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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: neverpaying on September 10, 2025, 12:06:56 pm

Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on June 10, 2026, 02:33:54 pm
I didn't realise it was your case. Have edited your name out.

I think some adjudicators are rather out of their depth with these TTO cases.

Apart from TTO issues I think the presence of that one sign was not sufficient no matter what it was.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on June 10, 2026, 02:22:35 pm
This case from yesterday is indicative of the mess Newham makes of these TTOs.

-

Yes it seems, from reading the assessment, that the adjudicator would have accepted more than one of my points. Although, it was unexpected that she tried to read the TTO from the CEO's photographs even if it wasn't submitted under evidence. I also struggled to read it from that during the hearing.

Though I know it is not binding, it was also interesting to see that there was a valid concern in the time between the sign being erected and the penalty charge being issued.


Thank you to @tincombe and yourself for your help.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on June 10, 2026, 12:24:31 pm
Outcome. 

--------



Case reference 2260024085
Appellant xxxxxx
Authority London Borough of Newham
VRM GL11PXM
PCN Details
PCN PN23465850
Contravention date 02 Sep 2025
Contravention time 09:36:00
Contravention location Credon Road
Penalty amount GBP 160.00
Contravention Parked restricted street during prescribed hours
Referral date -
Decision Date 09 Jun 2026
Adjudicator Chez Cotton
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.

Reasons
Introduction


1. The Appellant challenges a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued for being parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (Code 01).

2. This appeal was scheduled as an online hearing at which the Appellant appeared in person. The Enforcement Authority (EA) was not due to attend but instead provided their evidence electronically.

The Appellant’s case


3. The Appellant’s case is that the PCN has been issued without a statutory basis underpinning it, since the Traffic Management Order does not support the restriction set out on the signage by the EA.

4. Further, the EA refer to a ‘suspension’ in the evidence presented, whereas the PCN is issued for a ‘waiting’ restriction.

5. Further, the signage in place in the relevant road is inadequate and does not allow a reasonably careful motorist to see the restriction in place and avoid a contravention.

6. Further, there was no adequate warning of any suspension, and the Appellant’s vehicle was parked in advance of the suspension signage being put in place.

7. In these circumstances the Appellant asks for the PCN to be cancelled.

Enforcement Authority’s Case


8. The Enforcement Authority (EA) rely on photographic evidence to show the contravention occurred. Photographs of the signage has been provided. The EA says this shows the restriction is signed and clear, and, further, enforceable under a valid Traffic Management Order (TMO), a copy of which is provided.

9. The EA has considered the Appellant's representations. The EA state ‘A Temporary Traffic Order (TTO) was in force at the location on the date of the contravention. The purpose and effect of the order was to prohibit waiting within the affected length of highway during the relevant period.’

10. The EA state the use of the word ‘suspension’ does not alter the legal nature of the restriction created by the order, or invalidate the contravention alleged.

11. The EA add, ‘The TTO provides that the restriction applies when appropriate prescribed traffic signs are placed. On the date of enforcement, temporary traffic signage was in situ, as evidenced by the CEO photographs. The signage clearly conveyed: • that the previous parking provision was not available, and • the hours during which waiting was prohibited (8am–6pm). The authority contends that the signage was clear, visible, and adequate to inform a reasonably diligent motorist of the restriction in force. Temporary traffic orders commonly operate for defined periods rather than “at any time”, and the inclusion of operational hours on the sign does not invalidate the restriction or render the signage inappropriate.’

12. The EA does not wish to exercise their discretion.

13. The EA maintain the PCN was correctly issued, there was no procedural impropriety and the contravention occurred.

Findings and Conclusion

14. I have considered all materials presented by both parties. Although each piece of evidence is not specifically referred to, it has contributed to, and informed, the decision I have made.

