Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: jimzzr on October 28, 2025, 01:39:14 pm
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Looks fine. The key is your pictures to show the adjudicator if they don't cancel and you want to appeal.
If you can go back and take close ups of signage that would help plus if they've fixed them it will confirm they were defective.
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Just an update. I now have the NTO from Medway.
I'll put in an appeal sticking to the main point as suggested by HC Andersen, using the same photo as before.
draft for comment below.
I am appealing on the grounds that the contravention did not occur. The single yellow line on which I was parked had no time plate and in addition the signage at the entry to the CPZ is for all practical purposes absent.
Specifically:
The CPZ sign on the left hand side of Canterbury street cannot be seen at all driving into the zone – it has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible.
The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle that it is impossible to read it or identify it as a CPZ sign, if you see it at all, particularly when driving at night as I was.
I have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).
As the council has failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look forward to early confirmation.
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Agreed, I did have a look when I was driving my bus round there in the middle of the night and noted a number of signs that had been rotated in various locations. I was there every night last week! Sorry I can't be of more help.
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Sorry for the delay replying. For some reason didn't get email notification of the last couple of posts.
Yes I'm the registered keeper on day of contravention (owned car for many years outright). Details are all correct.
@roythebus the signs have been rotated. I've included what was my view (N. on canterbury) and a view from the road on the left (stafford st). From the stafford st view you can see a zone E entry sign and behind it across the road the reverse side (zone end) of the other zone E entry sign.
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/TuOlRIY_xl.jpg)
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/Z1Ud3G7_xl.jpg)
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OP, were you the registered keeper on the date of the contravention and are your DVLA details the same and current?
As regards the contravention:
In any formal reps pl forget all about parking bays and timings, not only aren't they relevant, they're confusing you and by the looks of the authority's rejection them as well and IMO undermining the credibility of your main argument which is that you were not parked in the vicinity of an applicable sign neither had you passed the alternative i.e. CPZ entry signs which is what I gather is your argument and not that you had, you'd noted the CPZ times but then were confused by parking place signage because this isn't a statutory defence and only goes to mitigation.
The issue is: were you parked on a waiting restriction whose times had been conveyed to you clearly and which were adequate in the circumstances?
Facts:
You were parked on a SYL which means a part-time waiting restriction.
There weren't any stand-alone upright traffic signs of the form prescribed in Schedule 4 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regs in the vicinity.
The burden then falls to the council to prove that the restriction fell within a Controlled Parking Zone whose timings were adequately signed at your point of entry into the zone by traffic signs of the form prescribed in Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Regs with a traffic order underpinning the restriction.
In short, as regards the contravention stick to the issues of parked, there weren't any applicable traffic signs in the vicinity and as you had not passed any CPZ entry signs the restriction, whatever it was, had not been signed correctly or adequately, was of no effect and therefore a contravention could not be committed in the unique circumstances of your case.
As regards their response:
Errors/inconsistencies/incoherence/improprieties etc. don't really count for much at this stage. Furthermore, I could not see an adjudicator attaching much weight to their nonsense regarding instant PCNs given that you've not claimed that any possible exemption applies in your case e.g. loading, alighting etc.
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I see no signs! Maybe the flagshaggers can take some of the blame if their flags are covering road signs. I sometimes use that road on my nightly rail replacement bus driving, in fact I'm round that way tonight so will have a close look unless I'm diverted by more road works.
The CPZ is presumably to prevent all-day parking for train commuters and match days at Priestfield Stadium which is within walking distance.
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The rejection is gibberish they say the times of the restriction and entry times clearly indicated on CPZ entry but then say Canterbury Street is no waiting at any time.
This is no doubt a clumsy template mistake but it makes them look very silly.
I would await the NTO - the entry sign issue is their hill to ultimately die on.
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Hi,
As was predicted Medway have rejected the informal appeal. Have made no reference to my photos of the sign(s) and state "The times are clearly indicated on the entry signs to the Controlled Parking Zone.".
I guess I now need to wait for the NTO and put it in (the same?) again, which I happy to do so long as you guys think the odds are on my side.
Rejection here for those interested
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/hdkqu4P_xl.jpg)
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/qPyObNO_xl.jpg)
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A bay with an earlier end time is with mentioning if you had seen it as it seems you did.
I also note that a nearby bay where I initially tried to park has an end time of xxx, which is misleading in a controlled zone.
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Yes I wasn't sure about the CPZs.
