Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: TheParkingmeister on September 02, 2025, 09:08:49 pm
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Ahh so for payment, it is to be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice, where as this says, "if you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240.00 may be payable."
And for representations it is the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice.
**** that's not confusing at all 😂
8(v) is missing - the increased amount which refers to the date of the notice.
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1. A DNC is exactly that, whether they adduce evidence or not.
2. No adduced evidence is an automatic win.
In view of the seriousness of their PCN issues, I would press them for an explanation.
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I got the Tribunal decision this morning, unfortunately it just has the standard spiel about 'the EA informing the Tribunal that it will not contest the appeal and the adjudicator allows the appeal without considering the evidnece etc' - In hindsight perhaps if I hadn't requested a full written decision regardless of whether the EA decide to DNC, on Monday, then the EA wouldn't have been notified and wouldn't have uploaded the DNC on Tuesday. And the hearing would have taken place today and my evidence would have been looked at, I could have said my piece, and I would have got the reasoned written decision.
But, if as you say, the hearing would have been cancelled as the EA submitted no evidence anyway, would they still have considered my evidence and written a reasoned decision or would it be the same as a DNC?
Sorry for the questions, just like to better understand.
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I would ask them why.
Probably not worth the time. They have no obligation to give an actual answer to that, they can just say internal deliberations, or there's no recorded information held, or Legal Advice exemption or any crap like that.
Interestingly I have had no notification from London Tribunal even that the DNC was submitted. When do they plan to notify me that I don't need to attend the Tribunal video call hearing? ???
I did send a request to the Tribunal on Monday requesting that they give a reasoned decision & case summary even if the council do decide to DNC. As it would be beneficial for our (company I work for) future compliance, and to prevent the same thing happening again by putting pressure on the council to fix the defects.
Whether they will do that or if they even do that at all, I have no idea but thought I'd ask them
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I would ask them why.
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PM sent.
Ahh I see, thanks! I will keep that in mind in future.
The council submitted a DNC to the Tribunal portal yesterday.
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PM sent.
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If they adduce no evidence by Wednesday, the Tribunal will call you the same day and tell you not to attend as the game is over. Personally, I would never choose a Thursday! And sit tight and do nothing.
This may interest you:
https://www.ftla.uk/news-press-articles/revealed-the-london-boroughs-that-cant-be-bothered-to-defend-thousands-of-parkin/msg104393/#msg104393
What's wrong with a Thursday? I didn't really choose the day, I just selected Monday to Friday
And yeah that was an interesting read. Some councils parking enforcement departments seem to take it very seriously in contrast. To the point where highlighting and evidencing an unlawful enforcement scheme is somehow a personal attack. I've had some good ones recently where Bexley Council believe they do not need to have signage for an overnight waiting ban zone for Heavy Goods Vehicles that covers the entire 60.5km borough, because.... they have told the registered keeper (the company I work for with over 900 drivers) previously that the restriction exists. They appear to believe this absolves them of their responsibility to signpost ???
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If they adduce no evidence by Wednesday, the Tribunal will call you the same day and tell you not to attend as the game is over. Personally, I would never choose a Thursday! And sit tight and do nothing.
This may interest you:
https://www.ftla.uk/news-press-articles/revealed-the-london-boroughs-that-cant-be-bothered-to-defend-thousands-of-parkin/msg104393/#msg104393
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Hearing is on Thursday 8th January at 12:15. So, far the Enforcing Authority has not uploaded any evidence to the portal and nothing has been received via email or post from them.
Essentially, I am wanting the adjudicator to give detail in the case summary, so the grounds of appeal are on public record.
Now, I submitted a seperate appeal to the London Tribunal on 18th December that the EA decided to DNC on 24th December, and in that case summary it just says the EA has informed the Tribunal they will not contest and that the Chief Adjudicator has allowed it without considering the evidence.
If the EA in this one decides to not contest I don't want it just to say that, if I can help it. I want it to atleast acknowledge my grounds of appeal. Can I write to the adjudicator to request they do this?
Also, what happens in other situations, if the EA fail to submit evidence and contest the appeal, does the hearing go ahead? If they don't attend the hearing is that the same as a do not contest or will the adjudicator still have to consider my appeal and evidence? And if they submit evidence now, late, what happens? And in these scenarios does the adjudicator give a full written case summary?
