Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Non-motoring legal advice => Topic started by: Hroogar on August 07, 2025, 05:07:46 pm
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They would be stupid not to plead it, so they probably will. The real point is that there’s nothing inherently wrong in making a claim that might be time barred.
Just done simpler separate post on this matter. They have until tomorrow to defend. Is that not the same as pleading?
EDIT. Please see immediate post above as post has now been merged. Thank you.
Andy Foster. Thanks for merging.
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Received email to say I have no legal basis under Section 140 of the CCA 1974 to bring a claim against the bank for PPI redress as this was amended by CCA 2006 Para 14 Schedule 3 Transitional Provisions.
I've read them and do not understand them. My loans ended in 1993 and CCA 2006 points to credit agreements in place after 08/04/2008 according to their solicitor. They have asked me to discontinue the claim within 2 weeks. Not sure what happens if I don't.
My understanding of S140 CCA 1974 is that the judge has wide ranging powers to make an order regarding an unfair relationship.
They have also asked for an extension of 28 days saying it would be mutually beneficial. From what I can make out, it would only be beneficial to them to give them more time to file a defence.
I don't want to unreasonably withhold agreement to extend as I understand costs could be transferred to me? Is this correct generally?
Feel like I am up the Creek.
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SP has mentioned that the signal to noise ratio of your posts would tend to disincline anyone who has both the knowledge and understanding from getting involved. In response, you appear to have made a lot of further noise, effectively just bumping the thread by restating the question(s) without addressing the inclination issue, other than by vague ramblings regarding areas that you feel others should be developing for you.
What do you mean by "without addressing the inclination" issue? How do I resolve that?
If we delete the whole thread and start again, what do I need to say?
I feel that the thread as narrowed now to more specific stuff like "what amount do I claim".
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SP has mentioned that the signal to noise ratio of your posts would tend to disincline anyone who has both the knowledge and understanding from getting involved. In response, you appear to have made a lot of further noise, effectively just bumping the thread by restating the question(s) without addressing the inclination issue, other than by vague ramblings regarding areas that you feel others should be developing for you.
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In truth, they cannot have even searched that fast.
Also don't get your hopes up on the documents deleted angle. If the message saying the documents were deleted was in 2020 then I struggle to see how you progress this.
If you have your own copies of the deleted documents then you present them to the court and argue your case on that basis so the bank's alleged deletion doesn't matter.
Having given this further thought, I would assert that they have deleted the copies of the loan agreements that I sent in. They may well have found other evidence that would have bolstered my case such as the bank statements that they have implied in a conversation they would need to see.
I’m not 100% sure I have copies of them from 38 years ago but may well have as I throw nothing out.
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@Southpaw82
Have you any specific advice in what I should be claiming from the bank, redress wise please?
Fees for £1300 are only £80 but fees for over £5k are £455!
So whilst I’ve got nothing to lose I don’t understand whether I should be trying to get the interest on the PPI premiums back as part of the claim or allow the judge to decide
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They would be stupid not to plead it, so they probably will. The real point is that there’s nothing inherently wrong in making a claim that might be time barred.
In terms of concealment it boils down to when you had sufficient knowledge to know you had a claim - or ought to have known. I’m not really sure what relevance the date of any complaint has, other than perhaps demonstrating that by then you had sufficient information to know you probably had a claim.
Although this could get expensive, I feel I do not want to let them get away with it. I think I need to get a claim in now and if that falls by the wayside at least I will learn where a judge is coming from, what standard of proof they require and go from there. I may then well try another claim on the basis of what I learn and based on the latter date of concealment (06/08/2028) providing I receive the audio file from earlier this month where they admitted to deleting documents.
