided a rebuttal of your case, I'd be inclined to produce my own summary document for the Adjudicator along the lines of

SUMMARY RESPONSE TO MEDWAY'S EVIDENCE PACK

My Original Representations against this PCN

                            rehearse these

My response to the Council's Evidence

                   
1) the Council's summary responds to the case of a Mr.Miah, completely different to my own PCN and case.
The Council makes not attempt to rebut my appeal/

              2)  Your concerns about the Council's pictorial evidence.

and post the draft here before submitting.

Just my twopennorth, but see what the experts here say.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 02, 2026, 01:57:40 pm
Council evidence images below

Map

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/GYZgcbK_xl.png)

The cpz signs I didn't drive through, not exactly sure of their location (probably north end of canterbury st looking south)

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/awj1YAl_xl.png)

The cpz sign I did drive through junction canterbury and stafford street. Image Medway have screen grabbed from google streetview Dec 2020. See https://maps.app.goo.gl/xE1HdqZd4Njzvjkg8 notice fencing and red taxi. Most/more recent streetview streams show non compliant signage

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/9lLv1Oh_xl.png)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 02, 2026, 01:30:21 pm
The procedure was Medway send a code with the NoR.
I then registered the appeal stating case for appeal, which  is the same as the text above (it was added automatically to the evidence pack).
I believe there was also a tick box for grounds i.e. contravention did not occur.
At that time I uploaded one photo as evidence - the same as I had used at earlier appeal stages.
Within 14 day Medway had to reply, which they, did with their evidence. From that date (last thursday) I had seven days to select the hearing type or it defaults to not in person.
I have now added some additional photos of signage to rebut medways deception.

There's no covering letter with the evidence pack. It basically the text I posted above plus an evidence list, as follows

Evidence 1
Evidence Type: Other (Add full description)
Published Date: February 10, 2026 15:08
Published By: Appellant
Attachment: Appoaching start of cpz_3.jpg
Description: Photo showing (lack of) entry signs passed on entry
to CPZ. Location of signs arrowed for clarity.

Evidence 2
Evidence Type: Case Status Report/System Audit/Progression
History
Published Date: February 26, 2026 10:57
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: MW00080-2602 INGRAM.pdf
Description: Copy of ticket history.

Evidence 3
Evidence Type: Photographs
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:02
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: MW00080-2602 INGRAM Photos.pdf
Description: Copy of photographs taken at time of
contravention.

Evidence 4
Evidence Type: Informal Challenge Rejection
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:03
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: MW00080-2602 INGRAM Informal rejection.pdf
Description: Copy of informal challenge rejection.

Evidence 5
Evidence Type: Notice of Rejection of Representation
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:05
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: MW00080-2602 INGRAM formal rejection.pdf
Description: Copy of notice of rejection of formal
representations.

Evidence 6
Evidence Type: Informal Challenge
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:08
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: 20251106-145732-Workflow attachment added-
30051.eml01291333.eml
Description: Copy of informal representations.

Evidence 7
Evidence Type: Formal Representation
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:10
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: 20260108-204633-Workflow attachment added-
30051.eml01296150.eml
Description: Copy of formal representations

Evidence 8
Evidence Type: Notice to Owner
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:16
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: INGRAM-26-02-2026-11-14-06.pdf
Description: Copy of Notice To Owner.

Evidence 9
Evidence Type: Map showing location
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:19
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: Canterbury St Map Screenshot 2026-02-26
105910.png
Description: Copy of map showing location.

Evidence 10
Evidence Type: Photographs
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:20
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: CPZ Canterbury StScreenshot 2026-02-26
091014.png
Description: Copy of photograph showing CPZ signage on entry
to location.

Evidence 11
Evidence Type: Photographs
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:21
Published By: Authority Manager
Attachment: Canterbury St CPZ sign Screenshot 2026-02-26
085701.png
Description: Copy of signage showing CPZ signage.

