Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Fuzuki on October 17, 2025, 02:55:56 pm
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As [Leasing company] are the registered keeper of the vehicle, Penalty Charge Notices (PCN's) will be addressed to us and come to us in the first instance. As legislation requires immediate payment, we will usually pay this on your behalf and then pass this charge on to you by sending an invoice and supporting documents. Please note you will still be able to appeal the PCN.
This is absolutely total tosh and shows either a complete ignorance of the law, or mendacity. I suggest you complain to whoever runs this company, and point out that you cannot appeal a PCN unless it has your name and address on it, and this will only be received if they, ((leasing company), submit representations to the council that they are a leasing company and provide your name and address as the lessee. Point out to them that paying closes the case completely. Ask them if they are so sure of what they say, would they please point you to the regulations that state a PCN must be paid straightaway.
If it were me, I'd end the lease with this load of idiots and find a company that knows the law.
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Nice to see a previously won appeal with similar circumstances. I'll draft a version tomorrow and share but in the meantime just sharing what my lease says about PCN (that's all I could find on both my online and paper agreement):
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/FLmtLcM_xl.png)
The website also had an FAQ stating:
As [Leasing company] are the registered keeper of the vehicle, Penalty Charge Notices (PCN's) will be addressed to us and come to us in the first instance. As legislation requires immediate payment, we will usually pay this on your behalf and then pass this charge on to you by sending an invoice and supporting documents. Please note you will still be able to appeal the PCN.
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So, if paid for sessions are subject to these orders, may I presume that free sessions are not subject to any orders?
Not necessarily as we see adjudicators upholding the council's case that the validity comes first - registering a session regardless of whether it's free or not, but in a lot of these cases only the first hour or hours are free.
I'd say the case in this Croydon car park should be clear cut as per the below.
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Case reference 2250307301
Appellant Terry Pace
Authority London Borough of Havering
VRM GL56EJF
PCN Details
PCN HG34507892
Contravention date 01 Mar 2025
Contravention time 13:55:00
Contravention location Lodge Farm Car Park Main Road
Penalty amount GBP 60.00
Contravention Parked without payment of the parking charge
Referral date -
Decision Date 24 Sep 2025
Adjudicator Mackenzie Robinson
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
1. Reasons This case was due to be decided after a hearing on 24 September 2025. However Mr Pace did not join the hearing, despite being allowed an additional 10 minutes. I therefore decided this case based on the evidence before me.
2. Mr Pace appeals on the basis that the signage stated that parking was free at all times. It was not made adequately clear that a parking session still had to be registered.
3. I find that the precise contravention selected by the civil enforcement officer did not occur. There is no parking charge for parking in this car park. A driver therefore cannot fail to pay the parking charge.
4. When a driver registers a parking session, he obtains a ‘e-ticket’, and displays it on the digital system. The technology may change, but this is no different in reality to obtaining a physical parking ticket and displaying it on the dashboard. The civil enforcement officer is able to inspect the e-ticket on the digital system using his handheld device. Mr Pace therefore failed to display his e-ticket, but that was not the contravention for which the penalty charge notice was issued.
5. I allow this appeal.
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The terms board gives you the gist - 'please send the relevant Croydon Off-Street Traffic Management Order' - and even says it's 'paid for'! If only I could pay for things by saying they are free.
Sadly the lease does often scupper seeing these through so you need to do what John suggests.
(https://i.ibb.co/wZDqvnZj/Screenshot-2025-10-19-at-16-38-54.png)
So, if paid for sessions are subject to these orders, may I presume that free sessions are not subject to any orders?
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The terms board gives you the gist - 'please send the relevant Croydon Off-Street Traffic Management Order' - and even says it's 'paid for'! If only I could pay for things by saying they are free.
Sadly the lease does often scupper seeing these through so you need to do what John suggests.
(https://i.ibb.co/wZDqvnZj/Screenshot-2025-10-19-at-16-38-54.png)
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. . .
However this is a lease car, so the V5C is registered with the lease company. Does that change anything in the appeal process? (It's the first car I don't own outright so unsure of any potential difference!)
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At this stage you can challenge the PCN, but the next step will be the issue of the NtO to the lease company.
How long is the term of your lease agrreement?
Please show us the relevant clause(s) in yr lease agreement aboout the payment of PCNs, fines, etc.
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Hey H C Andersen,
Thanks! Just to clarify, I did not believe that registering after the fact would help - I was just mentioning that my wife did, but fully agreed with your assessment it is unlikely to help.
Really appreciate you taking the time to write this up. This seems sound to me, hopefully that will help once I send the appeal.
However this is a lease car, so the V5C is registered with the lease company. Does that change anything in the appeal process? (It's the first car I don't own outright so unsure of any potential difference!)
Draft a challenge and post here. Include a request for the off-street traffic order.
Will do later tonight, thanks. May I ask what the off-street traffic order is?
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As I said I think the correct contravention is parked without displaying (virtually) a valid ticket - the terms refer to not having a valid parking session.
The alleged contravention did not occur, although we do see adjudicators caving in on this.
