Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: JLA on September 11, 2025, 10:16:26 am
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You are not at appeal.
If you are the registered keeper then the next stage is the Notice to Owner against which you can make reps and, as I said, it is probable that the 50% would be offered even if unsuccessful.
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Anyone, anything?
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Time for paying 50% rate up tomorrow and just not sure what to say regarding the website in NTO appeal if I don't pay, even though i understand what's said in last post reply (thanks H C Anderson)
Is the information given on the council's website regarding the amount to be paid/date etc. covered by the same regulations as the actual pcn?
Has anyone won an appeal on this point?
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You can't do anything formally until you receive the Notice to Owner. The 50% discount is the carrot.
Even if you were to make unsuccessful formal reps, it's more probable than not that the reduced payment would be re-offered.
IMO, yourreps would be as per your original - the second go at asking for their discretion plus...
You would hope that the following argument might assist them in their deliberations, namely, about the council threatening the driver, who also happened to be the owner and therefore has first-hand knowledge of pre-NTO matters, with a grossly inflated penalty without explanation or lawful basis. Read the website page and understand:
The driver has received a letter informing them that their reps were unsuccessful, that a reduced payment would be accepted for the 14-day period specified; that if not paid then after the expiry of the 14-day and 28-day periods, whichever is the later, a NTO would be sent to the owner.
But you do NOT know when, they have 6 months. And you don't know what it contains, this is 'explained in the notice', other than that it would be a demand for £160...and then what??? According to the website £240 would be due on 18 November.
Is this what the NTO would contain?
The NTO would be deemed served 2 working days after issue, unless the owner can show that it was not. So timings are rebuttable.
The threat of £240 WITHOUT A CONTEXT available to the person reading it because the NTO contains the details AND HASN'T BEEN SERVED is IMO grossly improper and could represent successful grounds at any appeal the the adjudicator.
Wait for others.
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Hi, can anyone advise how i'd fight this due to them asking for more than is due on their website, at least i think that's the appeal point as i've only a few days left to pay 50% rate.
Thanks.
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Yes.
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Do you mean the £240 they state on their website?
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Hopefully our member Hippocrates will be along, this is right up their street.
It is wholly improper to seek to coerce a person into paying a penalty which, because they might not even be the liable person anyway*, threatens a penalty at a level previously uncommunicated. Can you point out to us where this level of penalty or even the merest hint of this penalty appears in your PCN?
* Forget you're the owner, you accessed this page because you were the driver i.e. not the liable party in law.
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Sorry, yes i'm the registered keeper/DVLA has my details. Are you saying i still have a chance to fight this? Apologies, not clear on what you mean.
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Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details? If yes then IMO the following applies.
.....Which makes their website even worse as NO penalty has yet been demanded: a PCN is NOT a demand for payment, it is notice to the driver that the owner is liable for a penalty which would be demanded of them via a NTO should the penalty remain unpaid.
The authority may not demand the surcharged penalty until the 'payment period' has expired following service of a NTO.
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Their rejection letter is dated 2/10 so i have until 16/10 to pay reduced rate. No NTO received yet.
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The warning on the website is improper but it begs the question whether a NTO has been issued.
Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
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Thanks for your replies, much appreciated. Guess that must be the reason otherwise makes no sense!
This is all i found on their website, just going to have to pay up.
(https://i.ibb.co/LDrwFKdy/Screenshot-20251008-122938-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LDrwFKdy)
(https://i.ibb.co/pj3BFyqd/Screenshot-20251008-122948-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pj3BFyqd)
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"Due to the tube strike, we had no option but to drive part of the journey and use a TFL bus for the remainder. We drove around the block looking for a disabled parking space to no avail.
We then decided to park as close as possible to the required bus stop and displayed a blue badge on the dashboard."
The only difference between our cases, in my opinion, is the tube strike. They must have taken this into consideration and applied leinancy.
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This is unfortunate but in the absence of a policy for leniency on a first strike - we don't have Westminster's policy if it has one - they can apply discretion as they want.
You could ask them for their policy - I think a council of this magnitude should have one - and remind them of duty of fairness especially for BB holders.
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Appealed the pcn, got refused. But, what I'm finding a bit hard to understand is Westminster's inconsistency on decisions when a fellow poster (Bullit70 on 12th Sept)got a pcn from them in what seems like exactly the same circumstances, used basically same appeal and got the pcn cancelled on 26th Sept. Seems quite unfair given same circumstances for both pcn's, but as Bullit70 hasn't posted their letter cancelling i don't know their reasoning.
