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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Finepatsy2025 on September 03, 2025, 10:14:57 pm

Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 28, 2025, 09:19:32 pm
Thanks all - with only around 24hrs to go (7 days doesn't seem long to address 25 pages of evidence), I'll stick with the statement suggested in the last comment, but will let you know how it goes.
Cheers again
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2025, 11:23:36 am
If it were me responding to the operators response, I would keep it very simple. I have already told you that you may need to lead the POPLA assessor by the note and it is best to assume they are a moron who can be persuaded by ParkingEye's overwhelming bundle.

This really would be my response to the operators evidence:

Quote
I, Mr Keeper have read the rule book called PoFA 2012. It says: Mr Operator must send a letter to Mr Keeper to arrive within 14 days and he must put in special warning words. The visit was 4 June 2025. The letter to Mr Keeper was posted on 24 July 2025. That is too late. The letter also leaves out the special warning words. Mr Driver has not been identified. When the rules are not followed and Mr Driver isn’t named, the Mr Keeper doesn’t have to pay. Please cancel the charge.

If you're not up to that, the simply copy and paste the following into the response webform:

Quote
This is my response to the operators evidence.

In order for the creditor (the operator) to be able to hold the Keeper liable for the charge, PoFA ¶9(5) requires that the NtK be given (served/delivered) within the "relevant period". For clarity, the relevant period is 14 days from the date of the alleged contravention, which was Wednesday 4th June 2025.

For the NtK to have been given within the relevant period, it would have had to have been posted first class no later than Monday 16th June in order for it to have been deemed delivered (given) within 14 days of the date of the alleged contravention. The NtK was not actually issued until Thursday 24th July, which means that it was not given until Monday 28th July, 33 days after the date of the alleged contravention.

As the NtK was not given within the relevant period, it does not comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA. Partial, or even substantial compliance is not enough. Just as someone cannot be partially pregnant, an NtK cannot be partially PoFA compliant. It is a binary issue. The statute is explicit. Unless ALL the requirements have been met, then the creditor cannot rely on PoFA to hold the Keeper liable.

The Keeper is not under any legal obligation to identified the driver. The operator has not identified the driver and, as there can be no presumption or inference that the Keeper must have been the driver, the burden of proof that the Keeper is liable for the charge has not been met. Irrespective of whatever the operator has provided as their "evidence", the first thing that the assessor must establish is whether the Keeper can be liable for the charge. In this case, it is not possible.

The operator has not proven that the person they are pursuing is liable for the charge and therefore the PCN must be cancelled and this appeal upheld.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: DWMB2 on September 25, 2025, 08:53:21 pm
If you are able to redact and then share their evidence (use DropBox/Google Drive to share) we can take a look.

Their usual approach is to bombard the assessor with evidence in the hope they'll go for it. It's generally worth responding to their evidence to point out that none of it rebuts your appeal point(s) - if you show us what they've sent, we can advise.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 25, 2025, 08:45:41 pm
A quick update all: Popla have finally 'begun' the appeal process and give 7 days for more evidence,but have followed the direction give here in this group to use the text on NTK arriving too late to establish responsibility.

Parking Eye have submitted around 25 pages of evidence roughly including: -

- pictures of cars leaving an returning from the original notice
- a site location map for signage
- images of 3-4 signs
- some sort of responsibility to manage the car park
- a statement that rambles referring to original case including something about responding to the notice alone, was tacit acceptance of responsibility.

Given the previous comments that I should rely on the NTK timescale flaw fro the outset. Do I do anything or just rely on original appeal grounds and wait for the outcome?

Thanks as always chaps/ chapasses
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: mickR on September 10, 2025, 09:27:27 pm
Quote
Mr Keeper reads the rule book. It says: send a keeper letter within 14 days and put in special keeper-warning words. The visit was 4 June 2025. The Notice to Keeper was issued 24 July 2025. That is too late. The letter also leaves out the special keeper-warning words. The driver has not been identified. When the rules are not followed and the driver isn’t named, the keeper doesn’t have to pay. Please cancel the charge.
;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: jfollows on September 10, 2025, 09:19:26 pm
Other
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 10, 2025, 09:14:46 pm
Thanks all, submitted as suggested. Will let you know how this pans-out.

