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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Lee74 on September 16, 2025, 10:25:24 am

Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Phantomcrusader on September 28, 2025, 02:53:04 am
No not at all. Give this a go.

The alleged contravention did not occur. Having viewed Manchester Council’s bus lane TRO’s that are published on the Traffic Penalty Tribunal website such as TRO reference MC262B, it is evident that Manchester Council define a bus lane as an area of carriageway having a thick white line to diagram 1049 of the TSRGD. The area of carriageway my vehicle occupied in your camera recording is not an area of carriageway that has a thick white line to diagram 1049. Consequently, my vehicle was not in a bus lane according to the definition your TRO’s use.

Furthermore, the placed round blue traffic sign to diagram 953 of the TSRGD is a traffic sign that restricts a route to certain vehicles. The Statutory Guidance for Local Authorities Outside London on Civil Enforcement of Bus Lane and Moving Traffic Contraventions issued by the Secretary by State for Transport does under Annex A advise that this sign is a traffic sign conveying a moving traffic contravention and therefore it is not a sign subject to a bus lane contravention. In which case the Council has used the wrong contravention description. The correct description for contravening the sign is code 33 "using a route restricted to certain vehicles"

The penalty charge should be cancelled because my vehicle was not in a bus lane as defined by your TRO. If this is not accepted, the penalty charge should be cancelled because the signage used conveys a moving traffic contravention and not a bus lane contravention as demonstrated by the aforementioned Annex A and therefore the wrong contravention description is stated on the PCN.
Should the Council not agree with these two points of law, I require the Council to give full reasoning for any rejection with counter arguments directing me to the law that the Council rely upon for their rejection.
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 27, 2025, 02:21:02 pm
Im presuming I'm out of luck with this one?
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 22, 2025, 10:34:35 am
Manchester’s bus lane TRO’s (https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/manchester/) seem to define a bus lane as being bounded by a thick white line but there is no thick white line present. If the bus lane TRO you allegedly contravened uses the same definition, the argument is that the PCN must be cancelled as there is no bus lane in that location as defined by the TRO.
I’m guessing that the bus gate is indicated by a round blue sign with a picture of a bus. If so, the sign conveys that the route is restricted for use by buses. Contravening this sign is, according to Govt guidance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6294ddfa8fa8f5039a1bd695/annex-a-traffic-signs-subject-to-moving-traffic_enforcement.pdf), a moving traffic contravention and not a bus lane contravention. Therefore the appropriate contravention description is Code 33 - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles.

Thanks, How do i get the TRO to check ?
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 22, 2025, 10:33:15 am
We need the whole PCN please.

Hi Apologies I fell ill, Cant seem to modify my post. so attached them below.

(https://i.imgur.com/8NFSYHx.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8PzVYGL.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/08T9EXs.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Phantomcrusader on September 17, 2025, 02:17:08 pm
Manchester’s bus lane TRO’s (https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/manchester/) seem to define a bus lane as being bounded by a thick white line but there is no thick white line present. If the bus lane TRO you allegedly contravened uses the same definition, the argument is that the PCN must be cancelled as there is no bus lane in that location as defined by the TRO.
 
I’m guessing that the bus gate is indicated by a round blue sign with a picture of a bus. If so, the sign conveys that the route is restricted for use by buses. Contravening this sign is, according to Govt guidance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6294ddfa8fa8f5039a1bd695/annex-a-traffic-signs-subject-to-moving-traffic_enforcement.pdf), a moving traffic contravention and not a bus lane contravention. Therefore the appropriate contravention description is Code 33 - Using a route restricted to certain vehicles.
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Hippocrates on September 16, 2025, 09:53:05 pm
We need the whole PCN please.
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Incandescent on September 16, 2025, 05:56:17 pm
Hi

Yes i think he was, he is a new driver.
Fatal on its own in a big city, one must always look out for signs restricting access.
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 16, 2025, 05:30:38 pm
Hi

Yes i think he was, he is a new driver.
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Incandescent on September 16, 2025, 04:51:11 pm
He came out of St Marys Parsonage and turned right

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iYHzzsgXPmUE3sNn6
So, there are two advance warning signs: -
Opposite the traffic lights where he turned right
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XZCoJLSDQEjFqEh66
except this can be obscured by buses
https://maps.app.goo.gl/46Rdgyqg6oHrdey49
The sign would have been better placed before the traffic lights, so bad sign positioning, but there is a second sign 30 yards before the restriction signs on Bridge St.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3qv9AeWCEQEyvciw7

So with two advance signs, I think an adjudicator would decide the signage is sufficient. Was your son using satnav ?
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 16, 2025, 02:45:42 pm
Done Thanks
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: John U.K. on September 16, 2025, 01:28:40 pm
You may wish to edit yr opening post to redact his name & address.
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 16, 2025, 12:22:59 pm
He came out of St Marys Parsonage and turned right

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iYHzzsgXPmUE3sNn6
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Incandescent on September 16, 2025, 12:09:46 pm
Hi Thanks for the response

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iYHzzsgXPmUE3sNn6
OK, fine. What was his approach to the bus gate, all along Bridge St, or a turn off a side road, please name it ?
Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 16, 2025, 11:56:11 am
Hi Thanks for the response

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iYHzzsgXPmUE3sNn6

Title: Re: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Incandescent on September 16, 2025, 11:50:36 am
1. There is no legal requirement for a contravention code

2. Bus gates are enforced as bus lane contraventions. This was decided many years ago in the High Court, even  though the legislation never mentions bus gates.
www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/R%20%28Oxfordshire%20CC%29%20v%20The%20Bus%20Lane%20Adjudicator%202010.pdf

Please post a GSV link to the location.
Title: Bus lane contravention Bridge street west Manchester
Post by: Lee74 on September 16, 2025, 10:25:24 am
Hi

My son has received this PCN. I have looked at similar posts and none seem to have been positive. I have looked at the below PCN and some things that stand out and may be worth challenging are

There is no contravention code mentioned anywhere - Does the Traffic Management Act dictate this must be included?
It states the contravention as being in a bus lane (during the hours of operation of the bus lane) - Firstly The picture shows this a bus gate and secondly it fails to mention what the hours of operation are.

Can anyone advise if these are valid points ?

Many thanks for your responses.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZNqc8H6.jpeg)