I had a look on Maps and there is a parking bay outside KFC where the time ends at 10pm to match the CPZ, but there is another bay on the opposite side near where you were that ends at 6pm (if still current). While CPZs control only single yellow lines, bay times are often the same.
Is my edited version in post above OK, or is it worth me taking a trip out to check the bay times?
I know one of the bays on opposite side was definitely earlier (not sure if 6 or 8 pm) as there was a space about a ft too short for me I tried to get into.
edit GSV suggests I'm wrong about the bays on the side I parked adjoining the SYL and are 10 pm.
Thanks
Jim
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Yes I wasn't sure about the CPZs.
I had a look on Maps and there is a parking bay outside KFC where the time ends at 10pm to match the CPZ, but there is another bay on the opposite side near where you were that ends at 6pm (if still current). While CPZs control only single yellow lines, bay times are often the same.
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Need to change this slightly I'm not sure there are any 6.30 cpzs. CPZ are only really used in gillingham (their map is confusing as it actually shows permit parking areas, some of which are also cpz's.
How does this sound?
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I am challenging PCN number MW93865873 on the basis that the contravention did not occur owing to inadequate signage.
I parked on a single yellow line on Canterbury Street and did not see any controlled zone signs on my route, and also checked the yellow line for a timeplate, finding none.
I am an occasional visitor to Gillingham and am well aware of controlled zones. On a previous visit to Gillingham I recalled the CPZ operating from 8am to 8pm. This was only 0.5 km from where I parked on this visit, so felt sure this was also the case.
I was puzzled to get the PCN and spent some time retracing my route which was, north on Canterbury Street, before turning around and parking outside Medway Medals.
I managed to find seriously defective entry signs:
The sign on the left hand side of the road cannot be seen at all – it has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible.
The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle that it is impossible to read it when driving or even to spot it’s there.
I have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).
As the council has failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look forward to early confirmation.
I hope too this will aid you in restoring the signs to their compliant positions.
[/quote]
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This is better I think.
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I am challenging PCN number MW93865873 on the basis that the contravention did not occur owing to inadequate signage.
I parked on a single yellow line on Canterbury Street and did not see any controlled zone signs on my route, and also checked the yellow line for a timeplate, finding none.
I am well aware of controlled zones in Medway and have only encountered ones that end at 6.30pm, so felt sure this was also the case.
I was puzzled to get the PCN and spent some time retracing my route which was, north on Canterbury Street, before turning around and parking outside Medway Medals.
I managed to find seriously defective entry signs:
The sign on the left hand side of the road cannot be seen at all – it has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible.
The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated: it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle that it is impossible to read it when driving or even to spot it’s there.
I have taken a picture to show this (enclosed).
As the council has failed to comply with its duty to maintain signs that convey the restriction to the drivers, the PCN must be cancelled and I look forward to early confirmation.
I hope too this will aid you in restoring the signs to their compliant positions.
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Hi I went into James street the exact same way and got a PCN on Richmond road .I was going to the Sunlight Centre . I do not understand but I’m never going to the Sunlight Centre again . Why have services that you cannot access at the Sunlight Centre .
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It needs tweaking. I'll do it later.
Just a gentle reminder on this. PCN was served 25/10 so still plenty of time.
Thanks
Jim
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It needs tweaking. I'll do it later.
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Any comments on draft appeal in above post?
Looks OK, but don't expect them to roll over and cancel the PCN. You must be prepared to stand your ground and take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
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Any comments on draft appeal in above post?
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Draft Appeal
I am appealing the issue of PCN number MW93865873 on the basis that the contravention did not occur. The reason for this is detailed below.
The signage entering the CPZ is seriously defective and thus invalidating Controlled Parking Zone E. Given that the CPZ is invalid due to poor signage, the single yellow line on which I was parked is therefore not enforceable since, as the CPZ is invalid, the line has no hours of enforcement. The single yellow line also had no yellow time plate.
The defective CPZ signage is detailed below
I entered CPZ E heading north on Canterbury St, before turning around and parking on the SYL outside Medway Medals where the alleged contravention occurred.
The signs at the entry to CPZ E, where my car entered the CPZ, are located at the junction of Canterbury St and Stafford St. The attached photograph shows the drivers view of the sign(s) approaching entry to CPZ.
As can be seen from the attached photo is very difficult to see either CPZ E start sign. The left hand and right hand signs are arrowed to help enable their identification.