Evidence 12
Evidence Type: MW031 - The Medway Council (Gillingham and
Brompton) (Parking Places and Waiting, Loading and Stopping
Restrictions) Consolidation Order 2016
Published Date: February 26, 2026 11:23
Published By: Authority Manager
Description: Copy of TRO specifically page 125, item 2/44
schedule 2.

Evidence 13
Evidence Type: Other (Add full description)
Published Date: February 28, 2026 17:10
Published By: Appellant
Attachment: view from stafford st accross canterbury st 1.jpg
Description: Photo showing view of cpz signage from stafford st
looking towards canterbury st

Evidence 14
Evidence Type: Other (Add full description)
Published Date: February 28, 2026 17:13
Published By: Appellant
Attachment: view from stafford st accross canterbury st 2.jpg
Description: view of cpz signage from stafford st looking across
canterbury st

Evidence 15
Evidence Type: Other (Add full description)
Published Date: February 28, 2026 17:20
Published By: Appellant
Attachment: viewfrom cant st of cpz signs corner with staff
st.jpg
Description: photo showing view from canterbury st of signs at
junction with stafford st

Evidence 16
Evidence Type: Other (Add full description)
Published Date: February 28, 2026 17:25
Published By: Appellant
Attachment: view from canterbury st down stafford st 1.jpg
Description: wider view of entrance to stafford st from canterbury
st added just to give context to zoomed in image of cpz signs on
right hand side
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: John U.K. on March 02, 2026, 12:44:13 pm
Hi John,

1) I do not yet have a hearing date

 2) I have not yet selected hearing type but need to do so before thursday, I guess I need to select in person.


I'm not familiar (compared with London Tribunals) with the TPT procedure for registration. Can you advise on the steps you took to register the appeal, and the response you've received from TPT? Where does the need to do things before Thursday come from?  You do need to ensure it's a personal (video or telephone) hearing.

3) I only have the text for the other persons case in the evidence pack, see below (the name I've deleted is nothing like mine)
 . . .


Was there a covering letter with the Evidence Pack? Please post here together with any list of  contents.
PLease also post a copy of the appeal you submitted to the Tribunal wnen registering the appeal.



Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 02, 2026, 12:22:36 pm
Hi John,

1) I do not yet have a hearing date

2) I have not yet selected hearing type but need to do so before thursday, I guess I need to select in person.

3) I only have the text for the other persons case in the evidence pack, see below (the name I've deleted is nothing like mine)

Appellant Explanation and Authority Summary
Appellant Explanation

I rely on my representation to Medway Council.I would like to add
that Medway council are mistaken in their belief that I hadn't turned
around in the CPZ having only passed the entry under dispute
(photo attached). (I am almost certain that I mentioned my change
in direction of travel in my informal reps)For completeness the
wording of my formal appeal to Medway council is below:"I am
appealing on the grounds that the contravention did not occur. The
single yellow line on which I was parked had no time plate and in
addition the signage at the entry to the CPZ is for all practical
purposes absent.Specifically:The CPZ sign on the left hand side of
Canterbury street cannot be seen at all driving into the zone – it
has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole
is visible.The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it
can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an
acute angle that it is impossible to read it or identify it as a CPZ
sign, if you see it at all, particularly when driving at night as I was.I
have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).As the council has
failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the
restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look
forward to early confirmation."

Authority Summary

This statement is submitted in response to Mr xxxxxxxxx appeals
against the Penalty Charge Notices issued for parking adjacent to
double yellow lines.Mr Miah's argument that the vehicle was
parked on a single yellow line when parking is allowed all day on a
Sunday, but the rear wheel was only slightly on the Double Yellow
line. Is not supported by evidence provided by Medway Council,
which clearly shows that the vehicle has its rear axle parked
adjacent to the Double Yellow lines, which is enforceable at any
time.In summary, the contravention is clearly observed in the
photographic evidence Item 6, specifically photograph 5,
photographs taken at time of the contravention. The vehicles rear
axle has clearly parked adjacent to the yellow lines which is in
contravention of the Highway code.Whilst Medway Council
appreciate that parking in the area may be demanding the
enforcement officer cannot discriminate when issuing a ticket. If a
vehicle is seen to be parked adjacent to yellow lines and is not
exempt, it will receive a ticket. Yellow lines, whether double or
single, are installed for safety or access reasons and therefore
must be kept clear.The explanations provided by the appellant do
not align with the legal requirements or the evidence available.For
the reasons above, the authority respectfully requests that the
appeal be refused and the penalty charge upheld.