15. I found the Appellant credible and measured in his evidence.

16. In the first instance it is for the EA to establish a prima facie case, including the statutory basis on which any penalty can be enforced. The

17. Based on the photographic evidence footage provided, and additional evidential materials from the EA, I am satisfied the Appellant’s vehicle was in the relevant location, at the relevant time. I am further satisfied that if a contravention has occurred, it is enforceable by way of a valid Traffic Management Order, which I have seen.

18. The question I must decide relates to whether the signage in place was substantially compliant, clear and adequate. In this respect the Public Notice attached to the Case Summary in Evidence B states at paragraph 1,

‘The NEWHAM LONDON BOROUGH COUNCIL hereby gives notice that to allow London Borough Newham Green Space and its contractors, to carry out works on or near the road; it made an Order the general effect of which will be to close the roads listed in Schedule 1 below.’

19. I am unable to consider the Temporary Prohibition of Traffic Order itself, since this is provided by way of a photograph of an A4 sheet, with dense type writing, included in Evidence C. If I enlarge it to a size I can read, it becomes illegible. I am therefore unable to satisfy myself that there is a statutory basis for the EA to enforce a PCN, and on balance. I allow the appeal on this basis.

20. However, for completeness, I note the Public Notice sets out that the roads listed will be closed. There is no reference to parking bays being suspended, or of any suspension time.

21. Further, if a suspension of the relevant bay was supported by a temporary TMO, the EA has provided no evidence of advance warning, or any evidence of what vehicles were parked at the relevant location in advance of any warning notices being erected. On balance, I accept the Appellant’s vehicle was parked in advance of any warning notice being placed, and I would allow an appeal on this basis. (Although there is no requirement for this, since I find the EA has not established the statutory basis for enforcing a penalty in any event).

22. For these reasons I find a contravention did not occur and the PCN has not been validly issued.


Decision

23. The appeal is allowed.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: tincombe on June 08, 2026, 05:25:01 pm
OP, the fundamental point is this which underpins all civil enforcement:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/7

See para. 3(2)(b)(i): the authority claim you breached the provisions of a traffic order whereby they were empowered to issue a PCN.

But they have no evidence to this effect and therefore because the adjudication system is creaking and an adjudicator won't adjourn for the authority to get its act together they should allow the appeal.

Signs are irrelevant because their role is to convey via traffic signs, the meaning of which a driver is presumed to know by virtue of holding a licence, provisions in an order.

No order in evidence = no case.

And as I remember, the TTO merely amended a principal order(and it's this amendment which they claim was breached) therefore both should be in evidence. But instead you appear to have neither.

Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on June 08, 2026, 04:38:40 pm
Make a list of the issues to raise with the adjudicator.

What often happens is they see an obvious reason to allow the appeal and then don't bother with other issues but it's important to be prepared with them all just in case.

You don't have to file anything about their evidence pack now but I would draw attention to the mistake from the off.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on June 08, 2026, 04:29:57 pm
A very, very big mistake!

I have my hearing tomorrow, do I have to submit anything as counter or as evidence, or do I just mention it during the meeting?

Also to note that they do have the CEO's photograph of the sign with the printed out TTO. Does the defence still hold that "the TTO which is the basis for the contravention has not been supplied"?
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: tincombe on June 06, 2026, 08:15:14 am
A very, very big mistake!
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on June 05, 2026, 10:47:13 pm
?

This Order does not restrict or change parking arrangements.

'..the general effect of which will be to close the roads listed in Schedule 1 below'.

Nothing to do with parking, let alone introducing waiting restrictions.

Ha yes, I completely missed that it was different to the printed one on the sign. In their evidence pack, this is the only Order they have attached, so it seems to be a mistake on their part.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: tincombe on June 05, 2026, 02:00:22 pm
?

This Order does not restrict or change parking arrangements.

'..the general effect of which will be to close the roads listed in Schedule 1 below'.

Nothing to do with parking, let alone introducing waiting restrictions.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on June 05, 2026, 01:51:02 pm
Pl post the TTMO and the core TMO* which are included in their evidence pack as well as the photo(s) of the signage in the pack.