The sign on the left hand side of the road cannot be seen at all. The left hand side sign has been rotated completely through 90 degrees and only its pole is visible. The left hand sign can only be seen if actually in Stafford St.
The sign on the right hand side is also severely rotated, it can just be made out that there is a sign there, but is at such an acute angle, that it is completely impossible to read it. The sign is also unlit and it was dark at the time of driving past it.
It is completely unreasonable to expect any motorist to be able to read and interpret either sign whilst driving north on Canterbury St. as they are currently positioned.
From google street view it can be seen that the signs have been like this for many years and rarely, if ever, maintained. Medway Council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996. The council have demonstrably failed to do this. The traffic order for the CPZ E is therefore invalid.
Link to Photo of entry to zone
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/gofGYcw_xl.jpg)
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A CPZ controls single yellow lines. No timeplates are needed unless certain lines have times that differ from the CPZ, or in certain situations such as to emphasise dual restrictions such as coinciding with school zig-zags.
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Draft a short challenge and post here first.
OK will do.
Does this just need to focus on the cpz signage (i.e. does the faulty cpz signage automatically invalidate the SYL) or do I need to address the no yellow time plate for the SYL section as well?
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Draft a short challenge and post here first.
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So this is the entry - well worth taking this on.
(https://i.ibb.co/3mPgVXKX/Screenshot-2025-10-29-at-11-01-40.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/W4MCb3pM/med.jpg)
I believe so.
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So this is the entry - well worth taking this on.
(https://i.ibb.co/3mPgVXKX/Screenshot-2025-10-29-at-11-01-40.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/W4MCb3pM/med.jpg)
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So have you got your own pics of that zone entry - across the whole road.
If there is just one sign not fully facing traffic on the right this isn't adequate but Medway is an obdurate council and you'd probably have to see this through to the tribunal.
Yes pictures 6 and 7 of mypicts link are mine
https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw (https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw)
Picture 6 shows the view the driver has approaching the signs along canterbury st. Only the RH sign is visible at all, the left hand sign looks like just a pole.
Picture 7 shows a view at right angles standing in stafford st - here the LH entry sign is visible. The rear of the RH sign is also visible, that should be facing the traffic exiting the zone.
Are these adequate or do I need more (I have a couple of others but are pretty much the same as the ones posted.
Clearly Medway don't give a toss about signage as you can see from GSV that they've been like this for over 5 years.
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So have you got your own pics of that zone entry - across the whole road.
If there is just one sign not fully facing traffic on the right this isn't adequate but Medway is an obdurate council and you'd probably have to see this through to the tribunal.
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OK, so badly maintained signage.
The council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
So in your case the contravention did not occur as the sign is not properly visible to approaching motorists.
From my understanding the signage is defective so the cpz is invalid.
How does this nullify the original SYL offence?
Does the traffic order that makes the cpz effectively also make the SLY so in effect it's completely unenforceable.
Or is it defaulted back to no cpz and therefore should have a yellow time plate. Does each SYL section need a yellow plate if not in a cpz ? - I can see on GSV there is a SYL with a yellow plate further north, could they argue I should have used the times on that one.
Many Thanks for your help.
Jim
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OK, so badly maintained signage.
The council are under a duty to maintain signs reflecting traffic orders they have introduced in Regulation 18 (1) (b) in The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
So in your case the contravention did not occur as the sign is not properly visble to approaching motorists.
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Please give us a GSV link to that sign.
I had given it earlier but as I said the sign is even more rotated on GSV. Between green house and blue garage RHS canterbury st. It looks like a zone end sign on GSV as you can't see the back of it.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/B8AyWuMyxCR1nnao8 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/B8AyWuMyxCR1nnao8)
The GSV image from May 23 is closest to how the sign is now
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMKYFttfXMWBYaSi9 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fMKYFttfXMWBYaSi9)
This is the other zone E sign but it is only visible exiting stafford street - can't be seen driving north on canterbury st
https://maps.app.goo.gl/hQamnwomwkBJf2DAA (https://maps.app.goo.gl/hQamnwomwkBJf2DAA)
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Please give us a GSV link to that sign.
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OK, so you were in zone E?
Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.
Yes I was in zone E. At the very bottom of the map to the LHS you can see vicarage road marked. So I drove in with that on my left. If the blue lines are the boundaries they don't really correspond very well to the signage. The first signs are at Stafford St which is the next road up on LHS.
google maps heading North on canterbury st with vicarage road on left
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A)
I don't really understand that map do the zones merge but then if you were to exit vicarage road and turn into canterbury st you have end of zone signs but no start of zone.
