Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: zen419 on September 28, 2025, 09:32:47 pm

Title: Re: TWO(!) Bus gate PCNs on Arundel Gate, Sheffield
Post by: Phantomcrusader on September 29, 2025, 02:33:34 pm
They accuse you of being in a bus lane.

This (https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Sheffield/FD01B.pdf) is the 1991 parent order that regulates their bus lanes. Note that the definition of bus lane refers to areas of carriageway listed in schedule 1 and 2.
This (https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Sheffield/BP-Consolidation-1991-Amd-80.pdf) order amends the 1991 parent order. Note that it adds the Arundel Gate bus gate to schedule 3 of the 1991 parent order. According to their own definitions, Arundel Gate bus gate is not a “bus lane” since it is not an area of carriageway listed in either schedule 1 or 2 of the 1991 parent order and so the alleged contraventions did not occur.
Title: Re: TWO(!) Bus gate PCNs on Arundel Gate, Sheffield
Post by: Incandescent on September 28, 2025, 11:58:40 pm
Submit representations for the two of them together, pointing out that the first PCN was received after the date of the second PCN. You were unaware of the bus gate until the first PCN arrived, so consider the penalty of two PCNs is disproportionate.  Also point out that the video does not show you passing a Bus Gate sign.

We really do need to see the actual signs to consider whether the alleged contravention is correct or not. There is no Bus Gate in the legislation, only Bus Lanes, so the correct contravention could be for proceeding along a street restricted to certain classes of traffic (or somesuch). Others on here know the exact wording !  In fact there is a thread running on this exact issue at the moment.
Title: TWO(!) Bus gate PCNs on Arundel Gate, Sheffield
Post by: zen419 on September 28, 2025, 09:32:47 pm
Hi, I'd be grateful for advice on whether there are any grounds for me appealing Penalty Charge Notices for two alleged bus gate contraventions on Arundel Gate in Sheffield City Centre. They happened on successive days (19th & 20th Sept 2025).

I've attached the front pages of both, and the rear page of one (the other is identical).

Evidently I completely missed the bus gate on the first occasion (mea culpa). On the second occasion I didn't spot any street signage, but did see 'Bus Gate' painted on the road - unfortunately, too late to take action.

I can see the painted Bus Gate sign on Google Maps (Arundel Gate northbound, near the Novotel and St Paul's Place).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Novotel+Sheffield+Centre/@53.378994,-1.4675609,74m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!3m8!1s0x487982824d8298ab:0x23177a4912360526!5m2!4m1!1i2!8m2!3d53.3793956!4d-1.4677916!16s%2Fg%2F1tddx8w8?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkyNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Novotel+Sheffield+Centre/@53.378994,-1.4675609,74m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m9!3m8!1s0x487982824d8298ab:0x23177a4912360526!5m2!4m1!1i2!8m2!3d53.3793956!4d-1.4677916!16s%2Fg%2F1tddx8w8?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkyNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D)

However, Google Street View isn't as up-to-date, so I can't see what street signage I may have missed. I found a thread on this website which suggested that signage improvements were planned in 2023, but I don't know if they happened or what they are. https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/sheffield-bus-gate/msg9915/#msg9915 (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/sheffield-bus-gate/msg9915/#msg9915)

I guess my questions are:

1) I've received 2x "Bus Lane Penalty Charge Notices" but my alleged offenses involved bus gates (not bus lanes). Are they treated as the same thing? I found a June 2025 article where someone won an appeal against Sheffield Council on exactly this point. However, it's not clear if his success was because the law was on his side, or because the Council failed to attend the court hearing. https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/arundel-gate-sheffield-driver-wins-legal-challenge-over-controversial-ps2m-a-year-bus-gate-5175846 (https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/arundel-gate-sheffield-driver-wins-legal-challenge-over-controversial-ps2m-a-year-bus-gate-5175846)

2) can anyone tell me what the post-2023 street signage looks like? Is there any reason to believe it doesn't meet the required standards?

3) based solely on Google Maps, I believe I had no options to take avoiding action (turn into a side road or do a U-turn, due to hatching) once I reached 'Bus Gate' painted on the road. Is that grounds for appeal? I read once that offenders who only drove a few yards past a Bus Gate sign could be cleared if they made a genuine attempt to correct their mistake. However, this may be an urban myth.

4) As I received 2 PCN's on successive days, can I appeal against the 2nd on the grounds that I didn't receive timely notice of the 1st infringement? Or is there some other 2-for-1 protocol? It seems a little unfair to be fined twice, but I doubt the Council would agree.

I doubt it's relevant, but I was actually born in Sheffield. I left 50 years ago, and visit very occasionally. While I know the street layout, I find it hard to adjust to newly created pedestrian zones, bus lanes, etc - they seem to change every year!  >:(

Btw, when I registered a new account to join this forum, my welcome email ended up in Spam. Hopefully ftla.uk isn't being flagged as a spam generator. Something for the admins to look into?

https://imgur.com/BY4GkeM
https://imgur.com/7aqfTFu
https://imgur.com/v2ClFMu