4) There doesn't appear to anything submitted as to why my appeal should be denied, only within the evidence i.e. the NoR to the appear to NTO posted earlier in this thread. They are essentially arguing I must have entered the zone from the opposite end of canterbury street from what I did based on the direction my car is parked and have included an  image of these signs. Plus the image from 2020 of the sign I did pass.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: John U.K. on March 02, 2026, 11:34:34 am
When is your hearing?
Have you elected for a video hearing(as opposed to one on the papers)?
Given that less than 28 days have elapsed since their NOR was served, arranging a hearing and getting the council's evidence must be something of a record!

 . . .

You'll need to post their evidence pl. Others might be able to advise on formatting.


NoR dated, posted and e-mailed 4th.Feb.

jimzzr, as advised, please give us the date of the hearing with TPT. In the evidence pack there should be a 2-3 page summary of why Medway think yr appeal should be denied. Please post this (including the "text for another case", together with a copy of yr appeal .
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: tincombe on March 02, 2026, 10:00:22 am
When is your hearing?
Have you elected for a video hearing(as opposed to one on the papers)?
Given that less than 28 days have elapsed since their NOR was served, arranging a hearing and getting the council's evidence must be something of a record!

IMO, you have procedural points arising from their NOR, namely:

Failure to inform you about the adjudicator's power to award costs;
Failure to notify you correctly of your regulatory appeal rights and the council's power to increase the penalty charge;

(the above are mandatory duties).
 
So your appeal grounds are now at least contravention did not occur and procedural impropriety.

You'll need to post their evidence pl. Others might be able to advise on formatting.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: Incandescent on March 01, 2026, 10:58:13 pm
Quote
Obviously I can add additional evidence to expose this. However, is there a separate complaint route regarding medways attempt to pervert the proceedings.
Clearly, you need to refute their evidence at London Tribunals and make sure the adjudicator is aware of an attempt to falsify evidence.

As to a separate complaint regarding perverting the course of justice, this is a criminal matter. Many years ago after parking was decriminalised in 1991, there was a case in Manchester where records were falsified and a council employee went to jail for it. However, I cannot remember the details as it was in the 90s
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on March 01, 2026, 10:33:37 pm
Hi All,

I have now received a response/evidence from medway to my appeal to the traffic penalty tribunal.

I have some issues I would like some advice on.

1) Medway have submitted the text for another case in their outline of their case. Can they correct this.

2) In relation to the cpz signage heading north on canterbury st Medway have included an image of the sign on the LHS only showing a compliant sign.

However, on investigation I have discovered that this image in in fact a screen grab from google street view back in December 2020.

This is not the default street view image, more/most recent images shown non compliant signage. The 2020 image also shows different fencing.

Given that it's not possible to accidently screen grab past street view images this is clearly an attempted deception.

Obviously I can add additional evidence to expose this. However, is there a separate complaint route regarding medways attempt to pervert the proceedings.

3) Regarding their direction of travel argument that have included a set of compliant signs from some over entry point, however a) there are more than 2 entry points. b)given that according to Highway Code Rule 248, you must not park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space. I don't see how one can reasonably draw some adverse conclusion from the direction I was parked

Many Thanks

Jim
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on February 05, 2026, 04:59:46 pm
You can just say you rely on your reps - you can't introduce new points that you've not put top them unless they are in the notice of rejection.

So you can add a note about them being mistaken that you hadn't turned around in the zone having only passed the entry under dispute.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on February 05, 2026, 04:06:17 pm
Yes I'm sure I stated in the informal challenge that I turned around. I've not yet looked at the further tribunal appeal website. Do I get to add additional points if so what.