I was going to ask the judge to stay the application to give the bank sufficient time to search and come back with an offer but perhaps that is stupid. Why shouldn't they be put under pressure? My thoughts are that if they are given another 6 weeks to investigate my latest complaint then if they reject that I simply take it to the Ombudsman. Not sure if I have mentioned this before but the Ombudsman has now given me a case number for the 04/09/2019 rejection letter as they wish to triage my case given the extenuating circumstances I have put forward and then possibly open a case. One issue here that the Ombudsman will not take a case on if there is an active court claim. Also the Ombudsman only upheld about 11% of all PPI cases in the last 6 years and with the time bar upon me I feel I have no choice but to make a claim. I shall plead with the Ombudsman to look at the case whilst the claim is stayed and see if they make an exception. Having looked into it, I doubt a judge will stay a claim for a year whilst the Ombudsman looks into it. They will probably say I am chancing it.
When did I have sufficient knowledge? I thought I had sufficient knowledge in August 2019 when the PPI deadline approached but I certainly didn't have sufficient evidence as I had not even found copies of the loan agreements at the time I made the claim. And if I need statements to prove I paid the loans off in full then I currently don't have sufficient evidence now!
The main problems as I see it (and they have hinted at this) is that they will say that they don't have copies of bank statements from 37 years ago or that they cannot now know whether the loans were paid in full. To head that off, I am going to make a DSAR for a copy of the last statement on each loan ie the final month that I had paid and which represents the final instalment payment of each loan. If I ask for all copies of statements from 1988 - 1992 or whenever then they are highly unlikely to want to trawl through a lot of microfiche records and will probably reject the DSAR as too labour intensive especially as I have also recently sent a DSAR in. They could simply reject a second DSAR anyway according to ICO.
I am a hoarder so the likelihood is that I still do have the bank statements although finding them is a different matter. I am trying to get on top of clearing as I am nearing the end of my life (and perhaps sooner than I had anticipated - the question is how long do I have.) I have made the bank fully aware of my circumstances including the tests for cancer (which I have put off for 3 years because of other issues in my life ie the will challenge which you may recall) so they will either kick their heals hoping I will die before it gets to court or they will do the right thing (unlikely).
I did have a root around for the bank statements 6 years ago and couldn't find them. I wonder if my partner in the late 90's threw them away thinking she was doing the right thing and tidying up.
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They would be stupid not to plead it, so they probably will. The real point is that there’s nothing inherently wrong in making a claim that might be time barred.
In terms of concealment it boils down to when you had sufficient knowledge to know you had a claim - or ought to have known. I’m not really sure what relevance the date of any complaint has, other than perhaps demonstrating that by then you had sufficient information to know you probably had a claim.
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Thank you
Wish I had checked for a response before end as I’ve been lying awake worrying about this and other things.
I would love to give them longer to consider their position ie anytime up to Sept next year on basis of relying on the last complaint for which I did not seem to have a response. I am not surprised people won’t sift through it because it is complex and the bank sought to complicate it and deny me the right to redress. Although in fairness my extenuating circumstances should not be their problem.
If I could I would rather not throw caution to the wind and leave it later than this week as I have no guarantee that they will produce that file.
Is a bank (the defendant) really not going to plead a defence? I understand that and assume that is what is meant by advancing it.
Why wouldn’t they? Because £5000 is small fry to them and they don’t losing it? It’s a bank and they are greedy.
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Limitation is a positive defence, i.e. the defendant has to advance it. You can still win a claim past limitation if the defendant doesn’t plead the defence - so in that respect, what have you got to lose (in a small claims matter)?
The important date is when the cause of action arose. That’s the date time started to run.
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Fair enough. Thanks for replying.
It’s a complex case hence why I have posted so much.
Can you offer a suggestion as to what information is needed and how I can improve my post and get people engaged please? I am having tests for cancer this Friday so things right now are not looking too bright.
When you say I have identified the date for accrual is that 27/08 or 04/09? (As before, this concealment for now cannot be proved by me unless they send that recording and even then they might not admit what documents they have actually deleted).
Can I ask a judge to subpoena the agent that said the documents had been deleted? Obviously that is further down the line if the bank don’t play ball).
My other concern is that the bank have asked me if I have bank statements presumably to make me prove I’ve paid all the loans back.
It feels right now that I am onto a loser.
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The reason you’re not getting any advice is because you’re splurging a lot of information, only some of which might be relevant - and equally, some relevant stuff might be missing.
