Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 12:30:21 pm

Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on November 12, 2025, 11:54:39 am
I just went back on ANPR website and the final demand notice PCN shows as cancelled and no longer available.

Dont know their arse from their elbow.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: b789 on November 12, 2025, 11:36:24 am
I have recieved a final demand for payment on one of these PCN's, however it was one POPLA dismissed. Do i need to do anything with it?

If it is the one that POPLA dismissed, then just ignore it. You only need to respond if they issue a Letter of Claim (LoC). Otherwise, don't waste your time and energy on responding.

If they do issue an LoC, I'd let them issue the claim and then go for summary judgment with fixed costs of £750 plus the application costs too. That's if you want. seriously hurt the idiots. Otherwise, you could just point out their error and see if they back off.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on November 12, 2025, 10:50:39 am
Sorry i forgot to add, i didn't know if i should call them or not, will await your advice.

For background, they didnt submit evidence so Popla upheld my appeal. I am waiting for the other to come in which bizarrely, they have submitted evidence for.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on November 12, 2025, 10:26:28 am
I have recieved a final demand for payment on one of these PCN's, however it was one POPLA dismissed. Do i need to do anything with it?
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on October 23, 2025, 12:43:48 pm
A win is a win! Well done.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 23, 2025, 10:00:18 am
*UPDATE*

Due to ANPR365 not entering any evidence, POPLA have advised my appeal has been successful. This was lodged with them on the 1st October.

Thanks for everyones help so far, i await the 2nd appeal now.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: b789 on October 21, 2025, 05:33:03 pm
In which case, the operator has 21 days in which to submit any evidence they intend to rely on. If the operator fails to submit evidence within this window, POPLA will proceed to assess the appeal based solely on the motorist’s submission. This often results in the appeal being upheld due to lack of rebuttal.

POPLA does not allow extensions for operators unless there are exceptional circumstances. Once evidence is uploaded, the motorist is notified and given a chance to comment before the assessor makes a decision. The operator cannot submit new evidence after the deadline unless POPLA explicitly allows it.

It's all here:

https://www.popla.co.uk/faqs
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on October 21, 2025, 04:21:02 pm
POPLA is backlogged. It can take 8 weeks or more to get a response.
The query was relating to ANPR365's deadline to upload evidence in support of their case, rather than how long POPLA themselves will take to assess the case
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: b789 on October 21, 2025, 03:59:48 pm
POPLA is backlogged. It can take 8 weeks or more to get a response. Just be patient.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 01:21:21 pm
Worth logging onto the POPLA portal and checking they haven't in fact uploaded anything, if you haven't already.

I have been regularly and so far, nothing.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 01:20:52 pm
So i guess the saying "no news is good news" could potentially be the case here; watch that come back to bite me on the backside!
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on October 21, 2025, 01:19:54 pm
Worth logging onto the POPLA portal and checking they haven't in fact uploaded anything, if you haven't already.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: InterCity125 on October 21, 2025, 01:17:35 pm
Also, i just noticed that i submitted the appeal to POPLA for the 1st issue on the 1st October, with today being the 21st, are the Parking Operators not supposed to have submitted evidence by today?

Yes, but, unsurprisingly, the parking operators have piles of appeal evidence to provide on a daily basis. They could well have looked at yours and realised that it's a dead duck - so they press on with the next case rather than wasting time on a case which they know they are going to lose.

Loads of cases go against the parking companies because they provide no evidence to POPLA.

Also note that POPLA won't comment on non compliance with PoFA if the operator provides no evidence.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 12:17:31 pm
Also, i just noticed that i submitted the appeal to POPLA for the 1st issue on the 1st October, with today being the 21st, are the Parking Operators not supposed to have submitted evidence by today?
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 11:40:13 am
See Reply #26 above

Yeah i was just wanting someone to run their eye over what i have typed out before i hit enter on the POPLA website thats all, i am sure it is but never hurts to get a second opinion
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: jfollows on October 21, 2025, 11:36:42 am
See Reply #26 above
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 11:35:41 am
Sprry, can i just check i have my dates correct:

The alleged contravention date was 09/09/2025. The relevant period therefore ran from 10/09/2025 to 23/09/2025 inclusive. The NtK is dated 23/09/2025 and, even giving ANPR365 the benefit of the postal presumption, would be deemed “given” on 25/09/2025 (two working days after posting). That is 2 days after the last day of the relevant period and 16 days after the alleged contravention.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 11:20:03 am
Thanks all, will get that sent today.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: jfollows on October 21, 2025, 11:18:00 am
Date of event: 9/9
Date of posting: 23/9
Deemed delivered: 25/9

The “deemed” delivery day, 2 business days after posting, is the important one. Yes, it actually arrived a day later, but for the purposes here this is not important.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: InterCity125 on October 21, 2025, 11:11:06 am
+2 days for postage safely takes it out of time for keeper liability.

