Free Traffic Legal Advice
General discussion => The Flame Pit => Topic started by: Bradley-29 on September 12, 2025, 04:23:47 pm
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4. AFAIK - is not good enough. where is your factual proof?
I appreciate your reply though
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I think you mean 5?
Section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence not to comply with a lawfully-placed road sign. In specific areas - e.g. London - that offence has been "decriminalised", and can be enforced by the highway authority.
So, yes, TfL can issue a PCN provided the sign has been lawfully placed, which brings us back to your original question about the TRO. Like New Judge, I'd be very surprised if there isn't one in place, but stranger things have happened.
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They have not made any temporary traffic regulation orders available to facilitate the closure.
Have you contacted TfL as I suggested to find out when the TTO was ordered and where you can view it?
If not I think your claim is a bit questionable - especially where such a major and lengthy closure is involved. I found where the proposal was published and I agree it doesn't prove that the order was actually made. But I'd be surprised if it wasn't.
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2. Shouldn't it be easily available? If they don't make it available...is it null and void?
3. Yes I have, they keep avoiding the answer by asking me a question...and ignoring my question... and taking 20 days to respond under the FOI act...only to reply with a question... I have had no answers
4. AFAIK - is not good enough. where is your factual proof?
I appreciate your reply though
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1. Yes
2. "Available" - yes. "Easily available" - how long is a piece of string?
3. Have you asked TfL?
4. Don't know.
5. AFAIK, yes
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ok that's fine...I understand and can accept that..
So can anyone assist with the legality of the signs please? Are the road signs legal?
also
1. Can TFL single out general vehicles with a Temporary traffic order? For example - can TFL say a road is closed and only authorised vehicles can use the road? Authorised vehicles being emergency vehicles, busses, black cabs and authorised vehicles?
2. Do TFL need to make a temporary traffic regulation order available to the public and easily available for the public to view?
3. I have searched and cannot find a temporary traffic order for the Gallows corner major closure. The only temporary traffic order was back in 2022 for Queen Elizabeth II. Am I missing something?
4. Is there an active temporary order currently in place for Gallows corner flyover replacement to allow TFL to temporarily restrict or prohibit the use of the road by vehicles. Or can someone show me where to look for this order?
5. Can TFL issue a penalty charge for general vehicles using the roundabout during the Gallows corner flyover works? Or do they need another order to be allowed to issue a PCN?
All help much appreciated in advance
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I merged the 2 threads as they seem to concern the same topic, namely the temporary changes to the particular roundabout and approach roads, and any PCNs that unwitting motorists might receive as a result.
Given any PCNs would arise from the contravention of restrictions communicated by the signs, they would seem to concern the same broad topic...
I will leave those with relevant expertise to comment on any legal points. My layman's point about the 'no right turn' was that if one were seeking to argue that the signs are not properly visible when turning right, that argument might be weakened by the fact that performing such a turn in the first place appears to be prohibited.
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1. I only want to know legality please... Signs can be illegal or positioned illegally and therefore null and void.
2.'MAJOR' means big/massive/important/ e.g. bigger than a spot on the road roundabout... used by over 1,000s vehicles daily.. Gallows corner is one of the only roundabouts that joins east and west... it is a major roundabout and has major connections...it is an important roundabout.
3. Because it is a different topic...The first was about charges legality and the second is about signs legality...
why have you grouped them together? just because I am the same person? or because I am talking about a 'major' roundabout? would you group everyone's post to mine querying Gallows corner now? I would like them ungrouped please.
4. Just because a 'no right turn ' sign has been placed somewhere does not make it legal. I really want to know the legality. Roads and highway's need laws/orders/regulations to follow...that's why we have laws/orders/regulations...
AND WHY ARE YOU HAVING A GO AT ME??? and picking on my words 'major'?? I HAVENT DONE ANYTHING WRONG....I just want answers
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As above. Also
1. Why have you started a second thread on this?
2. What exactly is a "major" (sorry, MAJOR) roundabout?
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They have no signs when turning right onto the road
Your image shows a 'No right turn' sign, so assuming drivers obey that sign, they wouldn't be turning right onto the road in the first place?
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Dear friends,
TFL have closed a MAJOR roundabout - Gallows corner roundabout RM3 8AA. They do not allow general traffic. They still allow busses, black cabs and emergency vehicles and authorised vehicles. They have not made any temporary traffic regulation orders available to facilitate the closure.
Are these signs legal? They have no signs when turning right onto the road then suddenly have signs on a BOX JUNCTION....too sudden to stop and read....ALSO there are no bus lanes through the roundabout or leading upto the roundabout and the sign says BUS LANE CAMERAS...
(https://i.imgur.com/NoH1pod.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/o5SS1lP.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/H7QzJak.jpeg)
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1. Can TFL single out domestic vehicles with a Temporary traffic regulation order? For example - can TFL say a road is closed and only authorised vehicles can use the road? Authorised vehicles being emergency vehicles, busses and black cabs? Is it legal?