So far Medway have refused to be drawn into commenting on their signage. Do I need more photos?


I actually turned around by going right down a side street (green st) then left into theodore pl then right back into green st, finally turning Left onto  canterbury street at the same place I turned off. None of this exits the zone or passes any CPZ signs.

I should also say I had two passengers who can corroborate that we entered the going N on canterbury street.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on February 04, 2026, 06:07:46 pm
No discount so no brainer to register a tribunal appeal.

I guess we should have repeated the car was turned around but if you ensure you have an online/telephone hearing you should see this off as an honest account.

Note I think you used my initial challenge:

I was puzzled to get the PCN and spent some time retracing my route which was, north on Canterbury Street, before turning around and parking outside Medway Medals.

And the rejection also has contradictory paragraphs on timed restriction and at all times?
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on February 04, 2026, 04:28:05 pm
Hi All,

They rejected the appeal. It would appear they believe drivers never turn around with a cpz. Letter below

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/IKO1BLP_xl.jpg)

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Ht9tAwH_xl.jpg)

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/98cDcW1_xl.jpg)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on January 06, 2026, 12:57:25 pm
Looks fine. The key is your pictures to show the adjudicator if they don't cancel and you want to appeal.

If you can go back and take close ups of signage that would help plus if they've fixed them it will confirm they were defective.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on January 05, 2026, 07:37:32 pm
Just an update. I now have the NTO from Medway.

I'll put in an appeal sticking to the main point as suggested by HC Andersen, using the same photo as before.

draft for comment below.

I am appealing on the grounds that the contravention did not occur. The single yellow line on which I was parked had no time plate and in addition the signage at the entry to the CPZ is for all practical purposes absent.

Specifically:

The CPZ sign on the left hand side of Canterbury street cannot be seen at all driving into the zone – it has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible.

The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle that it is impossible to read it or identify it as a CPZ sign, if you see it at all, particularly when driving at night as I was.

I have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).

As the council has failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look forward to early confirmation.

 
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: roythebus on December 01, 2025, 02:02:06 pm
Agreed, I did have a look when I was driving my bus round there in the middle of the night and noted a number of signs that had been rotated in various locations. I was there every night last week! Sorry I can't be of more help.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on December 01, 2025, 11:42:53 am
Sorry for the delay replying. For some reason didn't get email notification of the last couple of posts.


Yes I'm the registered keeper on day of contravention (owned car for many years outright). Details are all correct.


@roythebus the signs have been rotated. I've included what was my view (N. on canterbury) and a view from the road on the left (stafford st). From the stafford st view you can see a zone E entry sign and behind it across the road the reverse side (zone end) of the other zone E entry sign.



(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/TuOlRIY_xl.jpg)

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Z1Ud3G7_xl.jpg)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: H C Andersen on November 25, 2025, 04:55:05 pm
OP, were you the registered keeper on the date of the contravention and are your DVLA details the same and current?


As regards the contravention:
In any formal reps pl forget all about parking bays and timings, not only aren't they relevant, they're confusing you and by the looks of the authority's rejection them as well and IMO undermining the credibility of your main argument which is that you were not parked in the vicinity of an applicable sign neither had you passed the alternative i.e. CPZ entry signs which is what I gather is your argument and not that you had, you'd noted the CPZ times but then were confused by parking place signage because this isn't a statutory defence and only goes to mitigation.

The issue is: were you parked on a waiting restriction whose times had been conveyed to you clearly and which were adequate in the circumstances?

Facts:
You were parked on a SYL which means a part-time waiting restriction.
There weren't any stand-alone upright traffic signs of the form prescribed in Schedule 4 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regs in the vicinity.

The burden then falls to the council to prove that the restriction fell within a Controlled Parking Zone whose timings were adequately signed at your point of entry into the zone by traffic signs of the form prescribed in Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Regs with a traffic order underpinning the restriction.