As I said, I essentially want the issues with the EAs enforcement to be noted and on public record, whether that is the adjudicator's ruling or just a summary of my appeal grounds (I guess they can't really give a ruling on my appeal grounds if the EA has explicitly DNC, right?)
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to prevent this happening again as the EA has set up a trap for large vehicles where they have no choice but to use a bus gate.
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Quick question, is it normal for Enfield Council to close the PCN on their own online portal before the tribunal happens? Also, is it normal for them to not have uploaded evidence after a month and a half? I ask because my ongoing TfL Tribunal, the PCN is still outstanding on the TfL site and TfL submitted evidence after like 21 days.
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Ahh so for payment, it is to be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice, where as this says, "if you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240.00 may be payable."
And for representations it is the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice.
**** that's not confusing at all 😂
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Does this look okay? Is there any changes I should make, things I should add or take out?
Many thanks.
London Tribunal Appeal Draft — https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsbPy85pH0yBYSVbj_dhSyJr3aUBH8Fh/view?usp=drivesdk
Change procedural impropriety to: I make this collateral challenge re the PCN because.
PI is not a ground.
Also it is missing an important/mandaory part of the legislation.
Para 4(8 ) (v)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
which in turn refers to 4(8 ) (iii)
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
For fuller explanation here:
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg86653/#msg86653
A double whammy.
Would you like me to represent you?
Thanks for clarifying the information about procedural impropriety, I was a bit unsure about using that phrase as I know it is for parking offences under Traffic Management Act 2004, but wasn't sure if it was for moving traffic PCNs under the London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003.
In terms of the parts you specify as missing, the PCN says "if you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or make representations before the end of a period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice an increased charge of £240.00 may be payable." — Does this not cover (iii) and (v)?
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Does this look okay? Is there any changes I should make, things I should add or take out?
Many thanks.
London Tribunal Appeal Draft — https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsbPy85pH0yBYSVbj_dhSyJr3aUBH8Fh/view?usp=drivesdk
Change procedural impropriety to: I make this collateral challenge re the PCN because.
PI is not a ground.
Also it is missing an important/mandaory part of the legislation.
Para 4(8 ) (v)
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
which in turn refers to 4(8 ) (iii)
(iii)that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
For fuller explanation here:
https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg86653/#msg86653
A double whammy.
Would you like me to represent you?
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Advance warning signs (2) here going north: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BjqsxeJUQnUHtC9P6
and a much smaller sign going south: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BjqsxeJUQnUHtC9P6
So if you were proceeding south on Firs Lane you would have a much more powerful appeal argument on inadequacy of signage. Councils are under an obligation to place adequate signage of a restriction. I don't think they've done this for the southbound direction. You could also argue for inadequacy of signage in both directions due to their use of blue backed signs, which are not prominent, whereas a geographic layout sign on a white background would be far more likely to be noticed.
You have posted the same link twice.
But I assume you meant this sign: https://maps.app.goo.gl/etXdvWK9Kumqu3eH6?g_st=ac
The vehicle was going south, it joined Firs Lane from Farm Road. The blue rectangle sign warning of a width restriction 450 yards ahead is beyond the last junction to turn off.
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Advance warning signs (2) here going north: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BjqsxeJUQnUHtC9P6
and a much smaller sign going south: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BjqsxeJUQnUHtC9P6
So if you were proceeding south on Firs Lane you would have a much more powerful appeal argument on inadequacy of signage. Councils are under an obligation to place adequate signage of a restriction. I don't think they've done this for the southbound direction. You could also argue for inadequacy of signage in both directions due to their use of blue backed signs, which are not prominent, whereas a geographic layout sign on a white background would be far more likely to be noticed.
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That's as about as thorough as can be and you should opt for an online or phone hearing making it clear you are representing the owner/keeper.
They may not contest this.
Thanks, I appreciate you taking a look.
I will do that.
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That's as about as thorough as can be and you should opt for an online or phone hearing making it clear you are representing the owner/keeper.
They may not contest this.
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Does this look okay? Is there any changes I should make, things I should add or take out?
Many thanks.
London Tribunal Appeal Draft — https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MsbPy85pH0yBYSVbj_dhSyJr3aUBH8Fh/view?usp=drivesdk
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I meant the council's video not your dash cam.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M-BAD5Yq4FEwxO7GHwZbKqT7UZGkkgmE/view?usp=drivesdk -
Pretty uneventful really
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I meant the council's video not your dash cam.