Draft a challenge and post here. Include a request for the off-street traffic order.
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OP, I'm not certain how registering after the event - and thereby obtaining 3 hours MORE - helps when the maximum permitted period is 3 hours.
Don't underestimate the authority's resolve to deny that the contravention grounds are wrong by latching on to, as they might see it, a deliberate attempt to park for more than 3 hours i.e. park, don't register, register after any PCN and then claim that registration was made.
IMO, stick to:
1. Contravention did not occur;
2. During an observation time of a maximum of 2 minutes, but probably less, the CEO could form a considered belief that a contravention had occurred.
1. That there is no charge payable to park in the car park for up to 3 hours is unarguable: it's stated clearly on the tariff board i.e. '3 hours free'.
The contravention grounds must therefore be incorrect.
If, as appears to be the case, the CEO thought that registration for 3 hours' free parking had not been made then it follows that the correct description would be 'Parked for longer than permitted' because absent registration the driver is not permitted to park.
The PCN must therefore be cancelled.
2. On the subject of the CEO's belief after no more than 2 minutes, I would refer you to the photos showing service of the PCN and the tariff board. The former is timed at 11.47.30, the latter 11.48.38, an elapsed period of 1 minute 8 seconds. It will not escape the authority's attention that if the CEO took more than 1 minute to walk to the tariff board simply to photograph it then it would take a driver at least twice this time and more likely 5-6 minutes to walk to the board, read its contents thoroughly, see if they had the wherewithal, in this case a smart phone, download an app(often problematic), read and understand its conditions, particular the need to enter correct VRM and location number and then comply. To this must be added the time the system takes to be updated by the app.
2 minutes is wholly inadequate and therefore the PCN must be cancelled on the grounds that the 'penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of tbe case'.
OP, I've deliberately made this two points because they won't want to acknowledge the former and therefore could save face by acknowledging the second.
Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
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The terms suggest the correct contravention is not having a valid ticket.
Can you actually pay a charge here or is it limited to 3 hours free.
No you can't pay a charge. You can only use Ringgo (or apparently call) to get 3 free hours, starting from the time you "buy".
It seems obvious from the car park conditions board, namely three hours free, maximum stay three hours. SO the only reason to "buy" a ticket, is to check people only stay for 3 hours or less. Of course it is not totally free because in order to "buy" a ticket, one has to use Ringo and pay their 20p fee.
There's actually no fee when using Ringgo in this car park!
This is an example of the app summary of a session:
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/cjpgiC8_xl.png)
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It seems obvious from the car park conditions board, namely three hours free, maximum stay three hours. SO the only reason to "buy" a ticket, is to check people only stay for 3 hours or less. Of course it is not totally free because in order to "buy" a ticket, one has to use Ringo and pay their 20p fee.
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The terms suggest the correct contravention is not having a valid ticket.
Can you actually pay a charge here or is it limited to 3 hours free.
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Here is the board:
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/mQsTS9i_xl.jpg)
Note that when taking a ticket on Ringgo it doesn't allow you to backdate, the 3 hours always start from the moment you take the ticket. There's no machine to obtain a ticket from, only Ringgo.
Based off the T&C's it sounds like I might not have good grounds for appeal? Except if the contravention code is indeed incorrect due to the payment wording?
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Oh, I see - that would mean that even if I got the ticket after the PCN, it would be valid for the time of the PCN (depending on the T&C's I guess).
I'll be back there tomorrow, I'll take a picture and report back! Thank you.
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What I meant is that the gap between the PCN and the live session is well within the free 3 hours.
I would help to get a close up of the terms board if you're going back.
I can't find the off-street order but it may refer just to having to hold a valid ticket which would suggest a different contravention.
(https://i.ibb.co/27KjdLVy/cr2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/8LYRwZGp/cr1.jpg)
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Thanks for your answer.
"As a session was taken out the missing time was not chargeable"
Could you explain what you mean here, sorry? I'm not sure to understand it correctly.
But if my understanding is correct, the appeal would be that I can't be fined under a code noting "parked without payment of parking charge" due to the fact there's no charge, right?
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You can't pay a free charge. As a session was taken out the missing time was not chargeable and you can have a go at the contravention being a nonsense.
Forget observation time - would only apply if there was anything to observe.
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Hello,
My wife recently visited the Lloyd Park Car Park in Croydon and totally forgot to use Ringgo to 'pay' for the 3 hours free parking. When she came back to the car, she had a Penalty Charge Notice issued with code 73 'parked without payment of the parking charge'. As she was staying longer for food at the café, she got worried she could get a second one so immediately registered the parking on Ringgo (at 12:33), PCN was issued at 11:46.
See images below:
Front:
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/8ZPn6OU_xl.jpg)
Back:
(https://cdn.imgpile.com/f/gvUasnm_xl.jpg)
Obviously we did not pay the free parking charge on time, but what I was wondering is whether there's any grounds to appeal due to the observation time being only a single minute? I searched online a bit and it does seem that in most cases it should be at least 2 minutes if I'm understanding correctly, but I am not 100% sure. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks.