Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: IC3GB on August 22, 2025, 04:28:17 pm
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PM received. I would file your appeal TODAY.
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I wasn't aware of Imgur had decided to stop allowing access to its content for us in the UK as of the 30/09/25.
See the link here to the NOR (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QWATi7AHH9fEdahUa-8Hma7ZJJb_6Isp/view?usp=drive_link) from my Google Drive.
Please confirm if you are able to access please.
Thanks in advance.
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PM received. Cannot access he NOR.
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I'm bumping this as I have to get my appeal into the tribunal by the end of this week, is there a consensus amongst the scholars here relating to the points made by @SITR and @MrChips?
Thanks in advance.
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At the risk of muddying the waters (so please ignore me if so!), the descriptor is wrong in that it's a bus station rather than a bus garage...but that could also work in your favour as there has been a ruling in the past that yellow boxes are not to be used at the entrances/exits of bus garages.
https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/1-the-box (https://www.yellowboxes.co.uk/1-the-box)
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At the risk of repeating myself, how do Bromley know there was a stationary vehicle blocking the exit? The video does not show which exit was selected by the driver, nor does it show any blockage in two of the three exit lanes as these are obscured by the bus.
I feel it would be a good idea to include this point in any appeal as well as the technical arguments advanced thus far.
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I Have just returned from a trip out of the country and have received a NoR from Bromley, please see the attached link.
Bromley Notice of Rejection of Representations (https://imgur.com/a/F7yPvzp)
Thanks in advance.
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;D Please keep us posted. This will be an interesting one.
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@Hippocrates
Thank you for providing the above, this was sent last week and I'm now awaiting the response from Bromley.
I have also saved a screenshot of the representations page as instructed.
Thanks again.
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They have amended their PCN:
This is correct:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
However, they cannot take steps to enforce the increased charge until 28 days from the date of service:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period within which an appeal could have been made expires; or
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I'll draft a collateral challenge tomorrow. Please prod me as I am super busy.
I make these formal representations against the PCN.
1. The alleged infraction is de minimis.
2 I make this collateral challenge regarding the validity of the PCN:
The council cannot "take steps to enforce recovery of the increased charge" until 28 days from the date of service of the PCN as provided at Para 5 ff. of
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period within which an appeal could have been made expires; or
***************
BEFORE you do this please screenshot the representations page.
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Hi @Hippocrates,
This is a gentle prod to you as suggested.
Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread thus far, I have just received a rejection from Greenwich for another PCN which was received prior to me learning of this forum and so I will start another thread relating to that later.
Thanks in advance.
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Just looked again at this, and beyond the YBJ it is two traffic lanes. The approach to the YBJ is bus lane plus traffic lane, so the OP would have approached the YBJ in the traffic lane so his space opposite would be in the second lane, not the first. This means the video does not show the contravention, because it doesn't show anything of the street beyond the YBJ as the bus is obstructing the camera. So as the evidence shows no stationary vehicle in the second lane, therefore cannot show a contravention, therefore the PCN must be cancelled.
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Do those two arguments include mine? Not sure how the council can prove the OP was blocked by a stationary vehicle that can't be seen...
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I represented a case some time ago perhaps the one you are thinking of. That was an exit from a bus only street somewhat similar but not the same.
Ms Peirce was having non of the arguments I put, but in truth I onlt tried because the Op had nothing to use
The box extends beyond the junction is also another avenue. If hippo is taking this on then i will liaise
with him re the two arguments
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You need to tread carefully here. Adjudicators don't look favourably on vehicles blocking buses, and this is a bus station, not a garage. There was a case soe months ago for a similar situation, (bus station and YBJs at entrance and eit) which the appellant lost.
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Hi @Pastmybest,
Correct as on the GSV and the attached jpeg image, this is the box in question.
Thanks in advance.
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Is it here?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/crystal+palace+parade+bus+garage/@51.4206649,-0.078811,134m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDgxOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
If so the box is not at the junction of two or more roads as a road is defined a having unfettered access for the public to use and the bus garage does not meet this criteria
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They have amended their PCN:
This is correct:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
However, they cannot take steps to enforce the increased charge until 28 days from the date of service:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a “charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above, with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period within which an appeal could have been made expires; or
****
I'll draft a collateral challenge tomorrow. Please prod me as I am super busy.
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Hi @MrChips,
See the attached showing both the first and second page of the PCN.
Thanks in advance.
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I don't think the video is sufficient to prove a contravention. There are three exit lanes (including one which extends beyond the right hand side of the box junction) and the bus is masking the third one so you can't see if it has a stationary vehicle blocking your exit.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jcHEkeU12EUibxPm6?g_st=ac
Also please include the backing pages of the PCN. I believe Bromley's template includes a technical error which can also be a strong appeal point.
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Having looked at their video, the bus is already stopped when you partially enter the box. I agree with Stamfordman this is a trivial offence. I call these 'moneygrubbing PCNs' and really, adjudicators should be far more willing to callout things like this, but I suspect they just want a quiet life.
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This is trivial and unfortunate but they can enforce this to get your cash.
Paperwork/website issues may be the only hope as per our member Hippo.
Of course they can use discretion and can be reminded of their duty to act fairly in the public interest.
(https://i.ibb.co/WjYN71F/os6r-Gy-H-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
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Hi John,
Video link shared in my now edited original post.
Thanks in advance,
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Please post the video, which is the evidence.
See
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
for guidance on posting images and videos.
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Hi,
I wonder if I could request the opinion of those with knowledge, as to whether I have grounds for a representation relating to this PCN. Whilst the contravention is mentioned in the PCN no contravention code has been indicated on the PCN (I may well be splitting hairs here), secondly my exit was the left lane for me to proceed down Anerley Hill which was initially blocked by the first bus pulling out and blocking the junction for my exit left and then the second bus pulling out.
Video of alleged contravention (https://imgur.com/a/rBuTCCO)
Thanks in advance.