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Looking on London Tribunals Register of Appeals, there is a lot on this road, and quite a lot for this particular bus gate, though I only looked at the successful ones there was one that was most relevant, another HGV that had gone through the bus gate - 2220936636 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LcbQA9hfwGRhtlyrOs_nf_t6KNZkM8tp/view?usp=drivesdk
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I think there's a technical error in the PCN. It says they may disregard representations received more then 28 days from date of notice. However they may only do so if received more than 28 days from date of service of the notice.
As such they haven't complied with their legal obligation to set out in the PCN how you may make representations under the relevant Act.
Nice catch! You are right there Schedule 1, paragraph 1(3) says:
"The enforcing authority may disregard any such representations which are received by them after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice in question was served." Which is assumed to be 2 days after the PCN issue date, right?
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Post the video.
Check the tribunal for appealed cases at this location.
Video from this PCN - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QBB7MJGCD9xy9Uwc6GQzglzpoP53BM-e/view?usp=sharing
Video from last PCN at same spot - https://drive.google.com/file/d/166DCJ_lik54S_X8L_nHAbI6Jg_yeWRqD/view?usp=drivesdk
And yeah good idea, I'll have a look at previous cases there in the morning.
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I think there's a technical error in the PCN. It says they may disregard representations received more then 28 days from date of notice. However they may only do so if received more than 28 days from date of service of the notice.
As such they haven't complied with their legal obligation to set out in the PCN how you may make representations under the relevant Act.
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Post the video.
Check the tribunal for appealed cases at this location.
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Enfield PCN - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LPcVMtio6WjFM3KMy0TsgqK7so3iw-nG/view?usp=drivesdk
My appeal letter - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kg-3lHG5lcT1HfGoZ1zLQ31OORDLvvRx/view?usp=drivesdk
Enfield Notice of Rejection - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LJM8qRIjh7viNztUK7fbTqz8HAyF45-_/view?usp=drivesdk
Google Maps Bus Gate Location (southbound) - https://maps.app.goo.gl/x4UdyUL3nTgP7kjg6?g_st=ac
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I received a PCN at work (I wasn't driving) from Enfield Council for a contravention 33g, using a route restricted to certain vehicles (local buses only) on Firs Lane.
I had one earlier in the year that they rejected, and they rejected my appeals for this one too. The vehicle is a HGV that has ended up on Firs Lane without going past any prohibition signage or advance warning of a prohibition signage until after the last possible alternative route, past the point of no return. Meaning, by the time you get to the blue rectangle sign with a 7 foot width restriction 450 yards ahead, it's too late to take an alternative route.
Continuing down the road, presumably 450 yards ahead, there is a bus gate in the middle of the road, with a narrowed lane either side of it for traffic in either direction. The bus gate has the appropriate signage at the gate with a diagram 953 variant that says "Local", with "BUS GATE" painted on the road. There is also a diagram 629A for the 7 foot width restriction, and is narrowed with a curb and bollards.
The last available junction has been narrowed by a pavement build-out and bus stop (which appears to have been whiped out, I would guess by some other HGV) and
parked cars opposite, preventing larger vehicles from turning. The effect of this is that the drivers of larger
vehicles are effectively compelled into continuing down the road to the bus gate, regardless of intention, with no fair opportunity to avoid the
restriction.
The options are, to smash through the bollards of the width restriction, probably getting a PCN from the same camera and getting an invoice for damages, or go through the bus gate and get a PCN. Or reverse back to the last junction in an articulated lorry and pray you don't hit a car or whipe out a bus stop and double pray that you can make the turn into the junction once you get there. All options suck and could have been prevented by advance signage.
Enfield have rejected my appeal, again, with an almost identical response as last time. They suggest going through the narrowed road to the left of the bus gate to avoid the contravention and clearly have not even read my appeal nevermind watched the dashcam footage I provided. They also note in the NoR that I am the driver. I was not the driver and never claimed to be, I was about 300 miles away at the time lol.
I will attach the PCN, my appeal, and their Notice of Rejection in the comments/replies. I'm trying to figure out if I have a chance of winning a London Tribunal appeal and if I do, what I should say.
Many thanks in advance 8)