Thanks once again for your time.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: DWMB2 on September 10, 2025, 07:43:51 pm
Always choose 'Other', the text of your appeal sets out your grounds for challenging the charge.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 10, 2025, 07:42:44 pm
This is priceless - thank you.

On opening the POPLA appeal i lists 6 grounds - none of which obviously match my situation: -

Stolen car
not improperly parked
excessive fee
not the driver
extreme circumstances
Other.

Am assuming its other and then to d little more than paste the quoted section above?
Thanks again

NB. Intellectually malnourished has given me the biggest grin of my day
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: b789 on September 10, 2025, 02:32:44 pm
I'd probably go for the first of the two  ;D

Chicken!
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: DWMB2 on September 10, 2025, 11:15:53 am
I'd probably go for the first of the two  ;D
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: b789 on September 10, 2025, 10:56:26 am
This is not a criminal matter and so the "magistrates court" is not applicable. This is a civil contractual issue and would be dealt with in the county court.

The POPLA code is valid for 33 days from the date of the appeal rejection. Don't try and overthink it. They allow 5 days for service plus 28 days. So, if your POPLA code is still valid, you should appeal.

This would never stand up in court as long as the driver is not identified. There is no legal mechanism for transferring liability for an alleged contractual breach by an unknown driver to the known Keeper if the creditor has not fully complied with all the requirements of PoFA 2012. Clearly, they have not complied in this case and so, as the Keeper and not identifying the driver, they do not have a legal leg to stand on.

A single point appeal to POPLA on the basis that you are the registered keeper. You have not identified the driver. The operator has not issued an NtK that complies with PoFA para 9(4)(b) because it cannot have been given within the relevant period if the issue date is 24 July and the date of the alleged contravention is 4th June.

Use this very simple POPLA appeal:

Quote
I am the Keeper. ParkingEye has not established Keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) Schedule 4. The alleged contravention was on 4 June 2025. The Notice to Keeper (NtK) was issued on 24 July 2025, outside the 14-day relevant period required by paragraph 9(4)–(6). The NtK also omits the paragraph 9(2)(f) keeper-liability warning, indicating the operator is not relying on PoFA. The driver has not been identified. With PoFA not met and no identified driver, the keeper cannot be liable and this appeal must be allowed.

Personally, I'd keep it even simpler as some POPLA assessors can be quite intellectually malnourished and I'd aim it for someone with a mental age of a toddler to be able to understand:

Quote
Mr Keeper reads the rule book. It says: send a keeper letter within 14 days and put in special keeper-warning words. The visit was 4 June 2025. The Notice to Keeper was issued 24 July 2025. That is too late. The letter also leaves out the special keeper-warning words. The driver has not been identified. When the rules are not followed and the driver isn’t named, the keeper doesn’t have to pay. Please cancel the charge.

Either one should to the trick. I suspect that ParkingEye will concede and it won't even be assessed.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: jfollows on September 09, 2025, 11:04:47 pm
No, POPLA says 28 but in reality you have a few extra days, which is why I said 33 before.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 09, 2025, 10:51:48 pm
Cheers folks,
Appeal refusal-letter dated August 8th. Again unconvinced this arrived until at least a week later, perhaps the 15th.

The terms on the POPLA paperwork say I have '28 days' (rather than 33)?

So seeing this is clearly stacked against driver, 33 down to 28, 28 minus the time to mail the letter, I'm assuming the appeal POPLA date as expired.

To clarify the obvious element to my mind, they have admitted in writing they don't have enough evidence to confirm if T&C's were broken, and as they have missed the opportunity to identify the driver - so now they no clear evidence of any offense, by an unknown person.

As a third and final matter, they have acknowledged in writing that they've been made aware of both of these flaws and disregarded them.

From my limited experience of attending court for prosecutions in work, any one reasonable flaw in evidencing either the offense or the offender, gets royal flipped out of magistrates court, often with a flea in the ear of the prosecution and cost to boot.

Here there are three factors seemingly casting significant doubt over their whether this case should even be in court.

Assuming I've missed the POPLA deadline from what I've read - why are the measures for this case so far removed from what I've seen is the general bar in court - does this even stand a chance of being progressed let alone winning (I'm assuming in Magistrates court?).
Oh! and what action if any would follow if I av missed the date - nothing until court?
Tanks both for you views on this.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: DWMB2 on September 08, 2025, 08:34:35 pm
Quite right, serves me right for skim reading. When was the appeal rejected?
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: jfollows on September 08, 2025, 08:20:31 pm
As you are the registered keeper, and this is PE's first correspondence, you would appeal to have a rare 'golden ticket'. You can appeal along the lines of the below:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not respond within 28 days, chase them.

