Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Tetreg on August 06, 2025, 06:15:11 pm

Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: b789 on October 12, 2025, 08:11:55 pm
You can copy and paste the following into the web portal as your response:

Quote
Response summary to the operators evidence:

GroupNexus never engages with the pleaded PoFA defects. Instead, they wave the statute around as a talisman, quote 9(2)(f), and hope keeper liability materialises by incantation. It doesn’t. Keeper liability under Schedule 4 is all-or-nothing. Their NtK flunks mandatory content, so the keeper cannot be liable. Everything else (signs, bays, photos) is a driver-only dispute and legally irrelevant once PoFA fails.

1) Keeper liability under PoFA is strictly conditional

Schedule 4 requires full compliance with every mandatory element (including all limbs of para 9(2), plus 9(4)–(6)). “Close enough” or “we mentioned PoFA” is legally meaningless. GroupNexus nowhere demonstrates complete compliance; they merely assert it. Threadbare assertion is not evidence.

2) Fatal 9(2)(a) defects: relevant land and period of parking

a) a) Relevant land
The NtK’s “Liverpool Docks” label is comically vague. “Liverpool Docks” corresponds to the Port of Liverpool waterfront—an enclosed dock system stretching about 7.5 miles along the Mersey, from Brunswick Dock to Seaforth Dock (and mirrored on the Wirral)—not a single car park, road, or site.

It comprises dozens of named docks and waterfront districts, penetrated by numerous public highways and flanked by major commercial and civic buildings. Even UNESCO’s former waterfront inscription (revoked in 2021) defined just a central slice of this area as six separate locations extending ~4 km north–south and ~1 km east–west, covering ~136 hectares (~0.5 sq miles), encompassing landmark buildings such as the Three Graces and dense city streets.

Over two centuries Liverpool built more than 50 docks across roughly seven miles; modern sources still describe around 40+ docks. Describing the location as “Liverpool Docks” is the antithesis of “specifying the relevant land” required by PoFA 9(2)(a). If the operator cannot pinpoint one identifiable car park or site within an urban dock estate spanning miles of waterfront, streets and buildings, the keeper cannot be pinned with liability.

b) Period of parking
GroupNexus’ evidence performs Olympic-level evasion. Faced with a black-letter requirement in PoFA 9(2)(a) to “specify the period of parking”, they serve up… nothing. Not a period, not even a pretence of one. Instead they pad the file with still photos and timestamps of instants, as if POPLA won’t notice that a snapshot is the exact opposite of a period.

This is not a minor nicety; it is a gateway condition for keeper liability. The operator carries the burden to specify an actual span of time the vehicle was parked. They have not even tried.

Their reliance on images and “observed at” notations is legally useless for PoFA 9(2)(a). A single moment does not establish how long a vehicle was parked, whether the driver was in a consideration window reading terms, or whether the vehicle left promptly before a contract could be formed. That is precisely why appellate reasoning in Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions mattered: instants are not periods.

GroupNexus knows this, which is why their “rebuttal” carefully avoids the point altogether. Silence is not compliance. Put bluntly: if GroupNexus could state a period, they would. They didn’t, because they can’t. And if they can’t, Schedule 4 transfer fails as a matter of law. All the bluster about bays and signage is driver-only noise. Without a stated period of parking on the NtK, keeper liability does not even get out of the starting blocks.

3) Waving 9(2)(f) around does not cure 9(2)(a)

They trumpet the presence of a 9(2)(f) warning (“subject to the conditions of Schedule 4”). But that clause depends on all other conditions being met. It’s a warning, not a cure-all. You cannot plaster a 9(2)(f) sentence over a 9(2)(a) hole and call it compliant.

4) PoFA 9(2)(h) failure: creditor not identified

For completeness within the same PoFA ground: the NtK fails 9(2)(h) because it does not identify the “creditor”. The notice is branded “GroupNexus” and says that is a trading name of CP Plus Ltd, yet since March 2024 “GroupNexus Ltd” exists as a separate legal entity. The NtK does not state which legal person is the creditor: CP Plus Ltd (02595379) or GroupNexus Ltd (15560549). Ambiguity between two distinct companies (same directors, same address) is a material failure of 9(2)(h). If they cannot even identify who the creditor is, keeper liability cannot arise.

5) Their “deemed delivery” mantra and 9(2)(f) name-dropping are legally worthless

GroupNexus parrots: “issued 17/07/2025, deemed delivered 21/07/2025... given under 9(2)(f).” That’s not a rebuttal; it’s a confession that they don’t understand how PoFA (or service by post) actually works.

First, timing is a sideshow. Keeper liability lives or dies on content compliance. Even if their deemed-delivery date were spot-on, the NtK still flunks mandatory content under 9(2)(a) (no relevant land; no period of parking) and 9(2)(h) (creditor not identified). You cannot “arrive on time” with the wrong document and expect Schedule 4 to bite. Timing cannot resuscitate a fatally defective notice.

Second, “deemed delivery” is a rebuttable presumption, not a magic stamp. It only arises if the sender can first prove proper posting (correctly addressed, prepaid, posted). If challenged, the burden swings back to the operator to prove posting and, if necessary, actual delivery. Chanting “the contrary has not been proven” is backwards. It is their job to evidence posting; it is not the keeper’s job to prove a negative. This is black-letter: the presumption of service under ordinary post is contingent and collapses when credible evidence of non-receipt is raised or when the sender can’t prove posting. Their staff should know this before lecturing POPLA about “deemed delivery”.