You’ve identified the limitation period - it runs from the date the cause of action accrued. There are exceptions, such as fraud, concealment or mistake - but I for one can’t be bothered wading through what you’ve posted to search for clues.
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This may well be time barred on Wednesday of this week so I would REALLY appreciate some advice.
I sent them a 14 day letter on 12th August. Original complaint raised on 27th August 2019 and they gave their final response on 4th September to that complaint.
Also, I am not sure exactly how much to put on the claim form. The premiums paid were £1382.32 and with simple interest at 15% up to 01/04/1993 and 8% simple thereafter. This amounts to £5111.53 on all of the 4 loans totted up.
Do I actually claim the higher figure or claim the lower figure and rely on the court to add the interest from the date it would have accrued please?
I think the 15% thing was something that the PPI complaints procedure allowed and perhaps not something a court would consider?
I had a response also this week on the DSAR I made to the bank in that they sent me the audio where they admitted to deleting documents BUT they only sent the first 8 minutes I am assuming so as not to incriminate themselves. I spoke the ICO and they said providing you discussed only YOUR data (which I did) then they should be releasing the whole conversation. I have again asked the bank to send me the full audio. Of course, I will either not receive this at all and I may well not receive it before Wednesday.
I spoke with the court also and they said the date of receipt will be the time that it is stamped in. I tried calling Northampton on Friday and asked for a call back rather than hold on and then my bloody phone died so I missed their call.
Does anyone know if I can physically take a small claims court claim to Northampton Business Centre which is why they need to be posted to.
I am really panicking about this potential date of time bar. Can anyone please advice on that PLEASE?
To reiterate complaint made on 27/08/2019, final response given on 04/09/2019 (this is ignoring all the other complex stuff that went off that I believe may well give me an extension either through the bank's misleading practices or the audio recording where the agent admits to the bank having deleted documents back in September 2020 which I only found out about on 06/08/2025 - is this sufficient to be treated as a mistake or concealment under S32 of Limitations Act).
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I had an 'encouraging' call with the bank later on Friday afternoon and the agent said that he "used to deal with PPI claims" and given what I have told him about another complaint letter they sent, giving another reference number, he said "It's not up to me but if I was still working in the PPI Complaints team I would likely open another case seeing as we failed to find any PPI originally". He then intimated that he would offer redress even now. He mentioned that they have to act fairly.
I think, given the fact that I could be time barred in as early as 15 days time, that I have to protect my position and issue some sort of Letter before Claim by the end of today.
The June 2020 letter I found which was only dated June 2020 and did not have the day of the month on it could well give me the right to raise this with the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman has said that their decisions are not technically binding though.
I had hoped that someone was in the position to give their view on the letter I prepared on Friday.
I really do not trust this bank but feel, because I fear the worst case scenario of the time bar being 27th August next, that my current actions are one of panic and constantly badgering them on the phone could perhaps wrongly be construed as vexatious? I would rather give them sufficient time to reply to my latest complaint and give me the evidence I seek from them under the DSAR for the "documents deleted" telephone call.
Their agent on Friday even tried to say that the June 2020 letter was not a complaint and the reference was noted on their system as a "REQUEST" from me. The letter uses the word "complaint" FOUR times and never mentions request.
I just feel they are trying to continue to pull the wool over my eyes. The agent did say he couldn't see the letter on their system and that he thinks it was also linked back to the September 2020 letter (which allegedly linked back to the September 2019 final response). However, the reference number for the June 2020 does not appear in the Sept 2020 letter as being linked to the original complaint despite it saying clearly that "The table below shows a summary of all the complaints we have for you about the mis-sale of PPI".
Clearly it does not show the June 2020 letter which also has no right to refer to FOS and the agent also believed that NO final letter was ever issued on the June 2020 letter.
I really could do with some advice on this please - desperately.
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Potential letter before action in an attempt to get this resolved once and for all.
I really don't want to refer to it as a letter before auction but it seems my hands are tied and I am in a corner potentially on time barring.
Or does the mention of that weaken my position? I've no idea when I will receive the audio file.
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Should I just redact and post my letter to them which I may send as a letter before action for scrutiny? Would that be quicker?