*- this is important because as far as I can tell from previous posts the TTMO refers to the core Order as regards its scope and we therefore need to see how this is framed and how it deals with 'Traffic Signs'.

As regards their reference to 'semantic distinction', the law thinks otherwise:


The Road Traffic (Temporary Restrictions) Procedure Regulations 1992

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/contents/made


In their 54 page PDF that they have submitted, this is the only TTMO that I can see, which is what was printed and attached to the yellow sign. It is also the only piece of evidence categorised under "Evidence Type B: Case Summary & Traffic Management Order"

Am I right in thinking that this actually is the TTMO and they have not provided the core TMO - is this something I can use against them?


(https://i.ibb.co/VpcJC30v/TMO1.png)
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: tincombe on June 04, 2026, 12:11:34 pm
Pl post the TTMO and the core TMO* which are included in their evidence pack as well as the photo(s) of the signage in the pack.

*- this is important because as far as I can tell from previous posts the TTMO refers to the core Order as regards its scope and we therefore need to see how this is framed and how it deals with 'Traffic Signs'.

As regards their reference to 'semantic distinction', the law thinks otherwise:


The Road Traffic (Temporary Restrictions) Procedure Regulations 1992

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/contents/made
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on June 03, 2026, 04:37:13 pm
Thank you for the case reference, I will include this in my evidence.

Regarding the relative position of the sign, I shared a map I made earlier, sharing again now:

There was no suspended sign in front of me:

(https://i.ibb.co/xtxcKbSb/MAP.jpg)
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on June 03, 2026, 01:14:40 pm
The simple fact is, was there a sign on the nearest bay sign to you.

Also the use of temporary traffic orders in place of properly signed bay suspensions is often defective in signage and wording.

This case gives clues on signing.

--------

Case reference   225056061A
Appellant   Janet Chute
Authority   London Borough of Waltham Forest
VRM   LB02NTU
   
PCN Details
PCN   FR65860282
Contravention date   03 Jul 2025
Contravention time   07:36:00
Contravention location   Guernsey Road
Penalty amount   GBP 160.00
Contravention   Parked or loading/unloading during a loading ban
   
Referral date   -
   
Decision Date   01 Apr 2026
Adjudicator   Edward Houghton
Appeal decision   Appeal allowed
Direction   cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons   The Appellant did not attend the hearing. Her case is essentially that the signage was not clear and that in fact no works took place. I am satisfied by the Council’s reply as to the latter point.
Although the Council refers to the “suspension” of the bay it states” A Temporary Traffic Order was issued which applied to the whole of the road and these restrictions override pre-existing restrictions for the duration of the suspension.” This follows the normal practice in gully cleaning cases and is consistent with the sign used , which is not the three-sided sign normally authorised by the DfT for the indication of suspensions, but the rondel used for signs indicating a temporary waiting restriction. The white part of the sign is illegible but the amount of text on it is also consistent with a Temporary Traffic Order, as is the contravention for which the PCN was issued.
As this is therefore, as I find, a case of the imposition of a Temporary Order rather than the exercise of powers of suspension, in the absence of that Order I am unable to be satisfied that a contravention is made out.
Quote apart from these technical issues, important though they are , I would not have been satisfied that the temporary restriction was adequately drawn to the Appellant’s attention. In the case of temporary waiting restrictions where cones are not used it is particularly important that there are sufficient signs in place to make it very clear to the motorist that the normal parking arrangements do not apply. The single sign shown in the CEO’s photographs is not only mostly illegible but cannot be seen clearly in any of the photographs showing the vehicle.
As on the evidence I am unable to be satisfied a restriction was lawfully in force or that it was clearly signed the Appeal must be allowed.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on June 03, 2026, 01:04:30 pm
My tribunal appeal is next Tuesday. @H C Andersen was most helpful in collecting ideas and drafting an appeal. It seems they are no longer active on this forum.

