Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: AndrewC on August 18, 2025, 08:48:00 am
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Thank you for the advice.
I challenged the three PCNs, and they have all withdrawn!!!!
SUCCESS
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Thank you for the advice on Attachments. Here is a close-up of the parking bay suspension sign, https://ibb.co/pBqVJkBc
So in terms of location, it says 'Andover Road, Winchester from opposite no 16 to end of bay'.
Your welcome. For the future, if you scroll down from the image, you come to the BBCode. Copyong and pasting it hear does this
(https://i.ibb.co/zTd9GtTp/A-PCN-JULY-2025.png) (https://ibb.co/pBqVJkBc)
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Thank you for the advice on Attachments. Here is a close-up of the parking bay suspension sign, https://ibb.co/pBqVJkBc
So in terms of location, it says 'Andover Road, Winchester from opposite no 16 to end of bay'.
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You may wish to remove yr name & address from your transcriptions.
You have discovered why the use of attachments is not recommended.
The easiest way to upload docs here (unless you have no mobile phone camera) is to use yr phone to photo each page of each doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploadin the images to an external site like https://ibb.co/ or imgur and copy and post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs.
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What does the suspension sign state pl as regards the location?
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https://maps.app.goo.gl/4TUoGuFEGCkfVVav9 is where I was parked from the 3rd July 2025, after I returned from the regenerative farming festival in Hertfordshire. The vehicle is a camper van I do not use it much, so I did not return to it till after I received the third parking ticket.
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You'll have to look again at posting docs pl, it's explained in the READ THIS FIRST instruction. You tire of writing and we'll tire of trying to read transposed docs.
I'm still fact finding.
What's the location on the sign, I can't reconcile what I think it says(opp. No. 16 Andover Road, Winchester) with Google Street View? Would you post the GSV pl.
(Identify the location on GSV, press the 'send to' symbol at the top of the page, select copy and then paste into your post).
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Hi I don't know why I did not think of this earlier, here is the NTO in the text below.
Best Andrew
NOTICE TO OWNER (NTO)
Hampshire County Council
Parking Services
PO Box 314
Sheffield
S981YA
'r.0333 006 8349
Trafllc Managemenl Acl 2004: The Civil Enforcemonl of Road Traffic Con1ravel\llons (Approved DQll\ll e.lilill'\9\<Jg&,uld9 .J!l; hlo, Provisions) (Englond) Rogulations 2022. Tho Civil Enlorcernen1of Road Traffic Conlravonbons (Represenlotlons andAp1>eals) (England) Rogulollons 2022.
To: Mr Andrew Carnie
11 City Road Winchester SO23 BSD
Date of this Notice to Owner and date of posting: 14/08/2025
This Notice has been served on you because it appears to the Hampshire County Council that you are the owner of
Vehicle Registration Number: G950VUE
Web Code: 873CZ998
Mako: Volkswagen {Colour]: Whi(e
In respect of which vehicle Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) Number PV12246012 was served on 08/07/2025 by Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) 080
who had reason to believe that the following contravention had occurred and that a penalty charge is
payable: 21 - Parked In a suspended bay or space or part of bay or space Date of Contravention: 08/07/2025 Time: 09:09
Location: Andover Road. Winchester
The penalty charge is £70.00. To date £0.00 has been received. £70.00 Is outstanding.
NOTE: The person appearing to be in charge of the vehlcle was served with a penalty charge notice (PCN) which allowed 14 days for payment of a 50% discounted penalty charge; otherwise the full penalty charge became due. Either no payment has been received or any payment received has been Insufficient to clear the penalty charge.
A penalty charge of £70.00 Is now payable by you as the owner and must be paid not later than the last day of the poriod of 28 days beginning with the date on which this Notice is served. This Notice will be taken to have been served on the second working day after the day of posting (as shown above) unless you can show that It was not.
You may make representations to Hampshire County Council as to why this penalty charge should not be paid. These representations should be made not later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which this Notice Is served and any representations which are made outside that period may be disregarded.
NOTE: If you do not pay the penalty charge or make representations before the end of the 28 day period specified above the Council may Increase the original penalty charge by 50% to £105.00 and take steps to enforce payment.
SEE REVERSE FOR:
How to pay. How to make representations.
