Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: cferg on October 30, 2023, 11:40:30 am
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Yeah understood. That sucks. I'm not sure, I've not gone back to check the signage - I'll go back and check tomorrow or Saturday. Is there anything in specific I should look for?
But thanks again for the advise, lesson learnt - I'll make sure to confirm I've got my ticket next time!
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I think the most positive thing from the pack was the proof of postage letters and the fact one wasn't included for the appeal rejection?
(If that is a proof of postage, but that's what it seems to be to me)
I'm not sure it's of much substantive benefit, especially if (as seems possible), you have provided the wrong postcode, as there's a good chance it would not have been received either way.
I certainly wouldn't be going to court on the basis of an incorrect postcode that you accept may have been an error on your part. Additionally, the original notice says the discount is available for 14 days - it says nothing about them extending this if your appeal is unsuccessful. It seems they did this anyway, but they could argue this was a gesture of goodwill, and you've no 'right' in law to goodwill. And finally, even if you did go to court and the judge agreed the charge should be £60, by the time you'd paid the court fee and legal rep's fee it'd probably be more like £145 anyway.
Nothing you've posted so far seems to suggest much of a defence, unless there's anything helpful in the signage?
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I see what you're saying. I can't be 100% certain, as I use the auto fill so yeah, defo a possibility.
I did receive a letter from the debt collectors though, with the incorrect postcode, but I guess that won't mean much?
I think the most positive thing from the pack was the proof of postage letters and the fact one wasn't included for the appeal rejection?
(If that is a proof of postage, but that's what it seems to be to me)
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I thought it might be... How sure are you that you entered the correct postcode when you appealed?
All of the information in the SAR, including an apparent copy of your submissions, includes the wrong postcode, which to the casual observer would suggest you provided the wrong one.
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It's the worthing postcode - but the first line of address and town is my newer one in Hove
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What postcode is on the appeal on P.16?
Please answer this
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Negative - it ends 'GJ' - realised it wasn't on there and should have clarified!
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So the Hove postcode does not end in "JG"?
What postcode is on the appeal on P.16?
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Sorry -
1 - Yes that's correct - only the notice was sent to the worthing address.
2 - No - Everything else sent since the notice has been sent to the Hove address (including the appeal) - but the worthing postcode was used. I can reupload to uncensor the town for all the letters they've sent if that helps
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So, to clarify:
- Your DVLA address at the time was in Worthing, and the last 2 characters in that postcode are "JG"?
- Your current address, that you provided them in your appeal, in in Worthing, and the last two characters of that postcode are also "JG"?
If the answer to Q2 is 'no', then what address is shown on the appeal on page 16?
If you're trying to negotiate payment, I'm struggling to see a scenario where you end up paying just £60. You can make an offer to the parking company to settle for £60, but if they decline, your options are to negotiate upwards, or go to court, where even if the judge agreed it should have been £60, it'll cost more than that with the limited fees for the case.
All of the above is assuming you don't run a defence against the whole charge, although so far we haven't seen much that would suggest a good one.
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I've attached the SAR request here as it contains all the letters within. I've redacted all the personal data so none should be there. on the second page, i've left the town and the last 2 letters of the postcode (which are the same) nothing within the pack has my postcode. I can't get back onto the webpage where i appealed to check the details I've left as it's not available.
It should be in chronological order from bottom to top - bottom being the initial notice.
Thanks again
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Just to check a couple of things, can you show us:
- The original parking charge notice (both pages)
- The response they claim to have sent (included in your SAR), including any dates on there
Also, just to check, your SAR should include a copy of the appeal you submitted, have you checked that you definitely provided the correct postcode in there?
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A case to pay the £60 i would have been eligible for had i received the appeal rejection letter?
Surely i have some right given the fact i was never informed of the decision of my appeal or they could charge me anything?
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Does anyone know a good legal advisor / solicitor (someone who i could speak to over the phone preferably? (Cheaper the better)
I don't personally know any. It's not an area many solicitors will be likely to have much expertise in (beyond expertise in contract law, which applies to this of course), as it's comparatively rare for people to instruct them on private parking matters, due to the usually small amounts of money at stake.
I'd be surprised if you found one that charged less than the cost of the charge as it currently stands.
As Hcandersen asks, what's your aim here, to negotiate a settlement or defend the claim?
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and think i have a strong enough case?
As others have referred...a case for what?
Complaint to GXS's Accredited Trade Association, probably.
Perhaps the ICO.
But not the court which is the next procedural step. The court is only interested in the law as it applies to contracts and judicial procedure which IMO the other issues are not.
What is your end game e.g. pay the parking charge, at whatever level, defend their action in court etc?