In short, as regards the contravention stick to the issues of parked, there weren't any applicable traffic signs in the vicinity and as you had not passed any CPZ entry signs the restriction, whatever it was, had not been signed correctly or adequately, was of no effect and therefore a contravention could not be committed in the unique circumstances of your case.

As regards their response:
Errors/inconsistencies/incoherence/improprieties etc. don't really count for much at this stage. Furthermore, I could not see an adjudicator attaching much weight to their nonsense regarding instant PCNs given that you've not claimed that any possible exemption applies in your case e.g. loading, alighting etc.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: roythebus on November 25, 2025, 04:19:15 pm
I see no signs! Maybe the flagshaggers can take some of the blame if their flags are covering road signs. I sometimes use that road on my nightly rail replacement bus driving, in fact I'm round that way tonight so will have a close look unless I'm diverted by more road works.

The CPZ is presumably to prevent all-day parking for train commuters and match days at Priestfield Stadium which is within walking distance.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on November 25, 2025, 03:45:25 pm
The rejection is gibberish they say the times of the restriction and entry times clearly indicated on CPZ entry but then say Canterbury Street is no waiting at any time.

This is no doubt a clumsy template mistake but it makes them look very silly.

I would await the NTO - the entry sign issue is their hill to ultimately die on.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on November 25, 2025, 02:38:44 pm
Hi,

As was predicted Medway have rejected the informal appeal. Have made no reference to my photos of the sign(s) and state "The times are clearly indicated on the entry signs to the Controlled Parking Zone.".

I guess I now need to wait for the NTO and put it in (the same?) again, which I happy to do so long as you guys think the odds are on my side.

Rejection here for those interested

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/hdkqu4P_xl.jpg)

(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/qPyObNO_xl.jpg)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on November 06, 2025, 10:55:12 am
A bay with an earlier end time is with mentioning if you had seen it as it seems you did.

I also note that a nearby bay where I initially tried to park has an end time of xxx, which is misleading in a controlled zone. 
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on November 05, 2025, 05:36:00 pm
Yes I wasn't sure about the CPZs.

I had a look on Maps and there is a parking bay outside KFC where the time ends at 10pm to match the CPZ, but there is another bay on the opposite side near where you were that ends at 6pm (if still current). While CPZs control only single yellow lines, bay times are often the same.

Is my edited version in post above OK, or is it worth me taking a trip out to check the bay times?

I know one of the bays on opposite side was definitely earlier (not sure if 6 or 8 pm) as there was a space about a ft too short for me I tried to get into.

edit GSV suggests I'm wrong about the bays on the side I parked adjoining the SYL and are 10 pm.

Thanks

Jim
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on November 05, 2025, 04:45:02 pm
Yes I wasn't sure about the CPZs.

I had a look on Maps and there is a parking bay outside KFC where the time ends at 10pm to match the CPZ, but there is another bay on the opposite side near where you were that ends at 6pm (if still current). While CPZs control only single yellow lines, bay times are often the same.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on November 05, 2025, 03:46:10 pm
Need to change this slightly I'm not sure there are any 6.30 cpzs. CPZ are only really used in gillingham (their map is confusing as it actually shows permit parking areas, some of which are also cpz's.

How does this sound?

--------

I am challenging PCN number MW93865873 on the basis that the contravention did not occur owing to inadequate signage.

I parked on a single yellow line on Canterbury Street and did not see any controlled zone signs on my route, and also checked the yellow line for a timeplate, finding none.

I am an occasional visitor to Gillingham and am well aware of controlled zones.  On a previous visit to Gillingham I recalled the CPZ operating from 8am to 8pm. This was only 0.5 km from where I parked on this visit, so felt sure this was also the case.

I was puzzled to get the PCN and spent some time retracing my route which was, north on Canterbury Street, before turning around and parking outside Medway Medals.

I managed to find seriously defective entry signs:

The sign on the left hand side of the road cannot be seen at all – it has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible.

The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle that it is impossible to read it when driving or even to spot it’s there.

