Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: mnstar on October 26, 2025, 02:34:46 pm
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Regarding the above exploit mentioned of having to use the 0845 371 9901 phone number to pay and therefore the PCN's for Trafford Council being invalid - hypothetically if I was to keep making the same parking offence in Trafford , would that mean I could get off each one on this technicality?
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Good news
PCN has been cancelled
Reply from council is below:
Dear Sir/Madam,
I refer to your further correspondence received in connection with Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)
TR80431883.
After reviewing the system as well as the CCTV footage of the incident, as your vehicle was not captured
entering the junction, we are not convinced that the PCN should have been issued. We apologize for
any inconvenience caused by the issuing of this PCN.
For future reference, it is important to clarify that the junction has been designed to manage traffic flow
across multiple connecting lanes, including four exiting lanes and a designated bus lane. Whilst the
junction may appear extensive due to its coverage across more than one road, its placement is
compliant with traffic regulations and are intended to prevent congestion and obstruction at busy
intersections.
The PCN issued to your vehicle has been cancelled. This case has now been closed, and no further
action is required.
Yours Sincerely.
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I plan to use the following for my appeal
1. The space in front of my car is longer than the part of my car that was in the box therefore I was not stopped by the stationary vehicle in front of me.
2. The part of the box that I stopped in extends beyond the end of the junction entering the roundabout which makes the box too large for its purpose and therefore potentially illegal
3. The PCN gives the location as the roundabout name only and not the specific junction and is therefore not valid.
4. The Video doesn't show entry into the box so moment of 'offence' isn't captured. Therefore it is not sufficient to prove anything and not enforceable.
5. The penalty exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case.
The PCN and the Notice to owner issued by the authority both offer a method of payment by telephone the number that needs be called being 0845 371 9901 this is a premium rate telephone number attracting a two part charge in addition to the normal service provider call charges The first part is an access charge to your service provider and the second part is a service charge which goes to the service you are calling
As the cost of paying by phone would exceed the statutory amount allowed by law then the statutory ground is made out and the PCN must be cancelled.
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OK
The penalty exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case
The PCN and the Notice to owner issued by the authority both offer a method of payment by telephone the number that needs be called being 0845 371 9901 this is a premium rate telephone number attracting a two part charge in addition to the normal service provider call charges The first part is an access charge to your service provider and the second part is a service charge which goes to the service you are calling
As the cost of paying by phone would exceed the statutory amount allowed by law then the statutory ground is made out and the PCN must be cancelled.
This ground has both won and lost at tribunal but Trafford have a record of of not dealing with this in their notice of rejection they will make to you. That will win as they are required by law to consider each point so you must make all the different points suggested.
Post a draft here before sending so it can be checked over to give you the best chance
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The PCN addressed to me has arrived now
https://imgpile.com/p/PmQ23Eg
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To be fair to VFS, they have in the past made representation and transferred the PCN to me.
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They are idiots only the person/company named on the PCN is allowed to make representations. This is the only way to transfer liability and the PCN is the only opportunity to do so. If no representation is made then a charge certificate is issued and the chance to appeal is lost.
The may have a contractual right to bill you if they need to pay but not if their own incompetence is the cause of the cost
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Below is the email from the lease company
"Dear Colleague,
As part of our commitment to providing you with the highest levels of service, we are writing to let you know that we have received notification from your leasing company regarding a Driving Offence for NG23EOZ.
You can find specific details of the charge within the attached documents.
Why are we making you aware of the charge?
As the liability for the charge must transfer from the leasing company to ourselves and then to you, this process can take some time. As a result, to minimise the risk of the charge escalating, we make all of our colleagues aware of the charges at the earliest possible opportunity so immediate payment can be made to the issuer should you accept the charge.
What do you need to do?
If you accept liability, please make payment. Information on how to make payment can be found on the attached notification. If the discounted amount is not available, you may wait until the notification is reissued to you from the authority but please consider the points raised above as NHS Fleet Solutions cannot be held responsible for fees incurred from charges escalating.
If you do not accept liability please appeal to the authority. An appeal can only be submitted once the charge has been transferred into your name and the authority have wrote to you directly. If you appeal a charge before this point, it will most likely be automatically rejected by the issuer and can cause issues in the transfer of liability process. Any escalated charges as a result of an appeal submitted early will be passed across to the driver.
