Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: tyronejiggles on September 13, 2025, 12:14:50 pm
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If you have pleaded not guilty to the alleged offences, you are entitled to disclosures of the evidence, which incorporates any statements and video evidence. Video evidence will corroberate the police officers evidence. Whilst there is no mention of a second police officer, however if there was two officers then each officer can corroberate the other officers evidence.
What ever device they use, this needs to be corroberated by the police officers evidence.
Police officers are highly trained, competent and experienced in such matters.
There is no second guessing what the police officer saw or did not see, your defence will be extremely flimsy. You have to look at what you did or not do at the time. If there is good possibility that you did at some point commit the allegations, then you must consider changing your plea to guilty. Also, consider if you had been riding longer than the 2 year probation period, would you still be wandering down the path of pleading not guilty.
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I'm not sure the OP has continually denied committing the offence...
I do not believe I was speeding and definitely not pulling any wheelies and contest all allegations
It's in bold as that's how the OP wrote it.
@NewJudge
Unsure, but definitely not 40mph.
Contesting the "Without Due Care" Charge:
I deny the allegations. I will be pleading not guilty on the basis that I was not riding in the manner described (no wheelies or dangerous weaving).
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I'm not sure the OP has continually denied committing the offence...
The reality may be more that I am trying to see what they can prove. Would that be an unadvisable approach?
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There's one thing that doesn't make any sense to me.
You have continually denied committing the offences yet you have stated:
I've since upgraded my license from A2 to A around 2 months ago in order to improve my skills and awareness as a result of this offence
Why would you feel the need to improve both your riding skill and awareness "as a result of this offence" if you are so sure that you didn't commit the offences?
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if you were pulling wheelies with your girlfriend on the back i would have thought the verbal exchange with the Plod would have included mention of how dangerous that would be, maybe attracting a DD charge ???
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... My girlfriend was on the back of my motorcycle which would obviously be a major aggravating factor...
Er....
This seems to be the first time that you mentioned your girlfriend was on the bike...
[Edit for spelling...]
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@Southpaw82
because I haven’t paid for representation at trial yet, only for a consultation with Freeman. I am looking to see what my options are. As it stands, I plan to write to Met prosecutions and ask for charges to be dropped given all the procedural holes. If that fails, I plan on offering to plead guilty on careless if they drop speeding. Then hiring representation for mitigation. But I am financially limited so wanted to see if this was a sound strategy before committing to it.
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Why on earth are you asking us if you’re getting legal advice (that you appear to have waived privilege over to a large extent)?
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With regard to potential mitigation, most of the health issues you mention actually make things worse. If they really affect your driving, should you be driving at all?
The clean licence and further test are not mitigation.
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Hi everyone, hope all is well. I've previously posted on FTLA regarding this case but there have been major developments so I will summarise the case and outline my defence and I'd really appreciate some advice on how to proceed.
Case Details:
Charges: Speeding (allegedly 40mph in a 20mph zone) and Careless Driving (relating to alleged weaving in and out of traffic as well as pulling wheelies).
Plea: Not Guilty.
Trial scheduled for 30 March 2026 (no case management or other hearing scheduled).
Crucial Factor: I am a "new driver" (licensed for less than two years), meaning a conviction resulting in 6 or more penalty points will lead to the revocation of my license. Clean license so far. Been nearly a year since the alleged offence. SJP received around 5 and a half months after alleged offence. Trial set for just over a year after alleged offence.
Case details:
One officer has provided a written witness statement and in this, he claims:
1. I was clearly travelling in excess of the posted 20mph limit and visibly travelling faster than all other road users. He does not say that he performed a pace check, or measured my speed in any other way (speed gun, etc).
2. He is satisfied that the manner of my riding fell below that of a careful and competent driver, saying he'd describe my riding as driving without due care based on the speed at which I was riding, as well as as the wheelies he alleges I was performing at speed and weaving in and out of traffic at speed.
