Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: PetefromBrum on September 23, 2025, 09:10:04 am
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I still feel agrieved that the primary photo they used as evidence...
That may be so, But since the police have no obligation to provide any photographs at all and any they do provide are not "evidence" but merely a courtesy, I don't think they will be too interested.
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I thought you were still at the waiting to reply to the NIP
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I went to check on what speed limits are in force at the location and found that the 30mph LTO was in place. Whilst I don't condone my speed at the location, I still feel agrieved that the primary photo they used as evidence showed a description of 41mph in a 40mph limit and that the place where the CTO operative was supposedly positioned was only 50m inside the new limit, which commenced where the 40mph repeaters were in the GSV mentioned earlier. I have just accepted the offer made but await with interest the CTO comment about the text on their picture.
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That is the main reason why I want to go to the location again, to see if those proposals have been implemented yet.
Of course. You could also contact the council for any relevant TRO's.
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GSV here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Hanbury+Village+Hall/@52.2694042,-2.0542682,3a,60y,332.82h,86.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLMlMVfMda8utcltgGzY0ZA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D3.8823567031359403%26panoid%3DLMlMVfMda8utcltgGzY0ZA%26yaw%3D332.8157562808731!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x4870ebcca89e9793:0xbea76ca9319a7e1f!8m2!3d52.2693389!4d-2.0547558!16s%2Fg%2F11hz117fkq?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTAwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D).
A GSV from 2021 isn't that useful.
However, if you google 'b4091 hanbury road speed limit'. There's a lot of info about changing roads from 40mph to 30mph, e.g. This. (https://www.hanburyparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2021.727.1.pdf)
That is the main reason why I want to go to the location again, to see if those proposals have been implemented yet.
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GSV here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Hanbury+Village+Hall/@52.2694042,-2.0542682,3a,60y,332.82h,86.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sLMlMVfMda8utcltgGzY0ZA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D3.8823567031359403%26panoid%3DLMlMVfMda8utcltgGzY0ZA%26yaw%3D332.8157562808731!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x4870ebcca89e9793:0xbea76ca9319a7e1f!8m2!3d52.2693389!4d-2.0547558!16s%2Fg%2F11hz117fkq?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTAwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D).
A GSV from 2021 isn't that useful.
However, if you google 'b4091 hanbury road speed limit'. There's a lot of info about changing roads from 40mph to 30mph, e.g. This. (https://www.hanburyparishcouncil.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2021.727.1.pdf)
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...yet 50m away from that location is a 40mph repeater sign as well as 40mph commencing signs on the road immediately adjacent to the location...
Are these signs behind where you were detected or in front?
Could you supply a Google Street View of the location?
Can't include google image....
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I will be returning to the location on Tuesday to record the specific locations where the 40mph limit begins and ends and the location where the CTO operator was located. More to confirm in my own mind that Google street view is still current regarding the speed limits.
As NewJudge asked can you provide a Google maps street view (GSV) of where you think you were caught?
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I will be returning to the location on Tuesday to record the specific locations where the 40mph limit begins and ends and the location where the CTO operator was located. More to confirm in my own mind that Google street view is still current regarding the speed limits.
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A 40mph is not a default limit and therefore requires a Traffic Regulation Order. The TRO will define where the 40mph limit ends - which may or may not be the same location as the 30mph terminal signs. Historically, terminal signs were often placed "conservatively" - a hundred yards or so before the start of the lower limit (or after the start of the higher limit).
If you were "caught" within 100 yards of the change of limit, it might be worth looking at the TRO (available from the relevant highway authority).
There might also be a TRO for the 30mph limit if it was not always a restricted road (30mph by virtue of having a compliant system of street-lighting).
Whilst 41mph (or even 40.0001mph) in a 40mph limit is technically an offence, it would never be intentionally prosecuted and would be very difficult to prove beyond any reasonable doubt (which is part of the reason why it would never be prosecuted). Approved speed measurement devices typically have a nominal tolerance of +/-1mph, ignoring operation issues. The reason for the ACPO/NPCC enforcement guidelines (10%+2mph) is primarily so that courts can be certain beyond any reasonable doubt that the recorded speed means that the accused was actually exceeding the speed limit. If a police speedometer might over-read by upto 10% and a follow check recorded a speed of 76mph, was the accused exceeding 70mph?
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...yet 50m away from that location is a 40mph repeater sign as well as 40mph commencing signs on the road immediately adjacent to the location...
Are these signs behind where you were detected or in front?
Could you supply a Google Street View of the location?
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I have received a reply to my query regarding the location of the RPU officer from the CTO concerned, where it was reiterated that I was detected within a 30mph limit, yet 50m away from that location is a 40mph repeater sign as well as 40mph commencing signs on the road immediately adjacent to the location. I therefore feel I have just cause to challenge this alleged speed infringement.
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Let us assume the 41 in a 40 is correct. This carries the same penalty as a 41 in a 30.
Unfortunately for you the NIP must be replied to regardless of the speed limit.
The CPS can bring about a successful prosecution for being 1 MPH over the limit.
Questioning the accuracy of the equipment is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down. So, I suggest you take the blue pill.
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I have just sent an email to the CTO unit requesting an precise location of when the photographs were taken. At the moment, I'm sure that the speed limit is as shown in the primary photo and not as stated on the NIP. If that is the case then I was only 1 mph above that limit. I still have 3 weeks to reply to the NIP which I will do as soon as I get the email reply.
Thanks to those who replied, and comments are taken on board.
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The NIP has only to state the “nature of the alleged offence” (i.e. exceeding the speed limit).
The accompanying “request for driver’s details” asks you to provide the driver’s details at the time and place stated.
So there seems no deficiency in either of those. Once you have responded to the request the driver can set about establishing what the limit actually is.
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what speed limit signs are displayed at the location?
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Regardless, you have to name the driver. (It's a separate offence if you don't)
Can you post the photo? And give the exact location?
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I received a NIP from West Mercia Police regarding an alleged speeding incident. The NIP states that the speed was 41mph in 30mph limited area. The photo supplied as evidence quotes 41mph in a 40mph limit. Is this grounds to challenge the NIP and if so how do I go about it?