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Afternoon all,
So quick update - they've responded to my further DPA request but not included everything i requested which is fine. But just going through the docs again, i note that they've provided 2 proof of postages for the initial notice and for the letter charging me £160 threatening debt collectors. They've provided me with no proof of postage for the rejection of my appeal and no e-mails either which looks like a bit of a win for me?
The response they've given to me suggest they never read the issue i raised and seem to think i'm disputing the ticket (which i'm not - the issue is the payment amount and no response to my appeal).
I've attached an excerpt of the response at the top of the SAR - which i have 2 issues with:
1 - All the letters they supposedly sent following the initial notification uses the address i provided on the appeals website, however they put down the wrong postcode. So either they're downright lying or just ignorant
2 - all the of the PCNs were delivered correctly with the details obtained through the DVLA - again, this was never an issue, it was all the correspondence following my appeal which i never received.
Not that this may mean anything, but it annoyed me and i wanted to moan about it!
I've called the debt recovery agency to update the postcode, as i can't get a hold of GxS. They've told me the case is now with BW Legal. I've not received anything from them so far. Not sure what avenues are available to me now. I've submitted a complaint to the IPA, but think i should maybe speak to a legal advisor regarding this situation. I have all the letters, e-mails thus far, and think i have a strong enough case? Does anyone know a good legal advisor / solicitor (someone who i could speak to over the phone preferably? (Cheaper the better) :)
Thanks again for your help thus far
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Thanks for the advice. I'm gonna send another data request to them and include the offer in the text. I'll see how at it goes. I may have to just concede and pay the 170 but worth a shot as you say.
Thanks again for the help and advice.
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So i should have received e-mails as well?
You should have received all personal data they hold on you - so in theory yes. You can complain about this if you're so minded, although it doesn't on its own affect your liability for any parking charges.
I'm not sure how to proceed from here. Should i make a payment of £100 previously suggested? Or would i have a case to have that reduced to £60 which i would have been able to do had i received the letter in time. Any advice appreciated.
If you're looking to make any 'Without prejudice save as to costs' offers then you can offer whatever you like - they're unlikely to accept £60, but there's probably little to lose by trying and then upping to £100 if they refuse.
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Hey guys,
Thanks again for the responses. So i received a pretty quick response RE my data request and they've sent me a pack. They haven't included any e-mails within which i requested. The wording to my request was 'I am looking for any e-mails, letters and any other correspondence that has been sent/stored using my name, vehicle registration and address'. So i should have received e-mails as well?
The DPA response e-mail lead with the following statement:
'Further to your request for a Subject Access Request, I have attached the report, please note that the address
including Post Code have been supplied by DVLA, if the information is incorrect, the onus is on you to ensure
DVLA have the correct details on record.'
The data request form they sent afterwards however shows that they have 2 sources for my details - initial details taken from DVLA website, and the second batch (which includes my e-mail address and contact number) from the appeals website. This has recorded the correct first line and town, but the post code is incorrect. Someone at some point has clearly noticed the post code was faulty and amended it, as i have received a letter which has the postcode crossed off and the correct one written down next to it on the letter paper.
I've had no texts/e-mails from them to say that my appeal was unsuccessful and they haven't provided any from the data request.
I'm not sure how to proceed from here. Should i make a payment of £100 previously suggested? Or would i have a case to have that reduced to £60 which i would have been able to do had i received the letter in time. Any advice appreciated.
Happy to upload redacted docs if this is more helpful and I've missed anything
Thanks again guys
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If you're minded to pay, you could at least make an offer to pay the charge (£100) without the added debt collector fees. These extra £70 fees are often dismissed by judges in court even when the claimant wins, as they are considered double recovery, so you could point this out. It might not work, but may well do, as it's probably far better for GXS financially to take £100 than to go to court.
If you are making an offer, mark the letter as "Without prejudice save as to costs".
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Thanks for the advice - I've send one to that e-mail. Would it be worth me waiting around a month for a response? Or would i be better off just paying the £170? I'm not sure if they'll try to increase it again or issue proceedings? And wouldn't like the CCJ as saving to buy a flat!
Thanks again
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I couldn't see any info about DPA requests - tried calling their contact number over a number of days but no joy getting through at all.
Their Privacy Policy lists dataprotection@gx-s.uk (dataprotection@gx-s.uk)
Don't phone parking companies - they're not interested in any conversation that doesn't involve payment, and aren't the sort of companies you want to share your phone number with.
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Ah - I'll do that ASAP, thanks for the heads up.
No, I don't have any evidence at all, but thought i'd try my luck. The main issue is exactly that - if i'd received the initial rejection of appeal letter i would have still been in time to pay the £60 which i guess there's no chance of now - but the £170 seems completely unfair.
I used the info@gx-s.uk - as this is the one that responded to my e-mail on 24/10/2023, I couldn't see any info about DPA requests - tried calling their contact number over a number of days but no joy getting through at all.
