Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Maz on August 20, 2025, 08:54:33 am
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Thanks for the reply. Yes does seem like the council have washed their hands. Will see if they come back with what I've requested.I think that enterprise have taken the amount from another card I have used which I haven't authorised them to do. That wasn't the card I paid with. Will call today to clarify.
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Yes that is correct as I thought they said I was in possession of the car on the date after I had given it back when there was a fine. I reversed it as it wasn't clear in there correspondence. I have asked for photographic evidence at the time I returned the vehicle as where it is parked isn't where you return the car. They have refused so I'm waiting for the council and my appeal
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You cannot appeal to the council because you have no standing to do so: you posted that the council confirmed that liability WAS NOT transferred to you. As far as they're concerned, you're an outsider.
Meanwhile, Enterprise are pursuing you with 'debt collectors' i.e. toothless agents of Enterprise. If they want to play hardball they could sue you for breach of contract at which point you should be transferred to the Private Parking forum.
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The only evidence I have is the picture by Richmond council showing the position of the car when it was fined. I have asked Richmond for evidence of the day I parked it as I believe it has been moved as I have to park in a car club bay. I guess it makes sense to pay and appeal now, I misunderstood initially hence reversed the transaction as I did not have the car on the day the fine was issued. The debt collectors seem to be asking for the same fee anyway.
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Hiya,
Yes that is correct as I thought they said I was in possession of the car on the date after I had given it back when there was a fine. I reversed it as it wasn't clear in there correspondence. I have asked for photographic evidence at the time I returned the vehicle as where it is parked isn't where you return the car. They have refused so I'm waiting for the council and my appeal
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Please confirm where you are with this. As I understand it, Enterprise paid the PCN then recharged you which you then reversed leaving them out of pocket. You are a Car Club member.
Their options are to pursue you civilly for breach of contract as they're entitled to do - Letter of Claim, county court claim, mediation and ultimately county court. You'd be facing legal and court costs c £100 in addition to their underlying claim. If you're in dispute, then I imagine they'd also block further bookings as well.
Against this all you appear to have are recollections ('as far as I know'..) and no hard evidence.
You could hope they put this into the 'not worth the effort' file as regards their claim, but I imagine their memory would extend to blocking further hire. Who knows?
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Thanks so much for the reply. Apologies it is the debt collectors not baliffs.
No I used the car as a renter, I am a member of the car club but use their main branch for rentals
Sorry I don't understand what you mean by this?
IMO, we're not getting to the nub of this which is that you refer to bailiffs, but we haven't seen this correspondence. If your car was in contravention, what authority did you have to reverse their continuous charging mandate.
I have asked enterprise for evidence of when I parked the vehicle and they've refused, I assume Richmond may do the same. I have referred to BVRLA thanks. Is it safer to pay whilst I appeal, I have challenged their process adding that court would be the next process before debt collectors. They said the collectors would decide if it's going to court. I still believe it was moved and serviced as the car club bay is at the beginning of the road. I always check it is parked properly and as far as I know that isn't the bay that is shown
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Are you a member of the Car Club?
If so, how much is you making a fuss over this worth?
And if this is contractual as mentioned, and they are stating the terms of the agreement as I was the last renter am I still liable? [Yes, that's exactly what they're saying.] If I did not park in the correct bay I get it, highly unlikely but now I know what they are actually trying to tell me it is possible. I need to see evidence I think of when my rental ended where I was parked.[You're the one with the rental agreement, we cannot help with this].
IMO, we're not getting to the nub of this which is that you refer to bailiffs, but we haven't seen this correspondence. If your car was in contravention, what authority did you have to reverse their continuous charging mandate?
And pl clarify whether you, as an individual, were the hirer or is there an employer/company involved?
The council won't entertain any correspondence regarding this matter, so that avenue is closed IMO. So forget 'appeal' unless perhaps you could engage with an Alternative Dispute Resolution procedure, to which their ECC Ts and Cs refer: http://www.bvrla.co.uk/advice/guidance/using-bvrlas-conciliation-service
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The bay at the beginning of the road nowhere near a double yellow
Sorry I meant the car club bay is at the beginning of the road and clearly marked. I could swear someone from their company moved it, but they rarely clean them lol
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And if this is contractual as mentioned, and they are stating the terms of the agreement as I was the last renter am I still liable? If I did not park in the correct bay I get it, highly unlikely but now I know what they are actually trying to tell me it is possible. I need to see evidence I think of when my rental ended where I was parked. No wonder people can't afford to drive, the fines and fees for being a cm out of the bays are outrageous.
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Bit of a long way around but could I ask the council to confirm the location (photographic evidence) of the car when my hire ended. This is on the road where I should park but looks like it's outside gates and I wouldn't have parked there.
If enterprise have not made me formally liable with the council or sent any rental agreement, or written from a different organisation (as suggested) etc is that any grounds for appeal. I also don't know why I got this month's later. If I'm in the wrong I will hold my hands up but it doesn't make sense to do that. The bay at the beginning of the road nowhere near a double yellow
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Yes sorry typo threatening bailiffs
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I know this will sound insane, but I wouldn't have parked like this, it's not in a bay and touching a double yellow. You have to park in the allocated space so unless I was having an episode and don't remember doing this it wasn't me. They say there have been no other drivers which I guess leaves me liable. I originally misunderstood thinking they told me I drove it a few days after. Think I'm stuck with this one but would never park like that or in a space that isn't allocated for the car ughh!
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Sorry just obscured my personal details now and the last few responses from enterprise
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Thanks so much for all your replies, I soon have to go through each one slowly. Oh sorry thought I had to obscure those details
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Possibly not relevant but there may be another complication with this case.
The OP's rental contract appears to have have been with Enterprise Car Club. However the (overly redacted) NTO is addressed to Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
Google suggests that these are two different companies owned by the same parent, Enterprise Holdings in the USA.
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We like to see original documents so nothing is not as we think
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so did you leave the vehicle at the location stated on the pcn when you finished the hire?
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How could Enterprise be "threatening beliefs"? I assume you meant bailiffs?
They would first have to obtain a County Court judgement against you and then you would have to fail to pay the CCJ. All that assuming the case went against you. Only then could bailiffs be engaged.
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I managed to get the transaction reversed by my bank but enterprise are threatening beliefs
What is Enterprise's latest position in writing? The ball is in their court.
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Please uncover the pcn number and vehicle reg
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In addition please unobscure all dates and locations.
And when exactly did you cease to become the hirer?
Please confirm that the car was returned to and parked in an on-street parking bay?
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Please uncover the pcn number and vehicle reg
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This has nothing to do with parking procedure, it is, as the council's response states, a contractual matter between Enterprise and you. From your account, the issue is whether the last hirer may be held liable for a contravention arising directly out of them leaving the car in a prohibited location/position even when that person's hire agreement terminated* before a PCN was issued.
*- this is a legal issue. It is common practice with some forms of agreement that parties may be bound by enduring conditions even after the term of a contract has expired.
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Morning all,
A strange one. I rented a car for a few days in march and a few months ago revive a PCN stating the above. I did not rent the car for the dates the offence too place but enterprise hold me liable as I was apparently the last person to have the car and they won't accept any other explanation.
I managed to get the transaction reversed by my bank but enterprise are threatening beliefs. I also wrote to Richmond council who say the liability has not been passed onto me by enterprise. If I send them this letter is it enough for them to leave me alone or do I need to draft something else.
Thanks