Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: sjcuk7 on September 15, 2025, 07:10:18 pm
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Good morning,
I am glad to announce that London Tribunals emailed me this morning to say that LBHF won't contest my appeal with Case Reference: 2250576030, hence my PCN is now cancelled.
You may use the Case Ref supporting your appeal if it comes to that. Just keep the faith and do your research if needed and you'll succeed in the end.
In regard to the sign, I believe the sign is still there, but covered by the tree branches.
Thanks to the forum and its members like Incadescent, my appeal was successful.
Thanks and regards,
Almep13
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Sorry, it was indeed almep13 who posted with a date. Have you applied to London Tribunals yet ?
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Why call them ? You have a date for the adjudication, and they have plenty of time to consider their extremely tardy response to your reps, so hopefully will DNC when the time approaches.
I may be missing something or you're confusing me with Almep13, I don't have any such date - however they do as they mentioned here, on my thread.
So, with that in mind, do you think I should follow my PCN Notice to Owner up?
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Why call them ? You have a date for the adjudication, and they have plenty of time to consider their extremely tardy response to your reps, so hopefully will DNC when the time approaches.
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OK, so PCN confirms my guess it was served under the LLA & TfL Act 2003. This means there is no 56 day limit to respond to formal representations, but the delay in replying is excessive, so this should be one of your points at the adjudication.
Thanks......we'll have to wait I guess.
Out of interest, would you or anyone else advise calling them or just sitting it out?
I'm curious as to how the missing warning sign will play out, it's clearly in place in Almep13's pictures from July, but gone by my alleged contravention in September last year.
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OK, so PCN confirms my guess it was served under the LLA & TfL Act 2003. This means there is no 56 day limit to respond to formal representations, but the delay in replying is excessive, so this should be one of your points at the adjudication.
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Hi sjcuk7,
Thanks for your reply.
My case is at London Tribunals scheduled for a video-hearing in March 2026.
Let's keep one-another updated with the outcomes of our appeals.
Thanks and regards,
Almep13
[/quote
Hey Almep13,
Now that I'm worried about my case returning to bite, I've looked through your pictures more closely and can see you have a warning sign behind a tree on Hartswood Road pictured.
My photo from last Sept shows it had been removed!!
https://imgpile.com/m/d5n1vCZ
(https://imgpile.com/m/d5n1vCZ)
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Actually......I took a photo of the PCN, which I've just found......I thought I'd originally posted it, although all my photo links don't work from the device I'm replying from, perhaps they have expired - it's been so long!
https://imgpile.com/p/z5XM4KR(https://imgpile.com/p/z5XM4KR)
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I see no PCN has been posted yet, so please do so. Look at the legislation at the top of the PCN. the 56 day limit to reply to formal reps against a Notice to Owner only applies to the Traffic Management Act 2004.
Slightly embarrassing there, I have mislaid the front page photo copy I took. I only have the second page and a copy of my written additional comments. I can view online but it's not the actual PCN that comes up.
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Best of luck.
If I'm right my case should have expired as it was served by post, making it a Notice to Owner and requiring my appeal to be responded to within 56 days, unless I've misunderstood somewhere.
I see no PCN has been posted yet, so please do so. Look at the legislation at the top of the PCN. the 56 day limit to reply to formal reps against a Notice to Owner only applies to the Traffic Management Act 2004. However, the council also have a duty of fairness, so getting on for 5 months means the unfairness test is met, in my opinion. You should win on this alone if you take them to London Tribunals.
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Best of luck.
If I'm right my case should have expired as it was served by post, making it a Notice to Owner and requiring my appeal to be responded to within 56 days, unless I've misunderstood somewhere.
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Hi sjcuk7,
Thanks for your reply.
My case is at London Tribunals scheduled for a video-hearing in March 2026.
Let's keep one-another updated with the outcomes of our appeals.
Thanks and regards,
Almep13
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Hi there,
No I HAVEN'T recieved a response yet. As it has been over four months now since I lodged my appeal I wrongly assumed the case had been closed. Astonishingly, according to their website, it's still very much OPEN !!!!
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Hi,
Have you received a response on your appeal? Although judging by how long it took LBHF to reject my appeal, just over 60 days (appealed on 08 July and it was rejected on 08 Oct), I doubt you'd have received a response yet. But if you have, I'd be keen to know their response.