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Hi, thank you for your response. I am sorry the attached NTO does not appear. I sent the NTO in Reply 12 and 13. Now I seem to have nowhere to make the attachments in this reply, under Attachments and other options, nothing is showing, I am afraid.
It is annoying, as I would have liked to have shared the PDF's of responses to FOI requests I made to Hampshire County Council. I include the texts below
Thank you for your advice about a possible defence
Yours best Andrew
Specifically, I require the following under the FOI:
What date and time were the suspension signs put up in Andover Road?
The sign was placed on 4 July 2025, we do not record times nor hold photographic evidence.
Can you provide evidence of the date and time they were put up?
This information is not held.
Could you please send over any communication, emails, letters, or messages you sent to the operatives who put up the signs, in the days prior to the signs being put up? When did you give them notice to do this? US Information Governance Team
FOI2025/04828
1 September 2025
us.foi@hants.gov.uk
My reference
Your reference
E-mail
Director of Universal Services
Patrick Universal Services
The Castle
Winchester, Hampshire SO23 8UD
Telephone 0300 555 1375
Fax 01962 847055
www.hants.gov.uk
Enquiries to
Date
Mr Andrew Carnie
By email: tram@ndo.co.uk
Direct Line
Please see attached email correspondence.
Some information is considered to be exempt under s40 Freedom of Information Act 2000 (FOIA), as the information consists of third party data.
S40(2) of FOIA provides that personal data of another individual is exempt if its disclosure would breach any of the data protection principles in Article 5 of the General Data Protection Regulation. The County Council considers that the information withheld consists of personal data of third parties and that disclosure would constitute unfair and unlawful processing. This is an absolute exemption and does not require a public interest test.
Can you also provide the timeline of the request from Power On Energy for the Parking Suspension?
Utility company requested the suspension on 17 June 2025, it was approved by Parking Services on 23 June 2025.
Additional request received 21/08: 1. Can I ask other than whether aside from putting up suspension notices on the Andover Rd, did Hampshire Council send out any other messages to residents, ie. text messages, emails, letters warning about the suspension? The council have the information and where with all to do any or all of these, did they do so?
Letters are issued to immediate residents at least 72 hours prior to suspension taking place.
2. What system does Hampshire County Council have to warn people that there is a pending parking suspension, if people are on holiday for several weeks or are in hospital? Are there any meeting notes when this was discussed in establishing the scheme and how it should be implemented?
Letters are issued to immediate residents at least 72 hours prior to suspension taking place. Meeting notes are not held.
3. Where in the terms and conditions when on purchases a residents parking permit is there a section, that effectively a permit should visit their car daily or weekly to see if there is a parking suspension?
This is not applicable to purchase a resident permit; therefore this is not included in the terms and conditions.
We hope you find the information useful.
Yours sincerely
Information Governance Team
Universal Services
From:
Sent: 23 June 2025 14:28
To:
Cc:
Subject: suspension Andover Road Winchester
Attachments: Bay suspension Andover Road- Winchester-07.07.2025 (1).docx
HI
Please find attached for whole of bay, will need approx. 7 signs if doing each post, it’s a long bay.
The bay is mainly Pay and display so no need for resident letter.
The utility company would have sent a letter to addresses confirming works taking place in the area.
Kind Regards
Senior Parking & Traic Enforcement Oicer
Parking Services
Traffic and Safety
Universal Services
Hampshire County Council
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Still no NTOs posted in the thread as far as I can see.
If all 3 were posted 14 August then they're deemed served Mon. 18th giving the last day of the 28-day period in each case as 14 Sept.
In short: you parked on 3 July at which time you say that a suspension sign had not been erected. PCNs were issued on consecutive days 7,8 and 9th. You recovered your vehicle on 9th.
IMO, your statutory defences are:
For PCNs 2&3, that the penalty exceeded....circumstances, these being that the car was stationary between 3rd and 9th and therefore the contravention was continuous and only a single penalty may be demanded;
For PCNs 1,2 and 3, contravention did not occur because the suspension sign was not erected prior to you parking or, as far as your know, even prior to the suspension coming into effect. If the authority contends all or any part of these reps then they must provide proof e.g. timed photos with the signs in situ etc.