He puts forwarded video evidence in the form of his BWV (QDC/1) and council CCTV of the incident showing my vehicle clearly travelling faster than other traffic (QDC/2).
He then states that he pointed out the offence(s) as:
139 - Excess speed (20mph) local order - Speed LTI 20-20
192 - Driving without due care
and that he said "I am reporting you for the question to be considered of prosecuting you for these offences. You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now something which you later rely on in court, anything you do say may be given in evidence".
My girlfriend was on the back of my motorcycle which would obviously be a major aggravating factor.
Summary of Merits / Key Defence Issues:
I have already had a detailed consultation with Nick Freeman which identified numerous and serious weaknesses in the prosecution's case. The key points are as follows:
I do not believe I was speeding and definitely not pulling any wheelies and contest all allegations
Fundamental Procedural Failure (No Valid NIP): There is a strong argument to be made (Mr. Freeman claims) that a valid verbal Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) was not given at the roadside. Unbeknownst to the officer at the time, I recorded the vast majority of the interaction on my mobile phone that I was holding by my side in a manner that didn't make it clear that I was recording. I began this recording straight after getting off of the motorcycle as ordered and handing over my driving license. My own video recording of the stop appears to show the officer failed to provide an effective caution and thus I contest that no NIP was issued.
Now what he actually said, word for word, is:
"You’ve been reported for offences for which there are various options available to police depending on the type of offences committed and your eligibility. This could be a conditional offer of fixed penalty, a diversionary course or prosecution. You will be informed in due course of the action the police intend to take and the options available to you. You are not required to do anything until you receive further communication from the Metropolitan Police Traffic Prosecutions Unit. For any further information you can refer to the Met Police website."
He never named any offences like he claims he did (though I submit that the prosecution would likely claim that he made the speeding allegation obvious through statements like slow it down or do you know how fast you were going, or his colleague stating I could've killed somebody etc etc). Apart from this, I'm 100% sure that the words "without due care or attention" were never uttered as evident in this video footage.
Missing Prosecution Evidence: Now rather conveniently, following my not guilty plea causing the case to go to trial and exit the SJP process, this primary officer (PC Cameron) has provided another witness statement where he states that whilst his Body Worn Video was recording at the time, it is no longer available as it had not been saved. This is highly suspicious and prevents an objective review of the roadside procedure and conversation. I believe he may have watched the video back and realised his failure to caution. No mention has been made of the council camera footage that allegedly shows me travelling "faster than any other road user" (I'm not sure what this would prove even if it did exist).
Legally Insufficient Speeding Charge: The speeding charge appears to be fundamentally flawed as:
No calibrated speed check (laser, pace check, etc.) was said to have been performed in the only witness statement.
The allegation relies solely on the officer's statement, which is legally insufficient for a conviction without corroboration.
The officer’s statement falsely claims a speed was recorded using an "LTI 2020" device, which was not present or used. This is evident as none of the statement narrative refers to any device, the newbie officer likely picked the wrong offence code on his tablet.
Significant Officer Credibility Issues: The combination of a fabrication in the witness statement (regarding the NIP and pointing out the offences), the missing bodycam footage, and the offence code logged on the system put together create a challenge to the credibility of the prosecution's sole witness. The prosecution's case rests entirely on the testimony of an officer whose credibility is demonstrably questionable on multiple fronts.
Given these significant issues, I believe my case has strong prospects of success with effective representation. I have the officer's witness statement, all court correspondence, and my own video footage ready review.
Now, weaknesses:
The officer alleges that he pointed out the offences at 23:00 yet my footage begins at 23:02. Now, the officer makes one other reference to time and that was at 22:50 when he says he first saw me. In the start of the footage, you see at least 3 or 4 officers deliberating for around 40 seconds on what they saw me doing before the testifying officer approaches me saying "now, where do you live [my name]?", then proceeding to ask about where I am coming from/going to, giving me a bollocking, etc before making the statement I got on video followed by "slow down" and storming off. The video is around 6 minutes. I can see the prosecution possibly alleging that he would've cautioned me at the very start but I don't see how that makes sense because he simply ordered me off the bike and asked for my drivers license, why would he caution me, then go away, come back, give me a bollocking and THEN read out that statement I quote from the video?
