Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: msym on August 27, 2025, 08:23:13 pm
-
You must post actual letters pl, not transcriptions. Pl see the READ THIS FIRST section at the top of the main forum page.
Are you the registered keeper of the car and are your DVLA details current?
If you are the registered keeper, then you would receive NTOs for each outstanding PCN.
If you carry on, then IMO pl either forget about your error in not renewing or relegate it to the end under mitigation. Failure to renew was yours and nobody else's. I don't say this in a harsh way, but the more your populate reps with these matters the more you give them the opportunity to waffle on about them and ignore your main points which can be put much more clearly than hitherto.
But if you're not the registered keeper then the matter would be out of your hands anyway at this time.
-
Hi all,
I got the 3rd PCN response now and its the same as the first.
in short:
1st: they offer the original discounted price of £80
2nd: they will waive
3rd: they offer the original discounted price of £80
Not sure i have many options but to pay at this stage.
thank you for your support.
-
Hi all,
I got the response on the second pcn. A bit surprised as its different to the first one. It just shows how there is no standard decision/ responses. I am now waiting for the third to see what it will be.
‐----------
Thank you for your explanation regarding Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) JK17011213, issued under the Traffic
Management Act 2004 on Monday, 18 August 2025 at 13:28 to vehicle Grey Nissan BC23KSE, for contravention 12s
Parked in a residents or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a
valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without
payment of the parking charge, at Croxted Road. This PCN was issued by a Civil Enforcement Officer who
observed the vehicle for 4 minutes and 47 seconds and recorded in the notebook: TIME PLATE: MONFRI NOON2PM
PERMIT HOLDERS HH HR OR PAY BY PHONE 020 7005 0055 QUOTING LOCATION 84785. NO VP NO DISREGARD
AND NO PAYMENT BY PHONE FOUND. DRIVER NOT SEEN.
We have considered your challenge carefully and note your explanation that your resident permit had expired while you were
out of the country and that it was renewed immediately upon your return. You highlighted your continued history of paying for
a resident permit and outlined the difficulties caused by ongoing Thames Water works in the area, and the inconvenience this
has posed while caring for a young child.
We appreciate the context you provided and on this occasion, as a gesture of goodwill, we have decided to cancel PCN
JK17011213. However, we must advise you that PCNs JK16922827 and JK17011031 were correctly issued for the
same contravention and remain valid and payable.
Payment of the penalty charges for PCNs JK16922827 and JK17011031 can still be made at the discounted rate
of £80 each if received within 14 days from the date of this letter.
Yours sincerely
---------
-
Has the author of this thread followed my advice re screenshots? Their website is a huge issue - soon to be exposed.
Hello. Thank you for the response. I did provide the screenshots previously in this thread but didn't understand whether i needed to do something with them. What is the issue with the portal? I assume i cannot challenge further now? The letters says that i can issue a Notice to Owner but not sure if this applies to me as i am the one.
Are visitor's/traders etc. permits virtual?
Thank you for your response. Yes primarily but i have seen a couple of cars with a paper one.
So they could cancel the other two.
Surely this is not on:
"While you reference Code 19 in your letter, which relates to an expired permit being displayed, please note that contravention code 12s was correctly issued in this case as the vehicle had no valid virtual permit at the time, and nothing was displayed to suggest an expired permit was being relied upon."
Aren't the permits virtual? In which case an expired e-permit is the same in principle.
Thank you for the response.
Why do you say they will cancel the other 2? I have not yet received any response and they did say that they treat them separately.
Regarding your comment that epermit is the same in principle can i challenge it back further? On their response they seem to treat the paper and the virtual differently.
Thank you all for your support
-
Has the author of this thread followed my advice re screenshots? Their website is a huge issue - soon to be exposed.
-
Are visitor's/traders etc. permits virtual?
-
So they could cancel the other two.
Surely this is not on:
"While you reference Code 19 in your letter, which relates to an expired permit being displayed, please note that contravention code 12s was correctly issued in this case as the vehicle had no valid virtual permit at the time, and nothing was displayed to suggest an expired permit was being relied upon."
Aren't the permits virtual? In which case an expired e-permit is the same in principle.
-
Dear members,
I have just received the response of my challenge on one of the three. In short they do not treat the 3 PCNs as related but they are willing to provide me with the original discount. Do you think there is anything i can do? Perhaps get them to only charge me for the one?