I am happy to go on my own to this virtual meeting. I am unsure as to how I can strengthen my points, while addressing/undermining/countering their points listed above.

There was an earlier point by @stamfordman "If you parked and walked forward from the car the nearest parking sign does not appear to have had a temp sign. And in any case it seems to have been the nearest sign - numerous tribunal appeals have been won on this." - I will include this as well
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on May 30, 2026, 11:15:10 am
Received this email declaring that LBN will be contesting this at the tribunal:

It seems their core point is this:
Quote
The appellant’s core argument amounts to a semantic
distinction between suspension terminology and waiting restrictions. This does not
affect the legality of the restriction, nor the correctness of the contravention issued.






London Tribunals have recently informed London Borough of Newham (LBN) of your application
to appeal the decision to reject your representations relating to the above mentioned Penalty
Charge Notice(s). Following a review of your original representation(s), the Notice of Rejection
letter(s) and all of the subsequent documentation that you have provided, London Borough of
Newham wish to contest this appeal.
...

We the London Borough of Newham submit that Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)
PN23465850 was correctly issued and served. We can also confirm that the PCN
complies with The Traffic Management Act 2004.

...

The location hosted suspension stating “Tuesday 2nd September 2025 - Tuesday 2nd
September 2025 8am – 4pm Credon Road E13 (All spaces outside 67 Credon Road
to outside 77 Credon Road) for Tree works.

Authority’s position:
The contravention occurred and the PCN was correctly issued.

Temporary Traffic Order and Restriction
A Temporary Traffic Order (TTO) was in force at the location on the date of the
contravention. The purpose and effect of the order was to prohibit waiting within
the affected length of highway during the relevant period.
While the appellant refers to the use of the term “suspension” within
correspondence, the legal effect of the TTO was to remove the parking place and
impose a waiting restriction. Once a parking place is suspended or removed under
a temporary order, the area ceases to operate as a parking place for the duration of
the order and becomes subject to a waiting prohibition. Enforcement is therefore
correctly undertaken under contravention code 01.
The descriptive term “suspension” is commonly used to explain the effect of a
temporary restriction to motorists, but this does not alter the legal nature of the
restriction created by the order nor invalidate the contravention alleged.

Signage and Prescribed Hours
The TTO provides that the restriction applies when appropriate prescribed traffic
signs are placed. On the date of enforcement, temporary traffic signage was in
situ, as evidenced by the CEO photographs.
The signage clearly conveyed:
• that the previous parking provision was not available, and
• the hours during which waiting was prohibited (8am–6pm).
The authority contends that the signage was clear, visible, and adequate to inform
a reasonably diligent motorist of the restriction in force. Temporary traffic orders
commonly operate for defined periods rather than “at any time”, and the inclusion of
operational hours on the sign does not invalidate the restriction or render the signage
inappropriate.
The appellant has not demonstrated that the signage failed to comply with the Traffic
Signs Regulations or that it was misleading. The mere absence of identical wording
between the order and the sign does not negate enforceability where the restriction
is clearly conveyed.

Consideration of Representations
The authority considered the appellant’s informal and formal representations and
responded accordingly. The appellant’s core argument amounts to a semantic
distinction between suspension terminology and waiting restrictions. This does not
affect the legality of the restriction, nor the correctness of the contravention issued.
The authority was satisfied, at both stages, that:
• a valid TTO was in force,
• appropriate signage was displayed, and
• the vehicle was parked in contravention of the temporary waiting restriction.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: taffer87 on January 16, 2026, 01:05:13 pm
sorry i sent in wrong thread
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on January 12, 2026, 08:54:31 pm
I will be submitting this shortly as evidence for my appeal.