The math is black and white - it either is or it isn't - there's no grey area.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 11:04:29 am
Arent the date of alledged contravention and the date posted a little tight for that? From the above answers i can see the 14 days runs from day after the event, so 10th, for 14 days taking it to the 24th. It was sent on the 23rd and i know we recieved them on the 26th but do you think its still ok to use that as a defence?
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: jfollows on October 21, 2025, 10:58:31 am
Yes
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 21, 2025, 10:49:29 am
Hi all,

So the 2nd appeal was also rejected, they state it was issued correctly and for the reasons they maintained originally. Do i appeal to POPLA with the same template as above?

Original letter as below

https://postimg.cc/R3v6xsF8

Still waiting for POPLA to respond to the first appeal too.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 01, 2025, 05:06:45 pm
Thanks, i will do it now.

I will update the second PCN when i recieve the outcome of that one also.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on October 01, 2025, 05:04:56 pm
Do it online. Choose 'Other' for reason for appeal.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 01, 2025, 05:02:03 pm
Thats great, can i just check, do i send this to POPLA via mail or is this best done online? Didnt know if there was a preferred manner.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: b789 on October 01, 2025, 04:45:52 pm
I'd submit this single point POPLA appeal:

Quote
POPLA Verification Code: [POPLA code]
Operator: ANPR365
PCN: [reference]
Site: Lacon Arms Car Park, Hemsby, Sea View Road, Great Yarmouth
Date of alleged contravention: 14/08/2025
Date of Notice to Keeper (NtK): 23/09/2025

I am the registered keeper. I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm and I decline to do so.

Single ground of appeal: NtK not “given” within the relevant period under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)

This was a postal NtK with no Notice to Driver on the vehicle. Therefore, PoFA Schedule 4 paragraph 9 applies. Paragraph 9(4) requires the NtK to be delivered to the keeper “within the relevant period.” Paragraph 9(5) defines the “relevant period” as 14 days beginning with the day after the specified period of parking. Paragraph 9(6) provides that a notice sent by post is to be presumed “given” on the second working day after posting.

The alleged contravention date was 14/08/2025. The relevant period therefore ran from 15/08/2025 to 28/08/2025 inclusive. The NtK is dated 23/09/2025 and, even giving ANPR365 the benefit of the postal presumption, would be deemed “given” on 25/09/2025 (two working days after posting). That is 28 days after the last day of the relevant period and 42 days after the alleged contravention. Accordingly, the NtK was not “given” within the relevant period and PoFA keeper liability cannot arise.

Driver not identified, so the keeper cannot be pursued
I am the keeper and I have not been identified as the driver. There can be no presumption or inference that the Keeper is the driver. This is confirmed in the persuasive appellate case law in VCS v Edward (2023) where the judge confirmed that without evidence, there can be no inference.

POPLA must allow the appeal on this single ground.

Legal references
PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, paragraphs 9(4), 9(5) and 9(6).
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 01, 2025, 01:02:37 pm
Thanks, they rejected the one back from August so far (see attachments) just waiting to hear re September but likely to be the exact same


https://postimg.cc/0z5CGhqS

https://postimg.cc/MvpDVhwp

Sounds like they just ignored everything i said?
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on October 01, 2025, 12:55:57 pm
Off to POPLA it is... I can help draft something but to do so, could you please re-upload the original notices you put up with Imgur? (Sorry I know it's a faff, we didn't anticipate Imgur shutting off UK access)
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on October 01, 2025, 12:36:00 pm
Ok so the appeal was rejected - what can i use to show the response as IMGUR no longer available in the UK?

***edit  - think this should work***

(https://postimg.cc/KRn7hJJ2)

https://postimg.cc/KRn7hJJ2
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 05:05:00 pm
OP, you need to get your head around what you think the "14 day rule" is.

The parking firm have no idea of the drivers identity unless the Keeper who has received the Notice, blabs it to them. Only the driver can be liable of the charge.

Where the "14 day rules" comes in, is if the parking firm want to try and hold the known Keeper liable for the breach of contract by the unknown (to them) driver. In order for them to be able to transfer the liability from the union driver to the known Keeper, they have to fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012.

One of those requirements is that if they have issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK), as in this case, that NtK must be delivered (given) to the Keeper within 14 days of the alleged contravention. They are required to allow two working days for delivery from the date the NtK is issued.

If the NtK was issued too late for it to have been given (deemed, not actual), then that is one of the requirement of PoFA they have failed to comply with and so they cannot rely on PoFA to be able to hold the known Keeper liable for the alleged debt owed by the unknown driver.

