Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ultrajapes on November 03, 2023, 10:01:49 pm
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Well going back to basics, are there signs still in place?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WjvqgA5mJddbE4CCA
That being said, we've had a number of CPZ cases where the council, at the tribunal stage, simply fails to prove a CPZ is properly signed. I think most lay motorists don't take the point so councils have got used to the idea that they don't need to bother proving the signage.
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Does the fact that there is a considerable distance between the one CPZ sign I passed and my parking space make an appeal more likely to succeed?
Well, it depends on what one defines as "considerable distance". When the regs for CPZs came out there was guidance that essentially said these zones should not be larger than about 10 streets, (I forget the exact numbre) but nothing about distance. In practice, appeals based on this seldom succeed. The fact is you passed one of the signs. I'm afraid you need to be alert in London, and any time you park on a single yellow line without any signs defining the restriction, it is pretty certain that you are in a CPZ and need to be sure you're outside the restricted times.
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Did you drive past the CPZ sign in your photograph, or come down the other way and turn left ?
Thanks for your replies. I actually came the other way and did not pass the CPZ sign I posted in my last post - the only reason I took a picture of this particular sign is because it was pointed out to me by the parking warden and I walked back past it after returning from the GP for my son's appointment.
I have been back to the area, and also carried looked on street view and have plotted where the CPZ signs are on the map below.
Blue - where I was parked
Red - CPZ signs
Green - the road I entered from (Heather Walk, HA8). I also noted that there is no CPZ sign at the beginning of this road. https://maps.app.goo.gl/YxvgtUBuwz5hGnqh6
Black - the route I took
Does the fact that there is a considerable distance between the one CPZ sign I passed and my parking space make an appeal more likely to succeed?
Thanks
(https://i.imgur.com/DTFWez5.png)
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I would not want to risk the CPZ argument when the sign is as close as it is. Better to argue inbuilt unfairness caused by two methods of signing being illogical. I have a top secret procedural impropriety strategy which is worth a go in this case.
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@mrmustard has an argument about the legality of the CPZ signs, as far as I can tell the relevant traffic order is The Barnet (Free Parking Places, Loading Places and Waiting, Loading and Stopping Restrictions) Consolidation Order 2014 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1KevHAD4buL6CL0O5SkpKswkg7_Vz7OH2) and it doesn't create any controlled parking zones at all, the word "zone" only comes up in reference to pedestrian zones.
But as Incandescent, what route did you take to get there in the first place?
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The sign on the opposite side of the road is irrelevant to your case, because each side of a road is separate from the other side when restrictions are imposed. Of course restrictions can be identical, but often aren't, like here. The reason the other side has a sign is because the restricted hours are different to those on the CPZ signs you see on entry to the zone. Councils are allowed to create CPZ, where the hours on the entry signs define the single-yellow line times, but also put up signs within the zone if they want to vary those times in certain locations. For me it is bad practice, but it is legal.
At the moment, based on your narrative, you seem bang-to-rights. Did you drive past the CPZ sign in your photograph, or come down the other way and turn left ?
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Hi
I was parked on a single yellow line on St Margarets Road, Edgware, HA8 at 10:45am. I returned to my car 5mins later as I had left my phone in the car. Unfortunately I had already received a PCN - I spoke to the Parking Attendant who said that I was parked in a controlled zone with parking restructions between 10-11am.
The opposite side of the road also had a single yellow line with the a yellow sign "No Parking 2-3pm". I had (wrongly) assumed this applied to my side of the road too, as there was no signs on my side of the road.
Do I have any grounds for appeal, or should I pay the £65 fine?
Thank you for your time.
Google Street View
https://maps.app.goo.gl/eZpttphnSjdH1S5w5
Copy of PCN
(https://i.imgur.com/pmLUYzd.jpeg)
Yellow "No Parking 2-3pm" sign in relation to where car was parked
(https://i.imgur.com/JzVB8uY.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ubExpuH.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/r1Y7MeI.jpeg)
CPZ sign - car was parked on road indicated by red arrow
(https://i.imgur.com/Fvgtew1.jpeg)
Google Street View
https://maps.app.goo.gl/eZpttphnSjdH1S5w5