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Hi, I hope you are well and thriving. I wonder did you got the NTO I attached before. Any thoughts on it? It would be great to know how to proceed.
Just to note, I am travelling for a few days and camping in remote areas, so my internet might be a bit intermittent.
Very best Andrew
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Here we go
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Therefore deemed served 18th, the same date on which you opened this thread but without any reference to the NTOs.
May we see one of these please.
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The dates all three were posted to me was the 14th of August
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..whose dates are??
If this thread is to have a practical as opposed to purely theoretical purpose we have to have regard to the latest dates for making formal reps.
If these are missed, then in all probability so would your chances of presenting any case to the authority and adjudicator.
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Hi, I have been out all day, hence the delay in getting back to you.
So the PDF I sent you of the PCN's was two pages and included PCN PV1223062 PV1224012 and PV1224056, the one you mentioned.
I have challenged all three, and as the owner and registered keeper of the vehicle G950 VUE, I have now received three NTOs.
Very best yours Andrew
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Can we deal with procedural matters pl.
The PCNs are dated 7,8, 9 July.
You have posted a single rejection to PCN **056 (which they refer to as being served on 24 July, this must be a typo). This refers to separate responses which they would send, thereby implying that you have challenged all 3.
Have you received responses to the others?
I mention this because as you haven't paid, NTOs could be sent to the registered keeper.
Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details? Has the RK received any NTOs.
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Very sorry, I did not understand properly. Here are I hope the three PCNs you wanted.
Did you get the terms and conditions?
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You haven't posted the PCN, all I see is their notice of suspension.
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Hi, Thanks, here is a close-up of the PCN I took when I decided to fight the fine.
Also included is the RESIDENTS’ PARKING SCHEMES TERMS AND CONDITIONS.
It seems to me there is no suggestion I should check my vehicle every day to see if there is a Parking Suspension.
Best Yours Andrew
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I returned to the car late on the 9th July to find three parking tickets on it. They were dated the 7th, 8th, and 9th for parking, where there was a parking suspension notice, which was not up on the 3rd of July.
From HCC's response:
Penalty Charge Notice number: PV12246056
Date of service: 24/07/2025
???
The suspension sign is unreadable. What does it state?
There might be an element of public law in this matter as regards whether the Ts and Cs of the resident permit scheme refer to notice, so pl dig out what you have and post.
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Hi, thank you very much for your response.
I include one of the PCNs I received. The other two are identical. It is ridiculous that they cannot send out the Suspension of Parking notice digitally, by email or Messenger, etc. The councils are certainly happy to send out renewal requests.
Can you point to any documents which confirm that they cannot give more than one PCN for the same offence? Or any other case law that might be relevant.
Very best, Andrew Carnie
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Post the PCNs. Two may be a continuous contravention and so not enforceable, and the first also can be challenged if you parked there before the signs went up.
Does your permit terms say anything about duty to check car.
I only know two authorities that have an alert system for bay suspensions in selected streets - Camden, and Kensington and Chelsea.
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Hi I wonder if anyone can help.
I received three PCN's from Hampshire County Council.
I parked my car late, around 9:00 pm, in zone P, which I have a permit for, on the 3rd of July. I returned to the car late on the 9th July to find three parking tickets on it. They were dated the 7th, 8th, and 9th for parking, where there was a parking suspension notice, which was not up on the 3rd of July. All this time, I have been at home nearby, but have not been going to visit my car as there was no need. The car was parked 10 minutes away on a road distant from my normal daily activity, as I work from home. The tickets were for violating a Parking Suspension for electrical works in the road that, ironically, never appeared to have taken place.
The council have all the information to send me details of any forthcoming suspension by email, letter or text message. None of this was done. A friend has made a FOI, freedom of information, request to find whether there was any correspondence by the council about the suspension, and in response, they have declared there was none.
Is this legally enforceable? I would say I have not been given proper notice. What if I had been on holiday, or ill in hospital, there could be many reasons to not visit my vehicle daily to check for suspension notices.
The system does not work for anyone. If given a digital message that the suspension was coming, I could have removed my car quickly. Instead, my car just sat there gaining tickets.
I am contesting this and have not paid the fine. Any ideas?