I have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).

As the council has failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look forward to early confirmation.

I hope too this will aid you in restoring the signs to their compliant positions.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on November 04, 2025, 10:31:27 pm
This is better I think.

--------

I am challenging PCN number MW93865873 on the basis that the contravention did not occur owing to inadequate signage.

I parked on a single yellow line on Canterbury Street and did not see any controlled zone signs on my route, and also checked the yellow line for a timeplate, finding none.

I am well aware of controlled zones in Medway and have only encountered ones that end at 6.30pm, so felt sure this was also the case.

I was puzzled to get the PCN and spent some time retracing my route which was, north on Canterbury Street, before turning around and parking outside Medway Medals.

I managed to find seriously defective entry signs:

The sign on the left hand side of the road cannot be seen at all – it has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible.

The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle that it is impossible to read it when driving or even to spot it’s there.

I have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).

As the council has failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look forward to early confirmation.

I hope too this will aid you in restoring the signs to their compliant positions.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: Harley on November 04, 2025, 10:29:53 pm
Hi I went into James street the exact same way and got a PCN on Richmond road .I was going to the Sunlight Centre . I do not understand but I’m never going to the Sunlight Centre again . Why have services that you cannot access at the Sunlight Centre .
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on November 04, 2025, 09:56:26 pm
It needs tweaking. I'll do it later.

Just a gentle reminder on this. PCN was served 25/10 so still plenty of time.

Thanks

Jim
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 31, 2025, 09:39:40 am
It needs tweaking. I'll do it later.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: Incandescent on October 30, 2025, 11:42:31 pm
Any comments on draft appeal in above post?
Looks OK, but don't expect them to roll over and cancel the PCN. You must be prepared to stand your ground and take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 30, 2025, 08:51:24 pm
Any comments on draft appeal in above post?
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 29, 2025, 06:23:41 pm
Draft Appeal

I am appealing the issue of PCN number MW93865873 on the basis that the contravention did not occur. The reason for this is detailed below.

The signage entering the CPZ is seriously defective and thus invalidating Controlled Parking Zone E. Given that the CPZ is invalid due to poor signage, the single yellow line on which I was parked is therefore not enforceable since, as the CPZ is invalid, the line has no hours of enforcement. The single yellow line also had no yellow time plate.

The defective CPZ signage is detailed below

I entered CPZ E heading north on Canterbury St, before turning around and parking on the SYL outside Medway Medals where the alleged contravention occurred.

The signs at the entry to CPZ E, where my car entered the CPZ, are located at the junction of Canterbury St and Stafford St. The attached photograph shows the drivers view of the sign(s) approaching entry to CPZ.
As can be seen from the attached photo is very difficult to see either CPZ E start sign. The left hand and right hand signs are arrowed to help enable their identification.

The sign on the left hand side of the road cannot be seen at all. The left hand side sign has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible. The left hand sign can only be seen if actually in Stafford St.

The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated, it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle, that it is completely impossible to read it. The sign is also unlit and it was dark at the time of driving past it.

It is completely unreasonable to expect any motorist to be able to read and interpret either sign whilst driving north on Canterbury St. as they are currently positioned.

From google street view it can be seen that the signs have been like this for many years and rarely, if ever, maintained. Medway Council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996. The council have demonstrably failed to do this. The traffic order for the CPZ E is therefore invalid.

Link to Photo of entry to zone



(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/gofGYcw_xl.jpg)

Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 29, 2025, 02:09:45 pm
A CPZ controls single yellow lines. No timeplates are needed unless certain lines have times that differ from the CPZ, or in certain situations such as to emphasise dual restrictions such as coinciding with school zig-zags. 
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 29, 2025, 02:00:47 pm
Draft a short challenge and post here first.

OK will do.

Does this just need to focus on the cpz signage (i.e. does the faulty cpz signage automatically invalidate the SYL) or do I need to address the no yellow time plate for the SYL section as well?
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 29, 2025, 01:43:54 pm
Draft a short challenge and post here first.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 29, 2025, 11:24:54 am
So this is the entry - well worth taking this on.