2. Do TFL need to make a temporary traffic regulation order available to the public and easily available for the public to view?
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1. Can TFL single out domestic vehicles with a Temporary traffic order? For example - can TFL say a road is closed and only authorised vehicles can use the road? Authorised vehicles being emergency vehicles, busses and black cabs?
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Try as I may, I cannot find the TRO. TfL have a section for TROs for each of the London Boroughs and there are so few there that I cannot believe it is kept up to date. I suggest you email TfL and ask them where they are published.
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Could anyone help please?
1. I have searched and cannot find a temporary traffic order for the Gallows corner major closure. The only temporary traffic order was back in 2022 for Queen Elizabeth II. Am I missing something? NewJudge, are you able to find the required order?
2. Is there an active temporary order currently in place for Gallows corner flyover replacement to allow TFL to temporarily restrict or prohibit the use of the road by vehicles. Or can someone show me where to look for this order?
3. Can TFL issue a penalty charge for the Gallows corner flyover works? Or do they need another order to be allowed to issue a PCN?
All help much appreciated in advance
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Thank you for your reply NewJudge, you have been very helpful
1. I have searched and cannot find a temporary traffic order for the Gallows corner major closure. The only temporary traffic order was back in 2022 for Queen Elizabeth II. Am I missing something? NewJudge, are you able to find the required order?
2. I feel TFL might be corrupt... On TFL website it states under Gallows corner flyover works-
"Closed with local access
The A127 and A12 are closed with local access only between the following roads:
A12 Eastern Avenue East between Masefield Crescent and Pettits Lane/Pettits Lane North."
YET TFL have closed access completely. I feel they do not want to pay someone to monitor the access 24/7...which is unfair on residents of Masefield Crescent.
3. Is there an active temporary order currently in place to allow TFL to temporarily restrict or prohibit the use of a road by vehicles. Or can someone show me where to look?
3.b And can TFL issue a penalty charge? Or do they need another order to be allowed to issue a PCN?
All help much appreciated in advance
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1. Is probably something to do with the publication dates of the "Romford Recorder".
2. The link I provided is to the "Romford Recorder's" public notice section. I believe TfL must advertise their proposals in the local press before making any orders, so that was the required notice of their intention. You would have to search TfL's traffic orders to see if it was actually made. I cannot imagine TfL would implement such a major closure without the required order.
3. Don't know.
4. The proposal says the order will last until 31st March 2026 (or when the works have been completed, if sooner).
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Thank you sharing this information.
1. On the article, it says "expired" what does that mean? Does it mean the traffic order request has been rejected/not applied?
2. The article says "that it intends to make" does this mean nothing has been officially agreed/allowed/approved/active?
3. it says "Local access will be maintained on Eastern Avenue East between its junctions with Pettits Lane North and Masefield Crescent;" HOWEVER they have NOT. they have not allowed access to Masefield Crescent. It is completely closed. Can one request they move the bollards to allow access as and when one needs access to Masefield Crescent?
4. Is this temporary traffic order currently active?
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TfL have issued a Temporary Traffic Order which lasts until the end of next March:
https://publicnoticeportal.uk/notice/traffic-and-roads/6852736bbfdb7284e792369b
It provides exemptions for certain vehicles authorised by TfL.
TfL cannot issue fines but they can issue penalty notices. Although the process for collection (and the ultimate penalty available) is different, that difference is moot because the principle is the same – the alleged perpetrator is being told he must pay money as punishment for a transgression.
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TFL have put up these signs to say authorised vehicles only...and no other vehicle can use the roundabout whilst TFL carry out works...the works were meant to finish last week Sept 8th....but now TFL say there is no end date and there have been delays....TFL say only busses, black cabs and emergency vehicles can use the roundabout (which is fully functional) otherwise TFL will issue fines... Can TFL issue fines? I have attached photos of the signs...sorry i was in a moving car (not driving) and it was dark
<a href="https://ibb.co/C3VmJx4g"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/MxPZ8qKr/Screenshot-20250912-223233.png" alt="Screenshot-20250912-223233" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://dedupelist.com/'>check duplicate online</a><br />
<a href="https://ibb.co/d0CT5zSh"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/qMqSrPzZ/DSC-4250.jpg" alt="DSC-4250" border="0"></a>
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what would a "ticket" be issued for?
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Well , yes this is a question purely out of interest.. Do you know the answer?
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Is this a question purely out of interest, or have you been issued with some sort of penalty? If so, what?
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Hi all...hope you are all well..
can TFL issue tickets for using Gallows Corner roundabout RM3 8AA whilst the works are happening to replace the flyover? I don't believe they can... but I would like to hear from an expert in Traffic management orders/acts and TFL's rights to issue fines?
I believe TFL need a statute in a traffic management order or act to issue PCNs/tickets...which i doubt they have...