Please see below
Thank you for your correspondence regarding Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) JK16922827, issued on 11 August 2025 at
13:32 to vehicle registration BC23KSE, a Grey Nissan, for the contravention 12s Parked in a residents' or shared
use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit or voucher
or pay and display ticket issued for that place where required, or without payment of the parking charge
(Shared use bay). The PCN was issued under the Traffic Management Act 2004 (Section 9), on Croxted Road, by a
Civil Enforcement Officer who observed the vehicle for 3 minutes and 27 seconds. The CEO recorded in their notes that
the bay was signed for Permit Holders HH, HR or Pay by Phone, and that no valid permit or payment was found.
We have carefully considered your challenge and reviewed the points raised in your letter. You explained that your permit had
expired while you were out of the country and that you were unaware of this due to limited internet access during your time
away. You also mention that you renewed your permit promptly upon returning, and that you have a consistent history of
renewing your annual permit without issue.
While we appreciate your circumstances and understand there was no deliberate attempt to avoid compliance, we must
advise that at the time of the contravention, there was no valid permit in place for your vehicle. Permit holders are
responsible for ensuring that their virtual permit remains valid at all times, and unfortunately, the Council does not issue
reminders. While you reference Code 19 in your letter, which relates to an expired permit being displayed, please note that
contravention code 12s was correctly issued in this case as the vehicle had no valid virtual permit at the time, and
nothing was displayed to suggest an expired permit was being relied upon.
We also note your concerns regarding the number of PCNs issued over the period of your absence. However, each PCN
represents a separate contravention, and each will be assessed on its own merits. We acknowledge your comments about
local utility works by Thames Water and any parking inconvenience caused, but this does not override the requirement to
ensure that your vehicle is parked in accordance with restrictions.
Given all of the above, we are satisfied that this PCN was correctly issued and we are unable to cancel it.
Taking into account your previous compliance with permit requirements and the mitigating circumstances you have outlined,
we are prepared on this occasion to reinstate the discounted amount.
You now have 14 days from the date of this letter to pay the discounted amount of £80.00. If payment is not
received within this period, the charge will revert to the full amount of £160.00.
The enclosed photos help to show why your PCN was issued.
You have these choices:
You can pay the discount charge of £80.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter.
You can pay £160.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
You can formally challenge your PCN by using a Notice to Owner form. The vehicle's owner will automatically receive the
form if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The form offers you the chance to formally challenge your
PCN or pay the full £160.00. If you decide to formally challenge your PCN, please do not write to us again but wait until the
Notice to Owner form arrives.
How to pay:
Internet By credit or debit card at https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/parking-
tickets/pay-your-parking-ticket Please have your Penalty Charge Notice number and issue date, vehicle registration number
and your credit/debit card details available.
Post By cheque or postal order only, payable to Southwark Parking Services. Please make sure you write the Penalty
Charge Notice number, vehicle registration number and your address on the back of the cheque or postal order, and send it
to: Southwark Parking Services, Admail 4197, London, SE1 1ZW
Do NOT send cash or make a credit card payment by post. Post-dated cheques will not be accepted.
Yours sincerely
-
I would put all three PCN numbers at the start and send the same challenge for each PCN.
Another point you can make is that the short 2 hour restriction is there to deter commuter parking and you are a local resident.
Many thanks. Valid point which strengthens my view of not being intentional.
thank you
-
I would put all three PCN numbers at the start and send the same challenge for each PCN.
Another point you can make is that the short 2 hour restriction is there to deter commuter parking and you are a local resident.
-
There are informal challenges - say respectfully challenge.
You should include the code 19 point, high up in the text, which may encourage them to cancel.
I note guidance from London Councils that an expired permit should be treated as invalid, and so subject to a lower level code 19 penalty. As my permit had expired only soon before the PCNs, I would appreciate it if you would consider my challenge on this point as well as my other points.
Thank you for your response. I will adjust accordingly prior to sending. Would this apply only to the first PCN or all 3?
Regards,
Marios
-
There are informal challenges - say respectfully challenge.
You should include the code 19 point, high up in the text, which may encourage them to cancel.
I note guidance from London Councils that an expired permit should be treated as invalid, and so subject to a lower level code 19 penalty. As my permit had expired only soon before the PCNs, I would appreciate it if you would consider my challenge on this point as well as my other points.
-
Draft something and we'll tweak it.
Thank you, Following is my response. I dont feel I have a lot of grounds other than it was not intentional.
-------------
To Whom It May Concern,
I am writing to formally challenge the three Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) recently issued to me in relation to parking on Croxted road during the period of 11-18 August.