(https://i.ibb.co/3mPgVXKX/Screenshot-2025-10-29-at-11-01-40.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/W4MCb3pM/med.jpg)

I believe so.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 29, 2025, 11:00:16 am
So this is the entry - well worth taking this on.

(https://i.ibb.co/3mPgVXKX/Screenshot-2025-10-29-at-11-01-40.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/W4MCb3pM/med.jpg)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 29, 2025, 10:16:35 am
So have you got your own pics of that zone entry - across the whole road.

If there is just one sign not fully facing traffic on the right this isn't adequate but Medway is an obdurate council and you'd probably have to see this through to the tribunal.

Yes pictures 6 and 7 of mypicts link are mine

https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw (https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw)

Picture 6 shows the view the driver has approaching the signs along canterbury st. Only the RH sign is visible at all, the left hand sign looks like just a pole.

Picture 7 shows a view at right angles standing in stafford st - here the LH entry sign is visible. The rear of the RH sign is also visible, that should be facing the traffic exiting the zone.

Are these adequate or do I need more (I have a couple of others but are pretty much the same as the ones posted.

Clearly Medway don't give a toss about signage as you can see from GSV that they've been like this for over 5 years.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 29, 2025, 09:35:59 am
So have you got your own pics of that zone entry - across the whole road.

If there is just one sign not fully facing traffic on the right this isn't adequate but Medway is an obdurate council and you'd probably have to see this through to the tribunal.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 11:02:30 pm
OK, so badly maintained signage.
The council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So in your case the contravention did not occur as the sign is not properly visible to approaching motorists.

From my understanding the signage is defective so the cpz is invalid.

How does this nullify the original SYL offence?

Does the traffic order that makes the cpz effectively also make the SLY so in effect it's completely unenforceable.

Or is it defaulted back to no cpz and therefore should have a yellow time plate. Does each SYL section need a yellow plate if not in a cpz ? - I can see on GSV there is a SYL with a yellow plate further north, could they argue I should have used the times on that one.

Many Thanks for your help.

Jim
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: Incandescent on October 28, 2025, 10:36:42 pm
OK, so badly maintained signage.
The council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18

So in your case the contravention did not occur as the sign is not properly visble to approaching motorists.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 07:33:51 pm
Please give us a GSV link to that sign.

I had given it earlier but as I said the sign is even more rotated on GSV. Between green house and blue garage RHS canterbury st. It looks like a zone end sign on GSV as you can't see the back of it.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/B8AyWuMyxCR1nnao8 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/B8AyWuMyxCR1nnao8)

The GSV image from May 23 is closest to how the sign is now

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMKYFttfXMWBYaSi9 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMKYFttfXMWBYaSi9)

This is the other zone E sign but it is only visible exiting stafford street - can't be seen driving north on canterbury st

https://maps.app.goo.gl/hQamnwomwkBJf2DAA (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hQamnwomwkBJf2DAA)

Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: Incandescent on October 28, 2025, 07:11:56 pm
Please give us a GSV link to that sign.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 06:24:13 pm
OK, so you were in zone E?

Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.

Yes I was in zone E. At the very bottom of the map to the LHS you can see vicarage road marked. So I drove in with that on my left. If the blue lines are the boundaries they don't really correspond very well to the signage. The first signs are at Stafford St which is the next road up on LHS.

google maps heading North on canterbury st with vicarage road on left

https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A)

I don't really understand that map do the zones merge but then if you were to exit vicarage road and turn into canterbury st you have end of zone signs but no start of zone.

I think this is the zone E entry sign as I said earlier, opposite the stafford rd junction between green house and blue garage

https://imgpile.com/p/Ly0bkG4 (https://imgpile.com/p/Ly0bkG4)

(For some reason it won't let me embed the imgpile links as images)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 06:03:14 pm
OK, so you were in zone E?

Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.