I think this is the zone E entry sign as I said earlier, opposite the stafford rd junction between green house and blue garage
https://imgpile.com/p/Ly0bkG4 (https://imgpile.com/p/Ly0bkG4)
(For some reason it won't let me embed the imgpile links as images)
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OK, so you were in zone E?
Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.
Yes I was in zone E. At the very bottom of the map to the LHS you can see vicarage road marked. So I drove in with that on my left. If the blue lines are the boundaries they don't really correspond very well to the signage. The first signs are at Stafford St which is the next road up on LHS.
google maps heading North on canterbury st with vicarage road on left
https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A (https://maps.app.goo.gl/dL3x8VvJK5k8qts9A)
I don't really understand that map do the zones merge but then if you were to exit vicarage road and turn into canterbury st you have end of zone signs but no start of zone.
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OK, so you were in zone E?
Look at the map and recall your entry to zone E and then check signs at the entry.
(https://i.ibb.co/C3hXD8pw/Screenshot-2025-10-28-at-16-43-21.png)
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If the entry signage is defective on your route into the zone you should win this.
How did you turn into Stafford Street?
I looked on Maps and some parking bays end much earlier which could give a false sense if security but yellow lines are controlled only by their own timeplates or CPZ entry signs.
Sorry didn't make myself clear. I was parked on canterbury st. I didn't turn into stafford street I carried on past it. It's very confusing as someone has turned the cpz signs for the north end of canterbury street through 90 degrees, so you can't see them as you drive past. I came down canterbury st, heading north, so passing stafford st on my left, to park further up on the right (I turned around and doubled back to park hence car is pointing south rather than north).
If you look very closely and zoom in you can just about see one entry sign at an angle on canterbury street opposite the stafford st junction. You can't see the other unless stood actually in stafford street.
Hope that makes sense now.
edit It not so clear on maps as my photos as the sign is even further rotated, but looking at maps I believe the start sign on the right is between the green house and blue garage - on maps it looks like an end of zone sign, but it actually has a start of cpz on it's reverse (it's more visible on my photos as not quite as rotated round).
Thanks
Jim
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If the entry signage is defective on your route into the zone you should win this.
How did you turn into Stafford Street?
I looked on Maps and some parking bays end much earlier which could give a false sense if security but yellow lines are controlled only by their own timeplates or CPZ entry signs.
(https://i.ibb.co/m5mB83xK/gill.jpg)
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Hi,
I would like your opinions on the possibility of defending a parking ticket issued by Medway council.
The situation is I was given a ticket parked on a SYL near the north end of Canterbury st at around 9.30 pm. The section of SYL had no time plate and so I assumed it was 6 or 6.30 pm like the rest of medway. Street view link of location below along with links to the PCN
https://maps.app.goo.gl/sF4jwF5UpCsfJotA7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/sF4jwF5UpCsfJotA7)
The pcn is here https://imgpile.com/p/PzL2APv#jVCPtTl (https://imgpile.com/p/PzL2APv#jVCPtTl)
I think the issue is that I had unknowing entered a CPZ.
Looking at google maps turning right from Waterloo Road (or left from Vicarage Rd) into Canterbury St there are two zone end signs. I therefore have come to the conclusion that Canterbury St. south of the Junction with Stafford St. is not in a controlled zone.
After some close up interrogation of google maps for the junction with Stafford Rd I think there may be rotated start of cpz signs for Canterbury st (on right and left) but its pretty much impossible to read either of them driving north on Canterbury St as they are not facing the traffic. The one on the LHS is completely impossible to see unless standing in Stafford St. The one on the right is not quite fully rotated but still impossible to read while driving, particularly as it was dark and the sign unlit. From google maps it appears they have been like this for five years.
I’ve been back and taken my own photographs, but the google maps gives an accurate impression of how they currently are.
Junction waterloo road with Canterbury st https://maps.app.goo.gl/aNdtwMWeouax2oCX7 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/aNdtwMWeouax2oCX7)
Signs at junction with Stafford St. https://maps.app.goo.gl/jsiFx1vnMJf7q99J8 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/jsiFx1vnMJf7q99J8)
My Photos here https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw (https://imgpile.com/p/VlmyDPw)
Many thanks for your assistance.
Jim