"The PCN gives a contravention of "01a Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (temporary traffic order)" which I dispute happened. In support, I refer to the authority's letters dated 1st October 2025 rejecting my informal representations, in particular the following:

Quoting verbatim from that letter 'When a parking place is suspended, the suspension remains in force whilst the suspension sign is in place. You must not use a suspended parking space to park, wait, load or unload while the suspension is in force, even if it appears there is no work being carried out. Every effort is made to bring suspensions to the attention of residents/businesses in the area by: Displaying a sign showing the proposed suspension dates in advance before the suspension occurs"

This clearly shows that the authority consider that the parking place was simply suspended, indeed this word and its derivatives occurs no less than 8 times in just these two short paragraphs. And yet despite this, the PCN refers to the breach of a 'waiting' restriction.

The issue here is therefore whether the imposition of a waiting restriction within these parking places was made lawfully, properly implemented as regards notice and conveyed adequately to motorists by traffic signs. For the reasons set out in both my informal and formal representations which should be read alongside these and for the reasons set out above I contend that the alleged contravention did not occur.

From the picture taken by the CEO, the sign states 8am-6pm; the order states that the amended restriction applies only if the appropriate prescribed traffic signs are placed, the order implies that the restriction is "at any time" (there is no reference to 8am-6pm), therefore "appropriate traffic signs" have not been placed, therefore the order has not been implemented correctly and no penalties may be demanded because the specific contravention has not occurred.

The authority has twice failed to consider this substantive point that I have raised at both stages of the informal representations and the formal representations when the NtO was served.

I thank you for your consideration."
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on January 08, 2026, 12:17:48 pm
I notice that on this forum there is a similar case on Tarling Road. I am trying to see if there is anything to take from that one to this one. Failing that, and without any further replies to this thread, I will likely lodge an appeal before the time runs out on Monday 12/01, using a similar approach to the rejected in/formal representations
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on January 05, 2026, 04:04:59 pm
Is there a way for me to view the appeal I submitted at the NtO stage?
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on January 02, 2026, 04:33:04 pm
They have once again ignored the material point about whether this was a waiting restriction contravention or a suspended parking bay. I am sorry I forgot to save the appeal I submitted at the NtO stage, but it is 90% the same as the representation, so they have ignored that point twice now.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on January 02, 2026, 04:18:32 pm
Happy new year all.

I have been slow catching up with my letters and one of which was this NoR received on the 15th Dec. Their correspondence is a mess, not least with typos everywhere and poor image formatting covering critical information. And they have repeated their points from the representations stage.

(https://i.ibb.co/vC4nBQSK/No-R-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/DHTqP9GM/No-R-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/rKBTt9x9/No-R-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSSMthYC/No-R-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: H C Andersen on November 24, 2025, 03:19:51 pm
Date of NTO and date of posting - 28 October.

Deemed served 30th which is Day 1 of of 28, the last day being 26th.

I would submit that the contravention did not occur.

The PCN gives a contravention of ********* which I dispute happened. In support, I refer to the authority's letter dated *** rejecting my informal representations, in particular the following:

Quote verbatim from 'When a parking place is suspended ..to ...before the suspension occurs.'

This clearly shows that the authority consider that the parking place was simply suspended, indeed this word and its derivatives occurs no less than 8 times in just these two short paragraphs. And yet despite this, the PCN refers to the breach of a 'waiting' restriction.

The issue here is therefore whether the imposition of a waiting restriction within these parking places was made lawfully, properly implemented as regards notice and conveyed adequately to motorists by traffic signs. For the reasons set out in my informal representations which should be read alongside these and for the reasons set out above I contend that the alleged contravention did not occur.

Some thoughts.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on November 24, 2025, 12:15:32 pm
I guess I'll just do that then
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on November 21, 2025, 08:24:31 pm
Yes sorry, here's the NTO.

(https://i.ibb.co/zH6wkWby/IMG-20251121-201840.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/k2nMcRB3/pic-20251121201643-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: H C Andersen on November 21, 2025, 02:48:28 pm
Pl post the NTO, leave in everything except your personal details.

Have you now notified DVLA of your change of address?

Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on November 21, 2025, 12:56:46 pm
NTO has been received now, although I am getting to it with only a few days spare because of my change in address.