Kind regards,
The Fleet Solutions Team"
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OK. I have done that. I will wait for the PCN in my name now.
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no you must get onto VFS and instruct them to make representations to the council so they can so the council can transfer the PCN into your name.
If that is done and the council get it right I'll show my A**e in Mersey square
Regardless you will win with the date issue unless the adjudicator has a brain fart
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no you must get onto VFS and instruct them to make representations to the council so they can so the council can transfer the PCN into your name.
If that is done and the council get it right I'll show my A**e in Mersey square
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What are the terms in the 'small print' of your lease agreement for paying fines and penalties?
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I take it you are not the co sec of Volkswagen financial services so this has nothing to do with you other than if you decide to pay it.
VFS need to make representations on the not owner ground the need to supply with this some info re the lease. (do not tell them what to send) VFS cannot send the PCN to you to challenge IF the council accept the representation by VFS then they will send a new PCN to you.
They will mess this up giving you very strong arguments re procedural impropriety
the pcn is required by law to tell you that you have 21 days to pay the discount and 28 days to pay the full amount this one doesn't it gives you dates and they are wrong
The PCN was sent to me by email by VFS the lease company.
I am the lessee.
I shall wait for the council to send one to me directly
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I take it you are not the co sec of Volkswagen financial services so this has nothing to do with you other than if you decide to pay it.
VFS need to make representations on the not owner ground the need to supply with this some info re the lease. (do not tell them what to send) VFS cannot send the PCN to you to challenge IF the council accept the representation by VFS then they will send a new PCN to you.
They will mess this up giving you very strong arguments re procedural impropriety
the pcn is required by law to tell you that you have 21 days to pay the discount and 28 days to pay the full amount this one doesn't it gives you dates and they are wrong
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Links for video and photos
https://imgpile.com/p/ATgEaOO#2fzL468
https://imgpile.com/p/ATgEaOO#WBHipOa
https://imgpile.com/p/ATgEaOO#MYgPmNw
https://imgpile.com/p/ATgEaOO#BmrN45L
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Trafford PCN's have an exploitable flaw that can win on it's own but I can't see the photos of the PCN please post using the forum advice
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Video doesn't show entry into the box so moment of 'offence' isn't captured. Therefore not sufficient to prove anything and not enforceable.
Thank you.
I will add this to my appeal and let you know how they respond
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This must be a nice little earner for Trafford Council, in fact the YBJ would seem to have its sole purpose as a money making machine !.
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Video doesn't show entry into the box so moment of 'offence' isn't captured. Therefore not sufficient to prove anything and not enforceable.
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The blue grey Audi behind the red car 3rd row from the left with the rear wheels in the box
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Looks like a ridiculous box.
Which is your car.
(https://i.ibb.co/C3Z7CgYz/Get-Video1-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
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Reg no NG23EOZ
PCN TR80431883
Can be viewed at
https://pcnportal.trafford.gov.uk/
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You've redacted the PCN number and vehicle registration so we can't access the video evidence.
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As Imgur is no longer available in the UK, you will need to use
ibb.co (https://imgbb.com/) or https://imgpile.com/
for posting images.
Wherever possible, use the BBCode
See also
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Hi
I need advice regarding this PCN
The offence date was 3/10/25. Location 5063/White City Circle, Stretford, Trafford
I stopped in a yellow box with half the car still in the box.
I plan to appeal on 3 grounds
1. The space in front of my car is longer than the part of my car that was in the box therefore I was not stopped by the stationary vehicle in front of me (see PCN photo, car is circled)
2. The part of the box that I stopped in extends beyond the end of the junction entering into the roundabout which makes the box to large for its purpose and therefore potentailly illegal (see gmaps image)
3. The PCN on gives the roundanbout name only and not the specific junction and is therefore not valid. Please see the image of the PCN.
Do you think any of these points are valid?
Should I appeal or just pay the reduced fine
Thank you for your advice
(https://imgur.com/a/1cuAn2P)
https://imgur.com/a/1cuAn2P (https://imgur.com/a/1cuAn2P)