Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: neverpaying on September 10, 2025, 12:06:56 pm
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sorry i sent in wrong thread
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I will be submitting this shortly as evidence for my appeal.
"The PCN gives a contravention of "01a Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (temporary traffic order)" which I dispute happened. In support, I refer to the authority's letters dated 1st October 2025 rejecting my informal representations, in particular the following:
Quoting verbatim from that letter 'When a parking place is suspended, the suspension remains in force whilst the suspension sign is in place. You must not use a suspended parking space to park, wait, load or unload while the suspension is in force, even if it appears there is no work being carried out. Every effort is made to bring suspensions to the attention of residents/businesses in the area by: Displaying a sign showing the proposed suspension dates in advance before the suspension occurs"
This clearly shows that the authority consider that the parking place was simply suspended, indeed this word and its derivatives occurs no less than 8 times in just these two short paragraphs. And yet despite this, the PCN refers to the breach of a 'waiting' restriction.
The issue here is therefore whether the imposition of a waiting restriction within these parking places was made lawfully, properly implemented as regards notice and conveyed adequately to motorists by traffic signs. For the reasons set out in both my informal and formal representations which should be read alongside these and for the reasons set out above I contend that the alleged contravention did not occur.
From the picture taken by the CEO, the sign states 8am-6pm; the order states that the amended restriction applies only if the appropriate prescribed traffic signs are placed, the order implies that the restriction is "at any time" (there is no reference to 8am-6pm), therefore "appropriate traffic signs" have not been placed, therefore the order has not been implemented correctly and no penalties may be demanded because the specific contravention has not occurred.
The authority has twice failed to consider this substantive point that I have raised at both stages of the informal representations and the formal representations when the NtO was served.
I thank you for your consideration."
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I notice that on this forum there is a similar case on Tarling Road. I am trying to see if there is anything to take from that one to this one. Failing that, and without any further replies to this thread, I will likely lodge an appeal before the time runs out on Monday 12/01, using a similar approach to the rejected in/formal representations
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Is there a way for me to view the appeal I submitted at the NtO stage?
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They have once again ignored the material point about whether this was a waiting restriction contravention or a suspended parking bay. I am sorry I forgot to save the appeal I submitted at the NtO stage, but it is 90% the same as the representation, so they have ignored that point twice now.
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Happy new year all.
I have been slow catching up with my letters and one of which was this NoR received on the 15th Dec. Their correspondence is a mess, not least with typos everywhere and poor image formatting covering critical information. And they have repeated their points from the representations stage.
(https://i.ibb.co/vC4nBQSK/No-R-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/DHTqP9GM/No-R-2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/rKBTt9x9/No-R-3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSSMthYC/No-R-4.jpg)
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Date of NTO and date of posting - 28 October.
Deemed served 30th which is Day 1 of of 28, the last day being 26th.
I would submit that the contravention did not occur.
The PCN gives a contravention of ********* which I dispute happened. In support, I refer to the authority's letter dated *** rejecting my informal representations, in particular the following:
Quote verbatim from 'When a parking place is suspended ..to ...before the suspension occurs.'
This clearly shows that the authority consider that the parking place was simply suspended, indeed this word and its derivatives occurs no less than 8 times in just these two short paragraphs. And yet despite this, the PCN refers to the breach of a 'waiting' restriction.
The issue here is therefore whether the imposition of a waiting restriction within these parking places was made lawfully, properly implemented as regards notice and conveyed adequately to motorists by traffic signs. For the reasons set out in my informal representations which should be read alongside these and for the reasons set out above I contend that the alleged contravention did not occur.
Some thoughts.
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I guess I'll just do that then
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Yes sorry, here's the NTO.
(https://i.ibb.co/zH6wkWby/IMG-20251121-201840.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/k2nMcRB3/pic-20251121201643-1.jpg)
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Pl post the NTO, leave in everything except your personal details.
Have you now notified DVLA of your change of address?
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NTO has been received now, although I am getting to it with only a few days spare because of my change in address.
Should I more or less re-submit the argument in the representations as part of my appeal? Or do I need to use additional ammunition at this stage?
Thank you.
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It's not a NOR(Notice of Rejection), it's a rejection of informal reps by the recipient of the PCN.
Their response is incoherent, grammatically improper, wrong in law and just nonsense.
No-one cares a ***k about suspended bays, this is NOT the suspension of a parking bay - or if it is then it's the WRONG contravention - it's the suspension of a statutory provision(a parking place) and the substitution of a NO WAITING restriction.
No point rehearsing all the nonsense in their letter, just wait for the NTO.
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Any thoughts on the notice period of the signs?
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NoR received: Is 3 days really enough notice for the signs?
(https://i.ibb.co/7dCJKcJn/NoR-1.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSxTyWSV/NoR-2.png)
Representation that was rejected:
The contravention did not occur for the following reasons:
The Temporary Traffic Regulation Order (TTRO) amends the Newham (Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 2011 to apply Article 5(1) with "prescribed hours were at any time." As no existing "at any time" restriction exists on this road, the signs erected do not support the imposition of a temporary suspension. The signage fails to establish a lawful temporary parking restriction as required by the Traffic Signs Regulations. A TTRO also appears inappropriate for a partial bay suspension.
Walking forward from my vehicle, the nearest parking sign displayed no temporary suspension notice. My vehicle was positioned at the boundary of the alleged suspension area with no sign ahead indicating that the vehicle was parked in a suspended zone. Tribunal precedent requires suspension signs be visible from the vehicle's position.