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The same day i also changed my the address of my driving license to match where i'm currently living.
As an aside, your driving licence has nothing to do with this matter. The important address is the one on your car's V5C document - you need to update this separately to your driving licence. If you haven't already, do this ASAP to prevent this happening again.
Chronology is clear. In terms of the actual parking charge - other than any procedural angles, do you have any sort of defence, or are you just trying to find a way to pay £100 rather than £170?
Also the ICO is the information commissioners office - the .gov website for anything DPA related - they have a tool you can use to send DPA requests directly to organisations holding your data through their site.
All clear - I know who the ICO are, I was just checking you hadn't sent them a SAR rather than GXS, I wasn't aware of the tool on their website. In terms of GXS, what email did you use?
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Apologies for the confusion.
So i the breach was on 02/09/2023 and the letter was sent 05/09/2023 to an address i was not currently residing at (my fault i know) so the first letter was addressed to there. There were also 2 other appeals accompanying these which i have successfully appealed and no further action will be taken.
I appealed through their website and filled in my address via there. This was on the 17/09/2023. The same day i also changed my the address of my driving license to match where i'm currently living.
I received a letter on the 24th of October (cannot remember the exact date it came) advising me debt collectors would be arranged within 7 days of the letter takeover should i not make the payment within 7 days. The letter was dated 13/10/2023. This letter had used the post code of my previous address, and not the post code for my new one. The letter paper had crossed out the incorrect postcode over the plastic film, and the correct postcode was handwritten just below the film. I can provide a photo if necessary?
I sent an e-mail to GxS on the 24th October stating that i had not received any response to my initial appeal. They responded on the 25th and attached the letter that was sent. I only saw this e-mail today as again it went straight to my junk (my fault for not checking junk folder). The letter attached to the e-mail had again used the post code for my old address and was dated 21/09/2023.
Date of incident 02/09/2023
Date invoice sent 05/09/2023
Appeal 17/09/2023
Debt collection letter w/ incorrect post code send 13/10/2023
Debt collection letter received by me 24/10/2023
e-mail send to GxS re no response 24/10/2023
response from GxS sent to junk 25/10/2023
Letter attached from GxS notifying me of failed appeal dated as (wrong postcode) 21/09/2023
I hope that clears up the chronology?
Also the ICO is the information commissioners office - the .gov website for anything DPA related - they have a tool you can use to send DPA requests directly to organisations holding your data through their site.
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i've just sent a request via the ICO website
Your Subject Access Request needs to go to the parking company, what do you mean by this?
I'm struggling to see from your posts how the parking company and/or debt collectors have acquired your new address. Did you give it to them?
It would be useful for you to list (chronologically) exactly what you have received from whom, and what you have sent in response.
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Thanks for the response, i've just sent a request via the ICO website which has advised a month wait. Are they likely to issue proceedings in this time? Unfortunately I've already contacted the debt collectors agency prior to this post, and asked to be put in touch with the companies solicitors :/
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An off the wall reply.
Contact the Data Protection officer at the parking company for a subject access request. include vehicle registration; parking ticket number new and old address at the time of the infringement.
When you receive the pack contact them with their evidence of the mistaken address which denied you the opportunity to settle before debt collection people were involved and offer to settle for the original parking charge.
EDIT to add:
do not contact the debt company.
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Hey guys just after some advice re a parking invoice.
I got a ticket on 02/09/2023. Date invoice was sent was on 05/09/2023 and i appealed on the 16/09/2023. I then received no response until i received a follow up letter on 15/10/2023 stating that debt collectors had been involved. I contacted the parking agency via e-mail and received a response on 25/10/2023 which went to my junk folder.
The e-mail contained the letter they supposedly sent out, which i never received. The postcode on the letter for my address was wrong - so not sure whether they sent it via e-mail (which went to junk and got deleted) or address - however as it was attached as a pdf i assume it was a letter sent out.
I contacted the debt collection agency who have advised i have to pay £170 now. I've seen mixed things online about what i can currently do, my appeal wasn't strong but had i received the letter i'd have just forked up the £60.
I moved address shortly before i received the initial invoice letters, so they were sent to the previous address (my fault i know, but i still appealed within 14 days) - but the letters i have since received from the company have recorded my postcode incorrectly - the only reason i received the letter from the company re debt collectors is because someone had scribbled out the incorrect post code and written the correct one on the front of the letter paper. Do I have any chance at paying the reduced fee? I'm not blaming the company for issuing the ticket as i took a chance - however as they've recorded the address wrong and i hadn't received any response i now have to pay £170 instead of the £60.
I've asked to be put into contact with the companies solicitors, but just wanted to know if anyone had anything similar happen to them/advice?
I think i've covered everything but if any extra details are needed please ask, thanks
TLDR: Received no response to my initial appeal for a parking ticket now i'm being chased by debt collectors