I believe the original poster has already appealed to Parking Eye, but presumably not on this basis, and received the inevitable rejection, so can now go to POPLA.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: jfollows on September 08, 2025, 08:18:38 pm
They can never require details of the driver.

Under the provisions of PoFA 2012 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4) the liability for the charge can be transferred from the unknown driver to the registered keeper.

Parking Eye has not complied with the legislation. Primarily by not sending the notice to you, the keeper, to arrive within 14 days of the ‘transgression’.

You appeal as the registered keeper to POPLA given that you appear to have appealed to Parking Eye already. What is the date of your appeal rejection? You have something like 33 days from this date to file a POPLA appeal.

I suggest you search the forum for similar cases, there are plenty of similar appeals to POPLA although not generally for Parking Eye.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: DWMB2 on September 08, 2025, 08:12:42 pm
As you are the registered keeper, and this is PE's first correspondence, you would appeal to have a rare 'golden ticket'. You can appeal along the lines of the below:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not respond within 28 days, chase them.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 08, 2025, 08:01:59 pm
Hi,
This is really helpful - thank you.

Here's the rear of the first letter delivered after almost 7 weeks (I've assumed is now the NTK). Yes very long time ago to know who was driving and why. and yes I am the keeper: -

https://imgur.com/a/BSnKATr

So I've understood correctly, I think you are saying?: -

- 7 weeks is legally too long for them to require the details of the driver, hence not mentioning FoI Act on rear?

- So there is no need to establish who was driving, nor are they able to safely accuse any particular person of causing the act.

- and I think? ... that although they won't let this go for some time, that their case is far harder to evidence and they are unlikely to pursue to court - and I should not go to POPLA or enter into further dialogue with them unless it gets to court?

Am really surprised to be frank that admitting in writing that they have 'insufficient information to confirm if a driver broke the T&C's' isn't a fundamental admission they have no case. (but what do I know).

Thanks once again - please just advise what my best next action would be if you were in my position.
Cheers
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: jfollows on September 04, 2025, 08:52:32 pm
Dud you identify the driver in your appeal?
Sorry, you already said not.
Are you the registered keeper and is your V5C correct?
If so, and this is the first notice to keeper, then you can’t be liable for the actions of the driver.
However it’s unusual for Parking Eye to take so long to issue the first NtK.
If the reverse of their notice does not mention the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 then they know they haven’t complied with its requirements.
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 04, 2025, 08:48:03 pm
Apologies I thought I'd included everything. Here's the redacted letters. These are the only contact received.

https://imgur.com/a/2Ki4RcB

https://imgur.com/a/2Ki4RcB

Thanks
Title: Re: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving imag
Post by: DWMB2 on September 03, 2025, 10:18:43 pm
Welcome to FTLA.

To help us provide the best advice, please read the following thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking Charges Forum guide (https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/)
Title: Parking Eye not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were breach PCN July 2025 moving images
Post by: Finepatsy2025 on September 03, 2025, 10:14:57 pm
Hi,
A PCN has been receive trough the post 7 weeks after an event, where no ticket was issued prior.
The alleged incident was returning to a car park within one hour (both for circa 10minutes).

The images show the car pausing at a pedestrian crossing, and again at another point on the site in transit, presumably attempting to establish entering and leaving the site.

No driver has been identified and the appeal  has been refused.

Grounds were: no location for parking was been given beyond the entire retail park (most of which is not controlled by the company), nor any images of the car being stationary.

There is genuinely no certainty the car was parked, but purchases on other parts of the park are shown in accounts for a similar time, with the suspicion this is capturing the car passing through rather than parking.

Without clearer information, the owner is unclear who was driving, which shop this relates to (as seems to be off site) and if the car even stopped to park.
Should a POPLA application be carried out - or just left given the Parking eye response confirms they do not know the driver, and that they are "... not in receipt of sufficient evidence to confirm whether the T&C's were not breached"
Sounds like they don't know, so have refused my appeal.
Many thanks