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From a quick skim, your starting point seems to be lets not worry about whether or not you have a valid claim, followed by what appears to be an attempt at a procedural flaw argument, and a discussion of whether or not it would be in their best interests to settle regardless of whether or not you have a winnable claim.
In order to be more concise, you have also omitted either the word "I" or the words "I was" from the sentence starting "Also sent", leaving it to the reader to try to determine which from context.
And the title mentions something about being out of time.
Hi Andy
Thanks so much for merging. Am I able to alter the title?
I love being verbose and I would have preferred the title to be something like "When will I be time barred for the Small Claims Action iro PPI?" but whenever I've been verbose I'd usually get picked up on it on pepipoo...
I have a valid claim in terms of I was mis-sold PPI and I was simply trying to make the post more attractive to respond to rather than offloading everything?
I'll happily answer any and all questions anyone wants to ask.
You've perhaps misinterpreted (in your last sentence of first paragraph) what I've said. Or perhaps you haven't! Let me re-read what I have written. Do I make amendments to the original or will that cause additional confusion. People who have read it are unlikely to re-read it again surely.
Your input is appreciated.
EDIT: I am unable to modify it anyway. There is no modify button on it. Perhaps the merge caused that to disappear.
In order to be more concise, you have also omitted either the word "I" or the words "I was" from the sentence starting "Also sent", leaving it to the reader to try to determine which from context.
That should read "I also sent".
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From a quick skim, your starting point seems to be lets not worry about whether or not you have a valid claim, followed by what appears to be an attempt at a procedural flaw argument, and a discussion of whether or not it would be in their best interests to settle regardless of whether or not you have a winnable claim.
In order to be more concise, you have also omitted either the word "I" or the words "I was" from the sentence starting "Also sent", leaving it to the reader to try to determine which from context.
And the title mentions something about being out of time.
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In truth, they cannot have even searched that fast.
I hate to break it to you, but if they have their records on computers then they absolutely could have.
Also don't get your hopes up on the documents deleted angle. If the message saying the documents were deleted was in 2020 then I struggle to see how you progress this.
If you have your own copies of the deleted documents then you present them to the court and argue your case on that basis so the bank's alleged deletion doesn't matter.
If you don't have them then the question of what documents were deleted will almost certainly be answered with 'we don't know, they've been gone for nearly 5 years'. Which puts you back at square one. Inviting a judge to draw an inference that the deletion proves your case is a strategy best described as brave.
The loan agreements were dated 1988, 1989 and two in 1990. I was reliably informed that that info would be on microfiche.
I do have own copies. Even I am not stupid enough to have sent the originals. The only question is only they know what docs they deleted and assuming I heard correctly BUT you don't mishear the word DELETED and especially as the agent then said, "I don't think I should have read that".
I agree with you. There is no telling what a judge may do. Unless you actually mean "stupid" not brave.
Thanks for your input so far. I need challenging but I also need best advice so it is helpful to me.
The bank will also have to decide if "they feel lucky", will they not? It's added pressure.
I'd rather not raise a claim BUT given at this point that I am unable to determine what the time bar date is then I have no option. The deleted documents portion becomes irrelevant, does it not, if I get it lodged by 27/08/2025?
Can you think of a way to deal with this that is less inflammatory given the time pressure? I'd be open to all suggestions.
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Sorry I was on phone.
So if unable to merge, please let me know and/or I will be guided by you.
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In truth, they cannot have even searched that fast.
I hate to break it to you, but if they have their records on computers then they absolutely could have.
Also don't get your hopes up on the documents deleted angle. If the message saying the documents were deleted was in 2020 then I struggle to see how you progress this.
If you have your own copies of the deleted documents then you present them to the court and argue your case on that basis so the bank's alleged deletion doesn't matter.
If you don't have them then the question of what documents were deleted will almost certainly be answered with 'we don't know, they've been gone for nearly 5 years'. Which puts you back at square one. Inviting a judge to draw an inference that the deletion proves your case is a strategy best described as brave.
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Which of your two threads do you want to keep, and which shall be deleted?
Could you possibly merge please. Southpaw?
