Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: jeezy on October 26, 2023, 10:39:47 am

Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on December 15, 2023, 11:05:28 pm
@jeezy I've checked and they've not opened the link, and I have got a timestamped screenshot to prove it.

The key issue is whether they open it at the formal representations stage, to get to that you need to wait for the notice to owner.

Thank you for the reply, to confirm do you mean need to wait for the NTK but even at the formal rep stage if they open it, then we are essentially back to sqaure 1?
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: cp8759 on December 13, 2023, 11:21:49 pm
For later when you get the NTO:

The Borough of Reading (Rivermead Zone D) (Special Parking Area) (Waiting Restrictions and Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2006 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1weflElE5Zcnhsr1YzBM8FjmMLLbw0kFy)
The Borough of Reading (Civil Enforcement Area) (Waiting Restrictions Review A) Order 2014 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=13ZotdrbJUQuwTL8iNymPVLXOvmWWvBOI)
The Borough of Reading (Civil Enforcement Area) (Waiting Restrictions Review 2017 A) Order 2018 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1SPfXQ9WOtIvLyThSMcV0cxvtJgUMA5TZ)
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: cp8759 on December 12, 2023, 11:44:44 pm
@jeezy I've checked and they've not opened the link, and I have got a timestamped screenshot to prove it.

The key issue is whether they open it at the formal representations stage, to get to that you need to wait for the notice to owner.
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: John U.K. on December 09, 2023, 06:26:00 pm
Here you go
(https://i.ibb.co/F8tn0cx/Whats-App-Image-2023-12-09-at-17-39-29.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QYGXChb)
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on December 09, 2023, 05:40:34 pm
Yes sorry, here it is

https://ibb.co/QYGXChb
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: John U.K. on December 07, 2023, 09:16:43 pm
Saves wading thriough the ads

(https://i.ibb.co/pXRVqtK/Whats-App-Image-2023-12-07-at-21-05-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KyL4nMs)

Was there another page(s)?
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on December 07, 2023, 09:08:29 pm
I have now received the following response from the council rejecting the claim

https://ibb.co/KyL4nMs
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: cp8759 on October 31, 2023, 11:38:49 pm
Here you go:

Dear Reading Borough Council,

I challenge liability for PCN RG26788093 on the ground that the alleged contravention did not occur. When I parked my car I got out and did not see any signs, I had noticed a 2 hour restriction in an adjacent road so I assumed the restriction would be the same.

Only after getting the PCN I found a sign some 40 yards away, which was not visible from where I parked my car. To illustrate the point, my car was parked where you can see the first car on the left at LINK and as you can see, no signage is visible.

Chapter 3 of the traffic signs manual specifies at 13.21.3 that "As bay markings denote a place where a driver might be able to park, information about the permitted parking is required at more frequent intervals, particularly where the bay marking does not have any legend to indicate the type of user. All signs should be within the extent of the bay and the first sign should generally be no more than 15 m from the end of the bay. Where the length of the bay is less than 30 m, a sign mounted at the mid‑point should therefore be sufficient".

In this case the bay is well over 30 metres and from where I was parked, the sign was simply out of sight and not visible, it follows that the signage was not adequate within the meaning of regulation 18 of the The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996.

In light of the above the alleged contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

I will PM you a link to put in the representation, it will redirect to imgur.com/SLgMguT but if you give them the link I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at it or not (obviously do not click on that link yourself as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on it, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

Send the representation via the council website (do not send a letter in the post), and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on October 31, 2023, 10:38:47 am
Should I put forward an appeal based on the distance from the location of the sign?
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on October 30, 2023, 09:16:21 am
Please don't bloat-quote as it makes the thread unnecessarily long.

I think the distance from your car to the sign is the strongest point but I just need to clear up one thing: you parked, got out, didn't see any signs, why would you believe it's a 2 hour zone?

That is correct, if you look at it  from google maps, i got out and walked to the main road behind the car thus not seeing any signs.

I thought it was a 2 hour zone as the adjacent road has that option on the left (newport road)
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: cp8759 on October 29, 2023, 09:08:58 pm
Please don't bloat-quote as it makes the thread unnecessarily long.

I think the distance from your car to the sign is the strongest point but I just need to clear up one thing: you parked, got out, didn't see any signs, why would you believe it's a 2 hour zone?
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on October 29, 2023, 04:02:20 pm
Believed it was a 2 hour zone to park rather than just permit, I didn't see the sign until after I drove off (which i when i took the picture) as the sign is further down the road
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: cp8759 on October 29, 2023, 04:01:16 pm
Looking at GSV here https://maps.app.goo.gl/bXWE8uXLpkRC21qFA I note your car was parked at the far northeastern end of the bay, and there only seems to be a single sign some 40 yards away here https://maps.app.goo.gl/E7PVEuNMRhTipgTD7

Did you actually see the sign when you parked?
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: cp8759 on October 29, 2023, 03:46:20 pm
Here are the council photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/ExhhyI5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EYJQ51N.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4AHueBY.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Zy7d9go.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/89VyRCj.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1XIjMaz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/b3NL3J3.jpg)

Let's start with the basics, why was the car parked there without a permit?
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: John U.K. on October 28, 2023, 06:38:14 pm
there you go
(https://i.ibb.co/przBXky/Whats-App-Image-2023-10-28-at-17-32-08.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on October 28, 2023, 05:32:52 pm
Sorry John

Please see the back

https://ibb.co/bRBMdGJ
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: John U.K. on October 27, 2023, 02:25:21 pm
Here's the front of the PCN, p[lease add the back.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZfkNNnH/Whats-App-Image-2023-10-27-at-13-53-09.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on October 27, 2023, 01:55:47 pm
Yes sure, please see pcn attached and a link to the road itself

https://ibb.co/XWvVVhy

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.462902,-0.976694,73.89h,-4.35p,1z,gbljsovPX5gDguzQt5v1JA
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: DancingDad on October 26, 2023, 01:02:01 pm
Can we see the PCN, any council photos and a streetview link pls.

That suspension sign has no force in law, it is purely advisory.

It's irrelevant anyway, had parking been suspended you still could not park in a permit bay with or without permit
Title: Re: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: John U.K. on October 26, 2023, 10:57:27 am
Please post both sides of the unredacted PCN and a GSV link to the location.
Here is the sign.
(https://i.ibb.co/HHDPw8j/Whats-App-Image-2023-10-26-at-10-32-26.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RDp6rwq)
Title: Parking Ticket With Suspended Sign Showing
Post by: jeezy on October 26, 2023, 10:39:47 am
A PCN was put on car for a permit only zone which has the following sign showing as suspended parking.

It says for up to one week but it is still present, should it not have been taken down, is that a grounds for appeal?

https://ibb.co/RDp6rwq