However, there are many more PoFA requirements they need to  comply with and the "14 day rule" is just one of them. In this case, they have failed others too.

A PCN cannot just be mostly or even substantially compliant with PoFA. It is a binary matter. It either is or it isn't. Just like someone can't be mostly or even substantially pregnant. They either are or they aren't. Simples.

We have gone for the original appeal via their website. I'm sure they'll take the maximum 28 days to reply

Thanks all for you help this far, been great.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on September 26, 2025, 04:18:29 pm
Just like someone can't be mostly or even substantially pregnant.
I've felt substantially pregnant after a large meal sometimes.

Jimbob - your daughter should send the appeals, she can use the same wording for each one. If they reject, it's because they're stubborn, not because your appeal isn't valid. If they do reject, then we can advise you on POPLA appeals that will be as close to a 'slam dunk win' as it's possible to get.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2025, 04:03:50 pm
OP, you need to get your head around what you think the "14 day rule" is.

The parking firm have no idea of the drivers identity unless the Keeper who has received the Notice, blabs it to them. Only the driver can be liable of the charge.

Where the "14 day rules" comes in, is if the parking firm want to try and hold the known Keeper liable for the breach of contract by the unknown (to them) driver. In order for them to be able to transfer the liability from the union driver to the known Keeper, they have to fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012.

One of those requirements is that if they have issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as a postal Notice to Keeper (NtK), as in this case, that NtK must be delivered (given) to the Keeper within 14 days of the alleged contravention. They are required to allow two working days for delivery from the date the NtK is issued.

If the NtK was issued too late for it to have been given (deemed, not actual), then that is one of the requirement of PoFA they have failed to comply with and so they cannot rely on PoFA to be able to hold the known Keeper liable for the alleged debt owed by the unknown driver.

However, there are many more PoFA requirements they need to  comply with and the "14 day rule" is just one of them. In this case, they have failed others too.

A PCN cannot just be mostly or even substantially compliant with PoFA. It is a binary matter. It either is or it isn't. Just like someone can't be mostly or even substantially pregnant. They either are or they aren't. Simples.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on September 26, 2025, 02:13:53 pm
The notices needed to be delivered within 14 days. Neither was. The appeal I suggested is valid. Send them and advise on what they respond with.

Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 02:01:42 pm
So on this occasion it's not something we can use? Hopefully the first solution will be enough.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: jfollows on September 26, 2025, 01:59:15 pm
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4 states:
Quote
(4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.
This is applicable if the liability from the unknown driver is to be transferred to the registered keeper.
If the driver is identified, then they can be taken to court for breach of contract for six years following the date of the alleged transgression.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 01:52:09 pm
Thanks for your help, are they likely to dig their heels in? is the 14 day rule still a thing (when they have to send out notices within that period?)
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on September 26, 2025, 01:43:27 pm
Bingo.

They may well reject her appeals out of stubbornness but if they do we can help with POPLA appeals that ought to succeed.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 01:35:19 pm
I assume she also just highlights "KEEPER" on the below form:

https://imgur.com/a/KBCyXmR

then in the appeal we will add the paragraph as you mention.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on September 26, 2025, 01:33:50 pm
Online is better (it's free after all), just mind out for any sneaky tick boxes etc. that would trick her into revealing who was driving.

The back of the notice provides details on where/how to appeal.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 01:30:51 pm
Correct, she is the keeper and its addressed to her, so we will go down the route as you advised below.

Anything else we need to do? Is it best to do this via post, although i cannot see that there is a postal address?
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on September 26, 2025, 01:25:31 pm
Fixed them for you.

Are we correct to assume that your daughter is the registered keeper of the vehicle, and that the notices are addressed to her? If so, she can appeal in her capacity as the keeper, not revealing who was driving, with the below. If not, tell us who the notices are addressed to.

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,


If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not respond within 28 days, chase them.

She will need to submit a separate appeal for each charge.
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 01:13:12 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/wshmbX8.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hVdqwh0.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YLXAWey.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OSgVDcW.jpeg)

Im not sure i have done this correctly, please can you take a look and see if you have all you need?

Regards
Title: Re: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: DWMB2 on September 26, 2025, 12:47:55 pm
To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: ANPR365 PCN – REG NOT ENTERED IN PUB – THE LACONS ARMS HEMSBY
Post by: Jimbob1976 on September 26, 2025, 12:30:21 pm
Morning

My new driver daughter got caught out twice at same place, she used the pubs car park to get food from a business that is on the same grounds and didnt realise she needed to register in the pub. 2 x £100 PCN issued.

The first one was fom the 14th August - can this be contested on the more than 14 days rule?

Second from the 9th September.

She used the pub on both occassions too but paid in cash so no records of receipts.

Is there anything she can do here?

If you need anything more just ask and i'll try and get whatever is required