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Sadly there is no real way to make this more concise - I don't think. Not without losing some very important info.
For most people, reading copious amounts of information is far quicker and easier than writing it.
So grab a cup of tea and dive in PLEASE! Worst case I'll ask AI to shorten it...
Very astute - if you want to continue posting and receiving advice on here, posting a load of AI-generated bollox is one of the worst things you can do.
Hi Andy.
Thanks for prompt reply.
I need ask AI to shorten it what I had written above and it got it done to 400 words but I didn't really think it helped.
Wanting to check some facts though which it has come back with. ie Section 32 of Limitations Act and, to my feeble mind at least, it could well apply if the audio file does clearly state that they have deleted documents. Something which doesn't actually prove what documents they deleted but it would raise very serious concerns in anyone's eyes (and hopefully a judge would frown upon it).
Did a shorter post earlier which raises questions as to whether this claim would even be suitable for smalls claims track but at least if the time bar was in 4 weeks (and I imagine the judge will confirm that) then at least it is logged. Another stress there is that the court have said this will take 13 weeks to register. I assume that the time bar would run once the application was filed?
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Which of your two threads do you want to keep, and which shall be deleted?
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Sadly there is no real way to make this more concise - I don't think. Not without losing some very important info.
For most people, reading copious amounts of information is far quicker and easier than writing it.
So grab a cup of tea and dive in PLEASE! Worst case I'll ask AI to shorten it...
Very astute - if you want to continue posting and receiving advice on here, posting a load of AI-generated bollox is one of the worst things you can do.
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Hi,
OK. I did a lot of digging yesterday trying to understand all this.
As there have been no responses to my previous post, I am thinking of making a claim in the small claims court and asking for it to be stayed immediately on application for a period of up to 4 months. This will give bank concerned enough time to either deal with the latest DSAR, review my complaint and decide whether or not they wish to make an offer of redress.
I am just trying to encourage them to be swift with the latest DSAR so I am listen to those immortal words I thought I heard. "DOCUMENTS DELETED". Of course, it doesn't prove what documents were deleted but it raises questions.
Section 32 of Limitation Act allows for exceptions and I believe I would have until August 2028 if the audio does say what I think it says. Irrespective, a small claims court application might sharpen their mind.
Does this sound viable and sensible?
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Hi
Sadly there is no real way to make this more concise - I don't think. Not without losing some very important info.
So grab a cup of tea and dive in PLEASE! Worst case I'll ask AI to shorten it...
Ignoring whether they mis-sold me PPI as that is a matter for them, I have calculated that the redress offered should have been £5111.53 (based this on the requisite simple interest calculations and end date of 03/12/2019 ie the best possible outcome for the bank if they were forced to pay).
In a nutshell, made a PPI Complaint by telephone on 27th August 2019 and Bank responded within 4 workings days (4th September 2019). This was a final letter but did not say what product it was for. They simply said they had found no PPI agreements in my name, at my address, postcode or date of birth. In truth, they cannot have even searched that fast. It gave me 3 months to send proof or 6 months to go to the Ombudsman. The reference number was A822xxxx. I do not recall ever receiving this letter.
Also sent written complaint (template letter) on 28th August 2019 by Special Next Day asking if I had PPI on ANY of the following:-
Personal Loans
Credit Cards
Overdraft Facilities
Store Cards
Mortgages
Around end of November 2019 perhaps end of December, sent them all the loan agreements I had but did not give any reference numbers because at the time I sent them I didn't have a reference number.
I received some responses by post but had to chase them down in Feb 2020 for answers. I ended up with 8 reference numbers.
In that February, I made two calls to them chasing up what was happening. They referenced this under a new reference number starting A916xxxx. On 1st March 2020, I made a DSAR stating the original bank account number, the loan values, start dates and durations. In hindsight, I am not sure why I didn't give them the actual agreement numbers and proof of PPI as that is what they were asking for. I think it was because I thought they were playing me and, as I had already sent in copies of the originals, I wanted to see if they would acknowledge that the information now existed. Foolish I know!