There was another officer present who could easily 'back the blue' and help back up her fellow colleague by making her own similar corroborative statements.
I don't have any statutory defence for the careless offence apart from the NIP argument as well as my own word whereas for speeding there is currently one officer's witness statement and nothing else.
So...
What does the forum think? Should I instruct a lawyer for a not guilty plea to both charges? Freeman & Co's advice was invaluable but their costs for a full trial are out of my budget... Virtually every lawyer contests that my careless driving defence is still somewhat weak. There is also this other officer who was at the scene but never provided a statement. I suppose if they corroborate this officer I'm screwed anyway.
Regardless of my denials, I do not want to waste my money on a lawyer and have this in the back of mind until March if I am going against a justice system that is never going to acquit me. And if I am convicted of either charge I will very likely still lose my license (and I've ran quotes, no one will insure me after).
Should I fight both charges? Should I fight the speeding but not the careless then try mitigation for the careless? Should I plead guilty to both? Would fighting the speeding but pleading guilty for careless result in less leniency? What would you put my odds of acquittal at on each of the two charges, and if convicted, what would you estimate the penalty to be given passenger as aggravating factor and the following as potential mitigation: clean license, taken further license test after offence (A2 to A license), severe mental health issues (anxiety and depression) on NHS file, previous CBT therapy, currently in private therapy, private healthcare documented bladder issues necessitating frequent urination.
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Literally ask the prosecutor if they will drop the speeding if you plead guilty to the careless driving. I’d want to do it on a controlled basis, e.g. you admit to pulling a wheelie once for a short period. Enough to keep you below 6 points.
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@Southpaw82
Hi, thanks again for your response. That is an interesting suggestion, how would one offer a plea as part of a negotiation? (I was under the impression that this was really only a thing in the US)
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Is there opinion evidence of speed from more than one witness?
The OP could offer to plead guilty to the careless if the speeding is dropped.
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Did you actually commit either of these offences?
In particular, were you exceeding the speed limit? It seems you are only sure of what speed you were not doing, not what speed you were. If you were, pleading not guilty carries a considerable risk. The officer will give his evidence that you were speeding. You will then have to give yours. What will that consist of, bearing in mind you are not sure what speed you were travelling at? Of course you could choose not to offer any evidence. then the court will simply base their verdict on the officer's testimony.
Similarly for the careless driving. Are you saying the officer was mistaken?
If you are convicted of both offences you will see only one lot of points imposed (for the offence which attracts the highest number). From your very brief description, it is unlikely that the careless driving offence will attract more than five. But the speeding - if he court accepts the speed alleged - would almost certainly see six points. The band of seriousness runs from 31 to 40mph and the suggested penalty is either a ban or 4-6 points. Whilst the sentencing is not a precise mathematical exercise, it is obvious that the court will consider that the top of the sentencing range is appropriate for an offence which is at the top of the speed range. this is especially so when the offence is aggravated by an allegation of careless driving.
Your mitigation is unlikely to cut much ice. Whilst committing further offences since this incident would certainly aggravate these offences, having a clean record since then does not mitigate them. Drivers should not commit motoring offences, and not having done so recently does no mitigate any committed earlier. The consequences of revocation are one of the reasons the New Drivers' Act is in place.
You could plead guilty to speeding and offer a “basis of plea”. Your basis would be that you disagree with the speed alleged. The difficulty you have with this is that you do not know what speed you were doing.
My overall view is that you are unlikely to be acquitted of either of these offences but in particular the speeding – the one most likely to see you with six points. I think your best (and only realistic) chance of avoiding six points is to plead guilty to both, but explain to the court the extra consequences that revocation will have on you which is over and above the normal result of revocation for most people. Ask the court if, in those circumstances, they would be prepared to sentence outside their guidelines and impose fewer than six points.