Have posted appeal etc. below. I notice that on their website it says pcn at full stage, but still offering discount and it also says it will increase to £240 on 18th Nov. I'm not understanding that part of it either. Is that correct? Is there anything else I can argue or should I just pay up?
All advice very much appreciated.
My appeal:
(https://i.ibb.co/XZc6LGgv/Screenshot-20251003-142451-Samsung-Notes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZc6LGgv)
Council's response:
(https://i.ibb.co/m59QsCwJ/Screenshot-20251003-142509-Samsung-Notes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m59QsCwJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/prwWFWvb/Screenshot-20251003-142516-Samsung-Notes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prwWFWvb)
(https://i.ibb.co/0jGVSr9Q/Screenshot-20251003-142522-Samsung-Notes.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0jGVSr9Q)
Council's website now:
(https://i.ibb.co/DDpQmztF/Screenshot-20251007-102932-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DDpQmztF)
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This is beyond spooky! I also received a 12R PCN from Westminster council
. . .
Any advice/help, gratefully received.
For your case, please start your own thread in the usual way:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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This is beyond spooky! I also received a 12R PCN from Westminster council last night, with a blue badge on the dashboard. I looked up and down the road and surrounding streets for a dedicated disabled bay, to no avail.
I chose to park in the resident bay, as it was close to the bus stop we needed to use. The person with me has severe mobility issues. I was not aware you couldn't park there with a B.B. (not from Westminster) and thought any restrictions would expire after 18.30.
Rossmore Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/SbU8pS9acsWSprZv9?g_st=ac
I was parked where the silver or black car is positioned.
Any advice/help, gratefully received.
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Photos are not a legal requirement within the regulations under the Traffic Management Act; essentially it is who the adjudicator believes based on the civil law test of "on the balance of probabilities". Of course, nowadays, councils get their CEOs to take photos and these are normally viewable on their webpages on quotation of the PCN Number and the car registration mark.
Here I think that balance lies on the council side. Why ? Because the location shown on GSV is of a clearly marked bay, with a sign at one end saying "Resident permit holders only, Mon-Fri 8.30am to 6.30pm. Even if you parked right at the other end of the bay you are under a duty as a motorist parking there, to determine what, if any, restrictions apply to that bay.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/QtEUh7FfH6AFGBep6
Having said all the above, I suggest you submit representations on a non-confrontational basis asking for mitigation, based on both you and your companion not visiting Westminster very often, and didn't realise that BBs were not valide for use in their resident bays. You may get lucky, you may not.
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Don't know if I've done this link right, but I think I parked somewhere along here.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/84D+Warwick+Ave,+London+W9+2PU/@51.5224633,-0.1824015,3a,75y,93.13h,53.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7qBdnb2MCTU37o9vUTVi7g!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D36.507500992916825%26panoid%3D7qBdnb2MCTU37o9vUTVi7g%26yaw%3D93.12933298168645!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x48761aa81302891f:0x3189630fc95cb606!8m2!3d51.5245484!4d-0.186788!16s%2Fg%2F11c5dh6z6f?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkwOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
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Sorry, my mistake.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kVzzVXk6/20250910-155441.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVzzVXk6)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nC2W41yt/20250910-155424.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nC2W41yt)
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Please post both sides of ther unredacted PCN and a GSV link to the location.
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Hi all, would be grateful for any help. PCN issued 8/9/25, the driver did park in a residents bay and put a blue disabled badge (which belonged to a friend he was with) on the dash. The driver wasn't aware that the blue badge scheme did not operate in Westminster and the friend also said they didn't realise that was the case as they rarely travelled to that borough. The driver realises that argument is very likely a non starter with Westminster, but just wondered if the four photo's shown on their website fail to show the car parked in contravention as they don't show any sign showing the type of bay or restriction near or away from the car and just show the car that could be parked anywhere really.
Any chance there's a valid point of appeal here?
Thanks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xpwq2RsC/Screenshot-20250910-163946-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Xpwq2RsC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PCWDwLg0/Screenshot-20250910-163854-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PCWDwLg0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZBBK6290/Screenshot-20250910-163923-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBBK6290)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mcRb6jd2/Screenshot-20250910-163809-Samsung-Internet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mcRb6jd2)