They have never made an offer of redress and yesterday I spoke with an agent there who revealed me the following file notes:-
"10/02/2020 - Customer phoned up for an update and asked if we had received docs he sent and wanted to confirm number to each letter and what product each letter referred to. Advice provided no PPI found on any products we checked. Case ongoing and customer will hear from us in due course."
"21/02/2020 - "Customer called for clarification on case. Advised case was ongoing and told would be helpful if he could provide evidence of PPI paid."
"02/03/2020 - Loans info however he is doing a DSAR. Advice was send it in and once we receive DSAR we would respond to that."
"03/03/2020 - Reason for call. Update on case. Agent advised customer case is still ongoing and if any further info is required the case handlers will write and ask for any paperwork relating to the PPI. He has requested DSAR as per call 02/03/2020. Concerned that all the loans would not be looked at. Advised customer that all the loans would be looked at and the case handlers would be in touch."
16/09/2020 - Letter telling me that A916xxxx was now a duplicate of A822xxxx despite them leading me up the garden path in February and March. There was no right on this letter to refer to Ombudsman and it stated that "This includes account numbers, the corresponding complaint reference and the date we sent you our decision letter". No account number was provided as A822xxxx didn't have an account number attributed to it and went on to say "Our records show that this complaint has previously been resolved under reference A822xxxx.". Letter states it contains ENC: LL, CRR. I have no idea what LL and CRR could be.
I never received that letter dated 16/09/2020 but I was told by Financial Ombudsman today that the bank does not have to provide proof of sending. Irrespectively, I received it as part of another complaint reference they provided to me on 6th May 2021.
Then he revealed the BOMBSHELL contents of an internal message which was very revealing:-
16/09/2020 - "Internal message. Set to complete when the complaint was resolved. Documents deleted. So case closed."
He then said, "I don't think I should have read that out!".
It appears that the DSAR of 01/03/2020 was NEVER answered either. I have only just realised this whilst digging.
Today made another DSAR request requesting a copy of the audio of the call above. They have 30 days. Non-receipt will jeopardise me writing a suitably complete factual claim for the small claims court as I want to include the reference to Documents deleted. I've limited experience of small claims court but I would doubt a judge is going to sit and listen to an hour long audio just to hear those words, "Documents deleted". That alone probably takes it out of the realm of a County Court.
I understand that judge would determine it on papers but if hearing is required then additional costs are substantially more and that I expose myself to a maximum of £250 in opposition fees in County Court and that the bar for success is slightly higher.
No redress has been offered.
I have drafted a complaint to them. They have 8 weeks to respond from receipt. Not sent yet.
ISSUES:
1. If claim would be time barred in 4 weeks, I am likely to be out of time for County Court Claim.
2. They may respond in time but not give me the right to escalate it to Ombudsman and even if they do I'll be out of time for a claim perhaps unless I have until 06/05/2027.
3. I doubt they will allow me to escalate the original complaint to the Ombudsman 6 years on.
4. Success rate with FOS is only 11% over last 6 years for PPI claims.
ADVICE REQUIRED.
a) When will it be time barred? Is there a definitive answer for this situation? The bank said there is also a 3 year limit!!!
b) Should I make a specific Plevin complaint and could that be used as a lever to get this reviewed as I have never a claim under Section 140A of the CCA 1974?
All comments welcomed good or bad.
I have extenuating circumstances for not dealing with this but I am not sure they are that exceptional in a judge's eyes but not limited to cancer scare early 2020, COVID-19, diagnosis of Mum with cancer and caring for her full time until she died, then 3+ year battle over her estate as brother dragged her to solicitors to change it 18 days before she died whilst I wasn't there, his subsequent NMO against me, numerous deaths of close relatives (uncles and aunties), constant ruminating thoughts about Mum's solicitor who pillaged her estate for £40k out of £270k and latterly death of my eldest brother who it appears has starved to death at only 34kg and I also have more tests for cancer in 3 weeks because I have neglected my health over the last 5-6 years. On treatment at moment to reduce symptoms and then they will take biopsies.
LIFE IS **** AND I AM NOT IN A GOOD PLACE.
Thank you if you've made it this far. You all have busy lives.