The PCN should be cancelled as the alleged contravention did not occur.
If it is not cancelled, the following should be provided:
- Date/time suspension signs were installed
- Precise locations of all suspension signs
- Whether my vehicle was present within the suspension area when signs were installed
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Why did you park there. If you parked and walked forward from the car the nearest parking sign does not appear to have had a temp sign. And in any case it seems to have been the nearest sign - numerous tribunal appeals have been won on this.
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No, the 'no waiting sign' states 8am-6pm; the order states that the amended restriction applies only if the appropriate prescribed traffic signs are placed, the order implies that the restriction is 'at any time' (there's no reference to 8am-6pm), therefore 'appropriate traffic signs' have not been placed, therefore the order has not been implemented correctly and no penalties may be demanded.
But just expect their analysis to skim the surface with 'sign states 8-6 therefore it's 8-6', totally ignoring the substantive issue.
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The signs aren't 'suspension' signs, as in suspending a parking place, they are supposed to be 'appropriate traffic signs displayed in accordance with the [Traffic Signs etc] regulations' - see para. 2 of the TTRO.
The TTRO amends the provisions of the principal order, The Newham(Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 2011. This is amended 'as if for the Road purposes of the application of Article 5(1)[to the streets listed in the Schedule of the temporary order] ..the prescribed hours were at any time'.
There is no 'at any time restriction' in the road(preventing parking and waiting), so have the correct signs been erected?
IMO, there is nothing in what's written on the sign or which could be deduced therefrom which supports the imposition of a temporary as opposed to 'at any time' waiting and loading restriction in the specified day.
IMO, make sure you add contravention did not occur to your reps. And this is not based on guesswork, it's simply reading their order which is displayed on the board.
Thank you for the reply.
To clarify, the TTRO states that the 2011 order is amended so that the prescribed hours are 24 hours, instead of the 8am-6pm that they currently are. And we are questioning whether this has been adequately represented in the signs that were erected?
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The signs aren't 'suspension' signs, as in suspending a parking place, they are supposed to be 'appropriate traffic signs displayed in accordance with the [Traffic Signs etc] regulations' - see para. 2 of the TTRO.
The TTRO amends the provisions of the principal order, The Newham(Waiting and Loading Restriction) Order 2011. This is amended 'as if for the Road purposes of the application of Article 5(1)[to the streets listed in the Schedule of the temporary order] ..the prescribed hours were at any time'.
There is no 'at any time restriction' in the road(preventing parking and waiting), so have the correct signs been erected?
IMO, there is nothing in what's written on the sign or which could be deduced therefrom which supports the imposition of a temporary as opposed to 'at any time' waiting and loading restriction on the specified day.
IMO, make sure you add contravention did not occur to your reps. And this is not based on guesswork, it's simply reading their order which is displayed on the board.
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So where is this sign relative to where your car was.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fF8ZKm9hq1xiBmyy6
I've drawn up a map to help:
(https://i.imgur.com/u92dPz8.jpeg)
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So where is this sign relative to where your car was.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fF8ZKm9hq1xiBmyy6
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Ask for the date that the signs were installed and their locations. And ask them was your car recorded as being parked within the suspension area when the signs were installed.
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I need to submit something for representations. I will probably contest the visibility of the sign, the proximity of it to the suspended bays, and the (likely) short notice of installation before it came into effect.
Should I also question the use of a temporary traffic order? It's unlikely I get any traction with any of these points, but I suppose the purpose is to get to the appeal stage.
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What is the Google Maps location of where your car was.
Here it is:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Kgy8f2SZEUzZyBVE8
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What is the Google Maps location of where your car was.
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Is the sign ahead in a different bay?
There's a pic of the order I posted - just about readable.
The sign that is behind my car in the pictures is in the same "bay", the whole street is part of the same zone. I have a resident permit for that zone.
Is there a way to see when that sign was installed? Do they have to give a minimum amount of notice?
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Is the sign ahead in a different bay?
There's a pic of the order I posted - just about readable.
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Thank you for the pictures, I apologise for forgetting to add them myself.
I parked there either the 30/08 (Sat) or 31/08 (Sun). PCN was on 02/09 (Tue).
I don't believe there was a sign ahead of my car as my car was right on the boundary of which spaces were suspended.
I have looked at some other posts and have seen that a copy of the temporary traffic order can only be obtained by email, is that right? So it's not something I will have before I make my representations
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Here are some of the pics.
When did you park there?
Is there a nearer parking sign just ahead of your car?
Using a temp traffic order doesn't seem right for a partial bay suspension.
(https://i.ibb.co/Hpq7HXXf/n7.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wNPBmsMW/n6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y55jqnt/n5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/YB9zynB0/n4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xrw1pSXc/n3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/LdppyDwh/n2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/3mgCHJTY/n1.jpg)
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Hello all,
I received this PCN in my windshield for parking in a street with a temporary parking restriction.
As always with this council, they put up one sign somewhere on the road (no wings of course), and expect road users check every day whether there is a new restriction.
But, I suppose this is their right.
However, I would like to see the temporary traffic order to see if the signs were erected with enough notice. How may I do that?
PCN: (image here) (https://i.imgur.com/9Jt6rwn.jpeg)
Location: 0s Hse 69
Contravention code: 01a Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (temporary traffic order)
Date of contravention: 02/09/2025
14 days lapses on 16/09?