Kind regards,
Almep13
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OK, so the council have clearly recognised that advance warning is necessesary by providing an advance warning on the approach to the restriction, but have ignored the more important need for people turning right from Hartswood road. So I suggest your reps make two points, (1) PCN time of one minute into the restriction is ridiculous because vehicle clocks are not totally accurate, and some allowance should be made for that. APplication of common sense by those issuing PCNs is needed. and (2) No advance warning sign for vehicles turning right from Hartwood Road, yet the council provide advance warning on Cobbold Road, where the signs are visible from much further away. Mention council duty under LATOR Regulation 18, to provide adequate signs of restrictions.
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The photos on your PCN are frames from a video taken by their CCTV camera. You should be able to view this video on their website using PCN Number and car reg.
GSV is not sufficiently up-to-date, because the GSV link you posted is for August 2024, and doesnt show the restriction signs, therefore no advance sign. If you want to submit representations, you need to do some legwork with a camera to see if there are any advance signs on the road you used, Hartswood Road.
Thanks for all your advice. I've been back and taken pictures of Cobbold Road's pre-warning signs and the lack of any in Hartswood Road.
https://imgur.com/gcAv278
https://imgur.com/igp7ENM
I've further checked the wording on all the signs, which indicate a restriction from Sept-July, from 8am - 9.30am and 2.30pm - 4pm. Clearly the restriction's intended purpose to to prevent traffic during school drop off and collection times, the location given on the PCN even states "Wendell Park School - Cobbold Rd"
On the date of my contravention, 2nd September there was no school, they had an inset day and term didn't commence until the day after on the 3rd.
https://www.wendellpark.lbhf.sch.uk/News___Events/Term-Dates-25102021143445/
https://imgur.com/h3kYwZj
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The photos on your PCN are frames from a video taken by their CCTV camera. You should be able to view this video on their website using PCN Number and car reg.
GSV is not sufficiently up-to-date, because the GSV link you posted is for August 2024, and doesnt show the restriction signs, therefore no advance sign. If you want to submit representations, you need to do some legwork with a camera to see if there are any advance signs on the road you used, Hartswood Road. Another aspect is that the time of the alleged contravention is only 1 minute after the restriction start time, so you could argue that whilst the council camera is no doubt synchronised with an atomic clock somewhere, such technology is not present on most motor car clocks, so you consider the one minute to fall within the grounds of de minimis, and ask the council to use some common sense when serving PCNs based on times.
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I have posted my i.imgur links but for some reason this forum wasn't resolving them in my post
https://i.imgur.com/degkIyz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ykhoCKX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mda4fWN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qF2XNHi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WHzS8HH.jpg
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Hi there, received on Saturday 13th Sept this PCN for a contravention on the 2nd Sept.
Travelling along Hartswood Road and turning right into Cobbold Road I entered the restricted zone at 1 minute past the 8am start time.
I was using this route to circumnavigate the roadworks at the roundabout junction of Askew Road and Goldhawk Road, and and the awful tailback into Goldhawk Road.
I don't usually have to bypass my usual route but the jam was particularly bad that morining and was making me late for work. I used my car Sat Nav map for a detour, turned left onto Stamford Brook Road and approached Cobbold road travelling north on Hartswood Road.
[img width=1100 height=88.99107360839844]https://i.imgur.com/degkIyz.jpg[/img]
[img width=1100 height=88.99107360839844]https://i.imgur.com/ykhoCKX.jpg[/img]
The PCN states I have 28 days to pay £160 and also a 14 day period to pay the reduced amount of £80, however the images submitted were from an unmanned permanent static camera, does this constitute a CCTV one? Can I argue that their notice should offer 21 days as a reduced period and is therefore invalid? Granted I may have misunderstood what is and isn't a CCTV one, but I can't see that this is a different form of camera as it's not live.
[img width=1100 height=88.99107360839844]https://i.imgur.com/mda4fWN.jpg[/img]
[img width=1100 height=88.99107360839844]https://i.imgur.com/qF2XNHi.jpg[/img]
[img width=1100 height=88.99107360839844]https://i.imgur.com/WHzS8HH.jpg[/img]
(https://imgur.com/jwi5r54)
(https://imgur.com/qF2XNHi)
(https://imgur.com/WHzS8HH)
Finally I need to check the approach from Hartswood Road for any warning signage, I'll post back with anything I find, I doubt there isn't any - If there isn't do I have a good case on that alone?
Streetmap link - https://maps.app.goo.gl/eV6zmPvNf3teyv3K9
EDIT: I vividly recall noticing the huge pencils marking the crossing point as I came up to the junction, in fact I'd go as far as to say they were where my eyes were directed when checking the direction of traffic, rather than the highly mounted signs.