Yes I was in zone E. At the very bottom of the map to the LHS you can see vicarage road marked. So I drove in with that on my left. If the blue lines are the boundaries they don't really correspond very well to the signage. The first signs are at Stafford St which is the next road up on LHS.

google maps heading North on canterbury st with vicarage road on left

https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A)

I don't really understand that map do the zones merge but then if you were to exit vicarage road and turn into canterbury st you have end of zone signs but no start of zone.
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 28, 2025, 04:45:24 pm
OK, so you were in zone E?

Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.

(https://i.ibb.co/C3hXD8pw/Screenshot-2025-10-28-at-16-43-21.png)
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 04:03:23 pm
If the entry signage is defective on your route into the zone you should win this.
How did you turn into Stafford Street?

I looked on Maps and some parking bays end much earlier which could give a false sense if security but yellow lines are controlled only by their own timeplates or CPZ entry signs.

Sorry didn't make myself clear. I was parked on canterbury st. I didn't turn into stafford street I carried on past it. It's very confusing as someone has turned the cpz signs for the north end of canterbury street through 90 degrees, so you can't see them as you drive past. I came down canterbury st, heading north, so passing stafford st on my left, to park further up on the right (I turned around and doubled back to park hence car is pointing south rather than north). 

If you look very closely and zoom in you can just about see one entry sign at an angle on canterbury street opposite the stafford st junction. You can't see the other unless stood actually in stafford street.

Hope that makes sense now.

edit It not so clear on maps as my photos as the sign is even further rotated, but looking at maps I believe the start sign on the right is between the green house and blue garage - on maps it looks like an end of zone sign, but it actually has a start of cpz on it's reverse (it's more visible on my photos as not quite as rotated round).

Thanks

Jim
Title: Re: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: stamfordman on October 28, 2025, 03:09:40 pm
If the entry signage is defective on your route into the zone you should win this.
How did you turn into Stafford Street?

I looked on Maps and some parking bays end much earlier which could give a false sense if security but yellow lines are controlled only by their own timeplates or CPZ entry signs.

(https://i.ibb.co/m5mB83xK/gill.jpg)
Title: Medway Code 01 restricted street, canterbury st. Gillingham cpz signage a shambles.
Post by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 01:39:14 pm
Hi,

I would like your opinions on the possibility of defending a parking ticket issued by Medway council.

The situation is I was given a ticket parked on a SYL near the north end of Canterbury st at around 9.30 pm. The section of SYL had no time plate and so I assumed it was 6 or 6.30 pm like the rest of medway. Street view link of location below along with links to the PCN



https://maps.app.goo.gl/sF4jwF5UpCsfJotA7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/sF4jwF5UpCsfJotA7)

The pcn is here https://imgpile.com/p/PzL2APv#jVCPtTl (https://imgpile.com/p/PzL2APv#jVCPtTl)

I think the issue is that I had unknowing entered a CPZ.

Looking at google maps turning right from Waterloo Road (or left from Vicarage Rd) into Canterbury St there are two zone end signs. I therefore have come to the conclusion that Canterbury St. south of the Junction with Stafford St. is not in a controlled zone.

After some close up interrogation of google maps for the junction with Stafford Rd I think there may be rotated start of cpz signs for Canterbury st (on right and left) but its pretty much impossible to read either of them driving north on Canterbury St as they are not facing the traffic. The one on the LHS is completely impossible to see unless standing in Stafford St. The one on the right is not quite fully rotated but still impossible to read while driving, particularly as it was dark and the sign unlit. From google maps it appears they have been like this for five years.

I’ve been back and taken my own photographs, but the google maps gives an accurate impression of how they currently are.

Junction waterloo road with Canterbury st https://maps.app.goo.gl/aNdtwMWeouax2oCX7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/aNdtwMWeouax2oCX7)
Signs at junction with Stafford St. https://maps.app.goo.gl/jsiFx1vnMJf7q99J8 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/jsiFx1vnMJf7q99J8)

My Photos here https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw (https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw)

Many thanks for your assistance.

Jim