Should I more or less re-submit the argument in the representations as part of my appeal? Or do I need to use additional ammunition at this stage?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: H C Andersen on October 08, 2025, 08:01:20 pm
It's not a NOR(Notice of Rejection), it's a rejection of informal reps by the recipient of the PCN.

Their response is incoherent, grammatically improper, wrong in law and just nonsense.

No-one cares a ***k about suspended bays, this is NOT the suspension of a parking bay - or if it is then it's the WRONG contravention - it's the suspension of a statutory provision(a parking place) and the substitution of a NO WAITING restriction.

No point rehearsing all the nonsense in their letter, just wait for the NTO. 
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on October 08, 2025, 05:54:50 pm
Any thoughts on the notice period of the signs?
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on October 06, 2025, 03:40:49 pm
NoR received: Is 3 days really enough notice for the signs?

(https://i.ibb.co/7dCJKcJn/NoR-1.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSxTyWSV/NoR-2.png)



Representation that was rejected:

Quote
The contravention did not occur for the following reasons:

The Temporary Traffic Regulation Order (TTRO) amends the Newham (Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 2011 to apply Article 5(1) with "prescribed hours were at any time." As no existing "at any time" restriction exists on this road, the signs erected do not support the imposition of a temporary suspension. The signage fails to establish a lawful temporary parking restriction as required by the Traffic Signs Regulations. A TTRO also appears inappropriate for a partial bay suspension.

Walking forward from my vehicle, the nearest parking sign displayed no temporary suspension notice. My vehicle was positioned at the boundary of the alleged suspension area with no sign ahead indicating that the vehicle was parked in a suspended zone. Tribunal precedent requires suspension signs be visible from the vehicle's position.

The PCN should be cancelled as the alleged contravention did not occur.

If it is not cancelled, the following should be provided:
- Date/time suspension signs were installed
- Precise locations of all suspension signs
- Whether my vehicle was present within the suspension area when signs were installed
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on September 15, 2025, 05:46:58 pm
Why did you park there. If you parked and walked forward from the car the nearest parking sign does not appear to have had a temp sign. And in any case it seems to have been the nearest sign - numerous tribunal appeals have been won on this.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: H C Andersen on September 15, 2025, 05:16:33 pm
No, the 'no waiting sign' states 8am-6pm; the order states that the amended restriction applies only if the appropriate prescribed traffic signs are placed, the order implies that the restriction is 'at any time' (there's no reference to 8am-6pm), therefore 'appropriate traffic signs' have not been placed, therefore the order has not been implemented correctly and no penalties may be demanded.


But just expect their analysis to skim the surface with 'sign states 8-6 therefore it's 8-6', totally ignoring the substantive issue.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 15, 2025, 03:46:37 pm
The signs aren't 'suspension' signs, as in suspending a parking place, they are supposed to be 'appropriate traffic signs displayed in accordance with the [Traffic Signs etc] regulations' - see para. 2 of the TTRO.

The TTRO amends the provisions of the principal order, The Newham(Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 2011. This is amended 'as if for the Road purposes of the application of Article 5(1)[to the streets listed in the Schedule of the temporary order] ..the prescribed hours were at any time'.

There is no 'at any time restriction' in the road(preventing parking and waiting), so have the correct signs been erected?

IMO, there is nothing in what's written on the sign or which could be deduced therefrom which supports the imposition of a temporary as opposed to 'at any time' waiting and loading restriction in the specified day.

IMO, make sure you add contravention did not occur to your reps. And this is not based on guesswork, it's simply reading their order which is displayed on the board.

Thank you for the reply.

To clarify, the TTRO states that the 2011 order is amended so that the prescribed hours are 24 hours, instead of the 8am-6pm that they currently are. And we are questioning whether this has been adequately represented in the signs that were erected?
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: H C Andersen on September 15, 2025, 12:25:19 pm
The signs aren't 'suspension' signs, as in suspending a parking place, they are supposed to be 'appropriate traffic signs displayed in accordance with the [Traffic Signs etc] regulations' - see para. 2 of the TTRO.

