Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: pangoluna on August 22, 2025, 11:24:15 am
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And the PCN please: all of it.
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Get and post the video you will have to ask TfL for it from the description you should win but until we see that video we cannot speculate further
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Based on your description of events, I would agree you should be in scope of the exemption. TFL (and most councils) seem to be in the habit of issuing PCNs to anyone who stops in a box junction irrespective of the circumstances.
The car in front of you is potentially in contravention the moment they are no longer waiting for a gap on oncoming traffic to turn right and are blocked by stationary vehicles at their chosen exit.
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Please post all sides of the PCN - only redact yr name & address - leave all else in.
See
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
for guidance
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Hello,
This is regarding a PCN received on a TFL Red Route yellow box junction in London. I still don't have the video which may void the whole case but I will take the worst case scenario and want to understand the LAW.
The law regarding Yellow Box Junction states the following:
(3) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not, in respect of a box junction within sub-paragraph (6)(a) of the definition of that expression, apply to a person who—
(a)causes a vehicle to enter the box junction for the purpose of turning right; and
(b)stops the vehicle within the box junction for so long as the vehicle is prevented from completing the right turn by an oncoming vehicle or other vehicle which is stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.
I am interested in the part in bold in that situation. Here what happened:
- waiting at the red light as the second car in line.
- light turns green and the first car in front move inside the box to try to turn right.
- the second car follows to also turn right.
- the right exit turned out to be not clear (it wasn't very clear from the red light position but whatever, let's assume it was visible).
- there is oncoming traffic blocking the first car to complete the turn so both the first and second cars are stationary on the box.
- the oncoming traffic stops but the right exit is still not clear for a few more seconds.
- the first car is therefore still stationary waiting for the exit to clear. It cleared after a few seconds.
- as the first car was stationary but without oncoming traffic, there is technically an offence committed by that first car as it is stationary because of stationary cars in the exit lane and not because of oncoming traffic.
But here is my question: is the second car also at fault? When reading the law above, it seems that the second car falls within the part in bold, that is it is waiting for the first car to complete its turn, independently from whether there is oncoming traffic or the exit was not clear.
Once I receive the video, I will be able to check if the exit was indeed not clear when moving inside the box (wasn't very visible from the driver's perspective inside the car) or how long after the oncoming traffic the exit cleared, could be just 2-5 seconds or so.
But even before receiving the video, I'm asking about the worst case scenario above which is that the exit was not clear and the first car had to remain stationary because of the exit not being clear. Is the second car committing an offence too in that case?
Thanks.