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it does appear to be conflicting evidence.
unless the NIP has generic info or there has been human error on the NIP. either way i would doubt it will make any difference as the officers evidence will undoubtedly be enough.
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@Southpaw82
The reality may be more that I am trying to see what they can prove. Would that be an unadvisable approach?
Depends on how much money you want to risk. You will be served (if you have not been already) with the initial details of the prosecution case. There is limited scope to get further information, particularly without a not guilty plea. Once you enter a not guilty plea the potential court costs start to escalate. If you are found guilty after a trial, the CPS will often ask for costs of around £600, assuming they haven’t had to call an expert witness (which can cost thousands).
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@mickR
the charge sheet says: Speeding - exceed 20 mph - Local Order - manned equipment
Reported Speed(mph): 40
At 23:00 l pointed out the offence(s) as:
139 - Excess speed (20 mph) local order - Speed LTI 20-20
192 - Driving without due care
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where does it state he was using an LTI20/20 ?
you say his statement makes it clear it was his estimation.
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@Freecall
Thank you for your in-depth response. My main issue is avoiding revocation. Should I admit guilt, do you think I stand any chance of avoiding revocation given the below mitigation:
- Genuine remorse shown with an apology read
- This alleged offence occurred over 6 months ago now, and I have had no motoring or otherwise issues with police since
- I've since upgraded my license from A2 to A around 2 months ago in order to improve my skills and awareness as a result of this offence
- I understand the typical case for a new driver is points over disqualification, however revocation has significantly greater consequences in my unique case: specifically, a driver can simply retake their theory and book a practical test for about less than 100 quid. In my case, I'd have to retake theory, CBT, mod 1 and mod 2 (£600 at a minimum), wait another 2 years, then retake my A test (another set of mod 1 and mod2, another £600 minimum). This is a far greater punishment than for a driver who could be back to where they were within a week.
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@NewJudge
Unsure, but definitely not 40mph.
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@mickR
The officer was at a red light at a junction where I turned left (he would've been on the right, perpendicular at the red light, thus now behind me once I'd turned left). I am 100% sure he was simply stopped at a red light but moving in traffic (wasn't parked). I know he didn't use a Speed LTI 20/20 device, if you read his witness statement, it's made clear that all his observations of my speed are clearly based in estimates and he likely chose the wrong charge from a template.
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@Southpaw82
The reality may be more that I am trying to see what they can prove. Would that be an unadvisable approach?
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what did the officers statement say regards where he was, ie parked up assessing traffic, driving along the carriageway, stationary in traffic??
where do you think he was?
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The speeding offence is likely to attract six points.
How fast do you believe you were travelling?
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The most obvious question is why is the police officer (or officers) saying that you were pulling wheelies and weaving if you weren’t? That’s hardly a matter of interpretation, particularly if it’s caught on camera.
Or is the reality that you’re seeing what they might be able to prove, rather than what actually happened?
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Without commenting on your case which you have described or the actions you have taken so far, addressing your specific questions:
My Questions for the Forum:
- After pleading "Not Guilty" via the SJP online portal, what is the usual procedure and timeframe for receiving a court date for the first hearing? Should I be proactively contacting the court to confirm they've received my plea?
You will receive a postal requisition to attend court in order that the matter can be case-managed (formally enter your plea, set a trial date, order a timetable for service of evidence and so on).
- What is the correct procedure and timing for requesting the disclosure of the video evidence (QDC/1 and QDC/2) from the CPS? This seems critical to my entire defence.
Evidence which the prosecution will rely on will be disclosed in compliance with the timetable set by the Court at the case management hearing (often referred to as an NGAP court).
- How strong is the challenge against the alleged LTI 20/20 speed reading? How can I best argue in court that this was likely an administrative error and that the evidence is just the officer's opinion of my speed?