The TTRO amends the provisions of the principal order, The Newham(Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 2011. This is amended 'as if for the Road purposes of the application of Article 5(1)[to the streets listed in the Schedule of the temporary order] ..the prescribed hours were at any time'.

There is no 'at any time restriction' in the road(preventing parking and waiting), so have the correct signs been erected?

IMO, there is nothing in what's written on the sign or which could be deduced therefrom which supports the imposition of a temporary as opposed to 'at any time' waiting and loading restriction on the specified day.

IMO, make sure you add contravention did not occur to your reps. And this is not based on guesswork, it's simply reading their order which is displayed on the board.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 15, 2025, 11:26:57 am
So where is this sign relative to where your car was.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fF8ZKm9hq1xiBmyy6

I've drawn up a map to help:

(https://i.imgur.com/u92dPz8.jpeg)
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on September 15, 2025, 10:48:09 am
So where is this sign relative to where your car was.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/fF8ZKm9hq1xiBmyy6
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: Enceladus on September 15, 2025, 10:37:23 am
Ask for the date that the signs were installed and their locations. And ask them was your car recorded as being parked within the suspension area when the signs were installed.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 15, 2025, 10:26:28 am
I need to submit something for representations. I will probably contest the visibility of the sign, the proximity of it to the suspended bays, and the (likely) short notice of installation before it came into effect.

Should I also question the use of a temporary traffic order? It's unlikely I get any traction with any of these points, but I suppose the purpose is to get to the appeal stage.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 11, 2025, 02:02:59 pm
What is the Google Maps location of where your car was.

Here it is:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Kgy8f2SZEUzZyBVE8
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on September 11, 2025, 01:20:42 pm
What is the Google Maps location of where your car was.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 11, 2025, 01:00:25 pm
Is the sign ahead in a different bay?

There's a pic of the order I posted - just about readable.

The sign that is behind my car in the pictures is in the same "bay", the whole street is part of the same zone. I have a resident permit for that zone.

Is there a way to see when that sign was installed? Do they have to give a minimum amount of notice?
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on September 10, 2025, 04:56:44 pm
Is the sign ahead in a different bay?

There's a pic of the order I posted - just about readable.
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 10, 2025, 04:50:01 pm
Thank you for the pictures, I apologise for forgetting to add them myself.

I parked there either the 30/08 (Sat) or 31/08 (Sun). PCN was on 02/09 (Tue).

I don't believe there was a sign ahead of my car as my car was right on the boundary of which spaces were suspended.

I have looked at some other posts and have seen that a copy of the temporary traffic order can only be obtained by email, is that right? So it's not something I will have before I make my representations
Title: Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: stamfordman on September 10, 2025, 04:03:56 pm
Here are some of the pics.

When did you park there?

Is there a nearer parking sign just ahead of your car?

Using a temp traffic order doesn't seem right for a partial bay suspension.

(https://i.ibb.co/Hpq7HXXf/n7.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wNPBmsMW/n6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y55jqnt/n5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/YB9zynB0/n4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xrw1pSXc/n3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/LdppyDwh/n2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/3mgCHJTY/n1.jpg)
Title: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see the temporary traffic order?
Post by: neverpaying on September 10, 2025, 12:06:56 pm
Hello all,

I received this PCN in my windshield for parking in a street with a temporary parking restriction.

As always with this council, they put up one sign somewhere on the road (no wings of course), and expect road users check every day whether there is a new restriction.

But, I suppose this is their right.

However, I would like to see the temporary traffic order to see if the signs were erected with enough notice. How may I do that?

PCN: (image here) (https://i.imgur.com/9Jt6rwn.jpeg)
Location: 0s Hse 69
Contravention code: 01a Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (temporary traffic order)
Date of contravention: 02/09/2025

14 days lapses on 16/09?