I have been a resident at my current address since moving into this house, and throughout this time I have consistently held and paid for an annual resident parking permit without issue. Unfortunately, my permit expired during a period when I was out of the country with limited monitoring of emails and access to Internet. Due to my absence, I was not aware that my permit had lapsed, and as soon as I returned home and became aware of the situation, I renewed the permit immediately.
It is important to clarify that there was never any intention on my part to avoid payment or to park without authorisation. This was an honest mistake, arising solely because I was not present in the country nor did I receive any reminders or notices regarding its expiry. As a responsible resident who has always complied with permit requirements and promptly paid the necessary fees, I trust that my record reflects my commitment to upholding local parking regulations.
Additionally, during this period, there were significant Thames Water works taking place throughout August which have been very disruptive. The majority of the road in close proximity was blocked out. This meant that I had to find other parking location further away from my residence.
I kindly ask that you exercise discretion in this matter and take into account all of the above. I believe it would be fair and reasonable to cancel the three PCNs issued under these circumstances.
Thank you for your consideration. I am happy to provide evidence of my travel dates, permit renewal confirmation, and any other information required to support my appeal.
-------------
-
Draft something and we'll tweak it.
-
Dear all, any advice would really be appreciated. The discount period of the first PCN will expire in a couple of days and as such i need to respond imminently.
Thank you in advance for the support.
-
Thank you all for your responses. Apologies I realised I didnt use quotes so my responses may have been missed.
Are all the PCNs code 12.
With just 9 days from expiry to first PCN this is in the bounds of being lower level code 19 for an invalid permit.
This is a 2 hour restriction. We would hope they'd use discretion at least on two of them.
What date have you renewed the permit from.
(https://i.ibb.co/Fk0wfsHY/s3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/dwXgPRRt/s2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYsbk5kx/s1.jpg)
I renewed it on Monday 25th Aug 9:12 (as per their site)
Screenshot their website page re payment dates etc.
I have added the payment page into the link below along with a screenshot of their new system.
https://imgur.com/a/JZQhDWd
Can you renew early to cater for holidays ? Any sensible scheme would recognise absences of permit holders from time to time.
There was no option to back date the renewal unfortunately.
Overall, what do you think is the best course of action? Challenge all 3, explain my situation and hope for the best?
thank you in advance,
Marios
-
bump
-
Thank you all for the prompt responses.
I have added the payment page into the link below along with a screenshot of their new system.
https://imgur.com/a/JZQhDWd
There was no way to backdate the permit due to leave unfortunately.
All are 12s. Regarding code 19 the only point to note is that the permit is only online with no hard copy on the car.
What do you think is the best way to proceed? Should i just be apologetic this was missed as i was absent from the country?
Many thanks,
Marios
-
Are all the PCNs code 12.
With just 9 days from expiry to first PCN this is in the bounds of being lower level code 19 for an invalid permit.
This is a 2 hour restriction. We would hope they'd use discretion at least on two of them.
What date have you renewed the permit from.
(https://i.ibb.co/Fk0wfsHY/s3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/dwXgPRRt/s2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYsbk5kx/s1.jpg)
-
Screenshot their website page re payment dates etc.
-
Can you renew early to cater for holidays ? Any sensible scheme would recognise absences of permit holders from time to time.
-
Dear all,
I have recently received 3 PCN's. Any support and advise would greatly be appreciated. Following are the details.
Thank you in advance for the support
Case
I am a resident in the area of the contravention. I have an annual residents permit that I have been renewing since I moved in the area (2 years now).
This time around, I missed its renewal by 3 weeks. It expired on the 2 August and I was away on holiday from 1st August until 23 August. Upon my return, on the 25th I renewed for another year.
During this gap of 3 weeks I received 3 contraventions as bellow:
PCN1: 11/08
PCN2: 15/08
PCN3: 18/08
They were all left on my windscreen on the car.
https://imgur.com/a/JZQhDWd
Additional points to note:
1. There have been Thames water works throughout this period in front of my house which meant that I could not park where I usually do and I had to park further down the road. This disruption is significant but not sure relevant
2. The Southwark portal for getting a permit changed. This means that I cannot see my history
3. I did receive an email a month prior to expiry but I didnt see the email on time. I did not receive a follow-on email notification or other means.
4. The system does not offer a way of auto renewing the permit for residents (this would make life so much easier)
5. This action was not intentional from me. As I always park and have been paying for the privilege of parking.
Is there anything I can do? It feels a bit unfair to me. Although arguably I did forget to renew, I was never intended to avoid paying for parking.
Kind regards,
Marios