The officer will be called as a witness (whom you or your solicitor can cross-examine), you have not told us what your reasoning is for your view that this matter "was likely an administrative error and that the evidence is just the officer's opinion of my speed" so no idea.
- Given that the "due care" charge is currently my word against the officer's, what is the best strategy for preparing my defence before I get to see the video evidence?
You don't need to do anything at present but I would think very carefully about your interpretation of events compared to that of the officer. Do you really think that you have a defence given that you can be pretty certain that the court will be able to see for itself what actually happened?
- What are the likely penalties if I am found guilty of one or both offences?
Careless driving will attract a fine (which can be wide-ranging in amount depending on the severity of the offence but from what you say probably something like Band B to C fine or 100-150% of your relevant weekly income). You will also receive points on your licence of between 3 ad 9 points or a disqualification if the matter is considered to be serious enough. From what you say, the most likely is probably at the lower end of this range, perhaps 3-6 points - but of course nobody on here saw what happened so we can't really know.
- Is there any realistic way to avoid a license revocation if I do end up with 6 or more points?
No, this is an automatic administrative matter handled by the DVLA.
Thank you in advance for any guidance you can offer.
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Hello all,
I would be grateful for some advice on my situation. I have received a Single Justice Procedure notice for a motoring offence and have submitted my plea, but I am now unsure of the next steps and the best way to prepare my defence.
The Situation:
Date of Alleged Offence: 12th March 2025
Charges:
Speeding - exceed 20 mph - Local Order (alleged speed 40 mph)
Drive a mechanically propelled vehicle without due care and attention
My Status: I am a "new driver." I got my full motorcycle license in June 2023, so the offence date falls within my first two years. I currently have a clean license. My main goal is to avoid getting 6 points and having my license revoked.
Plea: I have already responded to the SJP online and have pleaded NOT GUILTY to both charges. This was submitted around two weeks ago, and I have a screenshot confirmation, but I have not heard anything since.
The Officer's Statement & My Defence:
The officer's statement alleges that he was in a marked police vehicle and saw me on my Yamaha MT-07 riding at speed, performing "wheelies," and "weaving in and out of traffic."
My defence is based on the following points:
Contesting the Speeding Charge:
The statement of facts claims "The speed recorded by means of Speed LTI 20/20 was 40 miles per hour."
I strongly believe this is an administrative error. The officer's narrative does not describe him stopping to use a laser device. He saw me for approximately 10 seconds while he was also driving. I believe it is highly improbable, if not impossible, for him to have obtained a valid reading with an LTI 20/20 from a moving vehicle in these circumstances. I believe his assessment of my speed was an estimate.
Contesting the "Without Due Care" Charge:
I deny the allegations. I will be pleading not guilty on the basis that I was not riding in the manner described (no wheelies or dangerous weaving).
Key Evidence:
The officer's statement mentions two pieces of video evidence: body-worn video (marked QDC/1) and CCTV (marked QDC/2). I have not yet seen any of this video evidence.
Previous History:
For full transparency, I have no points on my license. However, I did a Driver Awareness Course around June 2024 which was offered in lieu of prosecution for what I believe was also a "driving without due care" allegation.
My Questions for the Forum:
- After pleading "Not Guilty" via the SJP online portal, what is the usual procedure and timeframe for receiving a court date for the first hearing? Should I be proactively contacting the court to confirm they've received my plea?
- What is the correct procedure and timing for requesting the disclosure of the video evidence (QDC/1 and QDC/2) from the CPS? This seems critical to my entire defence.
- How strong is the challenge against the alleged LTI 20/20 speed reading? How can I best argue in court that this was likely an administrative error and that the evidence is just the officer's opinion of my speed?
- Given that the "due care" charge is currently my word against the officer's, what is the best strategy for preparing my defence before I get to see the video evidence?
- What are the likely penalties if I am found guilty of one or both offences? Is there any realistic way to avoid a license revocation if I do end up with 6 or more points?
Thank you in advance for any guidance you can offer.