Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ma202345 on November 03, 2023, 05:11:26 pm
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I am a fan of repeating what you said last time (provided it was ok) so let's see it as HCA says.
Important point. You cannot make the representations.
You can write them but they must be in the name of the person whose name is on the Notice to Owner.
Get that wrong and you can be knocked out of the fight.
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You haven't posted your initial reps so it's difficult to put their response into its correct context.
The reason I say this is that your subsequent posts imply a defensive posture whereas you've been told that being away from the vehicle is perfectly acceptable. After all, even their response refers to collecting and delivering in the same breath as loading and unloading from which you will see that it is inevitable that in part these activities must take place away from the vehicle.
Moving furniture and belongings between homes = use of car is essential;
You can't park your car in your bedroom = you have to be away from your vehicle;
You parked as close as possible, having regard to other prevailing on-street restrictions, and live on the 3rd floor of a property X metres away = loading will take time and 7 minutes is perfectly understandable and cannot be questioned by the authority on a rational basis i.e. the objective is to load as quickly as possible cradle to grave, not to make superfluous mini-trips with sub-optimal loads just so as to be 'seen' often at the car.
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Would anyone be able to help or give any advice on how to draft a representation? I need to send this off in the next few days
I've got a statement from my former housemate, so hoping this will help too.
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Hello all,
We've received the Notice To Owner letter, see below:
Notice to Owner Page 1 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5xHgcMOjg3tNpfPa?e=uE9vha)
Notice to Owner Page 2 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5xKxfuWiOrgENotc?e=InJdRS)
My former housemate (where i moved out from in Mirabelle Gardens) said she would be happy for me to draft a statement for her to sign regarding my move out time and date. Is there any other specific info I should draft in this statement for her to look over and sign? I'm hoping this will also help my case.
Also any advice in the next steps would be greatly appreciated
Many Thanks
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Thank you so much for your input, very much appreciated.
I'll wait for the notice to owner and upload it onto the thread once it has been received
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I'm not entirely sure they would think this is sufficient in justifying the 7mins? Do you think i stand a chance
I've represented lost of people in similar circumstances and, where a detailed account of the loading activities taking place has been provided, I've never lost.
I am happy to represent you as well, all you need to do is let us know when you have the notice to owner. The whatsapp messages can obviously be provided as supporting evidence.
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Thanks for the response everyone.
Well, the seven mins I was not physically next to the car loading, I was bringing my furniture & suitcases down from my 3rd floor room to the 2nd floor but couldn't do this earlier as it would've been blocking the use of the kitchen for my housemates and blocking exits (health and safety reasons basically), which is why I had to empty out some of the stuff earlier into the car (before the PCN was given) to make space in the kitchen (like the bikes). Also from the 2nd floor down to the ground floor exit is just a set of stairs with no landing and a door to my housemates room, so I couldn't bring stuff to the door otherwise my housemate and anyone else wouldn't be able to enter or leave the house. There was also a drunk man who took my chair when i was first loading my stuff into the car, whom I had to run after to get it back- unfortunately i didn't take any pics/videos of this (I know there was CCTV but highly doubt I'll be able to get this) which is why i thought it would be safer for me to do it in batches rather than bringing everything down and leaving it outside unattended.
I'm not entirely sure they would think this is sufficient in justifying the 7mins? Do you think i stand a chance
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Your dad will get a notice to owner make sure he knows about it and will forward it to you along with a letter authorising you to act on his behalf.
Post the NTO here and one of us will draft a representation for you, Loading has to be continuous but that does not mean continually putting things in the car, you have to be allowed to be away from the car collecting and the distance you have to travel and what you are carrying will dictate the time away from the car.
Can you justify the 7 minutes?
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PCN looks OK
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Ah here's a photo of the front and the back of the PCN recieved
Picture of PCN (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5nh2sbiYCLZdo6Ms?e=dxscWT)
Picture of PCN 2 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5nkSO_V76VzSBs-G?e=t8Z9MZ)
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PCN= PN36594958
Sorry, we want to see the actual PCN you received onto your car, both sides. It could contain fatal errors of content. Poeple normally post these up as photos taken with their mobile phones.
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PCN= PN36594958
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Why haven't you shown us the PCN ? We need to see it. You can blank out the reg number if you want, but it is not important. We only like names and addresses redacted.
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Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.
Here's the letter from the council which states the rejection of the appeal PCN rejection letter (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5nGLgBnIcazU48It?e=sWLegB)
The vehicle keeper is my dad and it is registered in his name and is up-to-date with his address. Although his address is not my rented accommodation in E20, I don't know if that would impact the claim/evidence.
I'm not sure how to find the response I submitted in the informal appeal but it went along the lines of what I stated in the first post as well as the 'my photos' I attached.
Many Thanks
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The fact is you were loading. This exemption covers all the activities related to the loading, in your case, having to bring your belongings down to the car, secure them in the car, then go back for another load. Clearly you couldn't leave the car unattended without locking it up, whilst you returned for more of your belongings.
Can you please post your reps and their response, which is normally a Fob-Off type of letter. We need to see it.
What you submitted is called an "informal challenge". To take matters further, i.e. stand your ground, you must now wait for the Notice to Owner. Are you the keeper of the vehicles with your name and up-to-date address on your V5 ?
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Hello,
I received A PCN from a CEO having observed my car for 7 mins with no unloading having been observed.
I was moving out of my room in Mirabelle Gardens on the date and time the PCN was given as my tenancy was coming to an end. Unfortunately my tenancy contract does not state this as I moved out earlier than the stated date on the contract, all I have is whatsapp messages to my housemates stating the date i am moving out. I lived on the 3rd floor of the house and therefore had to move my belonging down to the ground floor however could not leave it outside due to people stealing my things. Just before the PCN was given, a drunk man tried to steal my chair which i placed outside, near the car, for loading.
I would like some advice whether this cause is worth pursuing further as I have already appealed once against the council with photos (see attached below) with it being rejected.
CEO PCN photos:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5muuZ3vDkLaAsX5o?e=qDkPwR (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5muuZ3vDkLaAsX5o?e=qDkPwR)
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5muuZ3vDkLaAsX5o?e=TkQftj (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5muuZ3vDkLaAsX5o?e=TkQftj)
number3 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5myytZAnLherIz3E?e=BasGgg)
My photos:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5m79hXRhQ5VG947B?e=ncdN94 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5m79hXRhQ5VG947B?e=ncdN94)
number2 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5m79hXRhQ5VG947B?e=dwpEsV)
number3 (https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnB3NOQxsSmL5m79hXRhQ5VG947B?e=DHy3co)
GSV:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/f1NUMVyjY8sf1RwV6
Many Thanks