Third, their fixation on 9(2)(f) is legally illiterate. 9(2)(f) is merely a warning clause that keeper liability may follow “subject to the conditions of Schedule 4”. It does not cure missing elements elsewhere. Quoting 9(2)(f) while failing 9(2)(a) and 9(2)(h) is like waving a boarding pass for a flight you never booked. Name-dropping a paragraph is not compliance with it.

Bottom line: (i) They haven’t proved posting; (ii) “deemed delivery” is rebuttable and, in any event, irrelevant to the fatal content defects; (iii) reciting 9(2)(f) doesn’t paper over missing 9(2)(a)/(h) requirements. Their submission on timing and 9(2)(f) doesn’t just miss the point—it advertises that they don’t understand the statute they’re trying to hide behind.

6) Misconceived pivot to signage and bay markings

They devote pages to “clear signage”, “no parking on pavements”, and “not within a bay”. Those are driver-only issues. GroupNexus expressly says it does not know the driver and is “pursuing the registered keeper”. That route exists only if PoFA is strictly met. It isn’t. Once keeper liability collapses, their signage sermon is legally irrelevant to the keeper.

7) Photos are not proof of a period, nor proof of contract formation

Even indulging their diversion: a couple of photos of a stationary vehicle prove neither a period of parking nor contract formation. The consideration period and grace principles (now industry-standard) exist precisely because a driver may pause briefly to read terms and leave. If there is no evidenced period, there is no contract and no breach—quite apart from the PoFA issue already being dispositive.

8) “We say PoFA applies” is not how statutes work

The operator’s entire keeper case is a confidence trick: “PoFA applies because we wrote the words ‘under PoFA’ on our NtK.” Quoting a statute is not compliance with it. Their approach is intellectually malnourished: assertion in, liability out. Schedule 4 demands specifics; they offer slogans.

9) Bottom line

- No specified relevant land (9(2)(a))
- No stated period of parking (9(2)(a))
- Creditor not identified (9(2)(h))
- 9(2)(f) warning cannot cure missing 9(2)(a)/(h) content
- Signage/bay rhetoric is driver-only and irrelevant to keeper liability

Therefore, Schedule 4 transfer fails. The operator cannot hold the keeper liable. POPLA must allow the appeal on PoFA grounds alone.

10) Remedy sought

Allow the appeal. The operator’s evidence does not rebut the pleaded PoFA defects; it merely repeats its own conclusions. Keeper liability is not engaged.
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on October 12, 2025, 06:28:21 pm
I've submitted to popla, and nexus have replied with their evidence. They didn't address the points raised about the NtK being incorrectly written and have instead reiterated about not being parked in a marked bay being the basis for the fine, and have included various photos of signs throughout the docks, and of when i was parked there. I can't post this document here as it is an uneditable pdf with my personal details on it. I need to reply by a week from 6/10/25 (things have been a bit hectic recently so i didn't manage to post earlier).

I was wondering if anyone could please advise me regarding what I might says in reply. Thanks

Here's the text of the document:

The Parking Charge was issued under POFA. In response to the Parking Charge, Mr (removed) - who we are pursuing
as the registered keeper - appealed stating that the NTK is not POFA 2012 compliant and the registered keeper
cannot be held liable.
Rejecting this appeal, we advised that clear signs at the entrance of this site and throughout inform drivers of the
terms and conditions that apply there, and it is not possible to access any part of the premises without passing
multiple signs. Your vehicle was not parked in a designated parking space.
As the keeper did not provide us with details of the driver on the day in question we are pursuing him as the
registered keeper. We can confirm that the Notice to Keeper advises that if the amount requested in the Notice
has not been paid in full (or we have not been informed of the driver's name and current address), the registered
keeper, will, subject to the conditions of, and under the terms of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act
2012, be liable to pay the unpaid Parking Charge.
We can confirm that the Charge was issued on 17/07/2025 and therefore deemed to be delivered on 21/07/2025,
the contrary has not been proven. As such, the Charge was issued within PoFa time limits. We have included in
Section C a copy of the Parking Charge which states the “This Charge is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of
Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.”.
By allowing his vehicle to be parked on the site, Mr (removed( entered into a valid contract and agreed to abide by its
terms and conditions. The ample signage displayed throughout the site advises the terms and conditions of use.
One of the conditions is that you must be parked within the confines of a marked parking bay and that there is no
parking on pavements. The signage advises that a Parking Charge of £100 will be issued when allowing a vehicle to
remain parked outside of a designated bay.
It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure they comply with the terms and conditions of the site. In this case, by
allowing his vehicle to remain parked outside of a designated marked bay and in a no parking area on a pavement,
Mr (removed) breached those terms and conditions.
We have included in section G photographs taken by the warden which show this vehicle parked outside of a
designated marked bay as the driver was parked in a no parking area on a pavement.
We can confirm that the signage is displayed in compliance with all relevant laws and regulations – please see
images and photographs provided in Section F which support this.
Our position remains that we have received no mitigating circumstances or evidence for which we should cancel
the Parking Charge. We maintain Mr (removed) entered into a valid contract and should pay the valid parking charges
as per the signage on the site.

n.b. had a potato moment but managed to edit my name out
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: DWMB2 on August 26, 2025, 04:46:29 pm
One of the key advantages of the forum format is that you can look at other similar cases - do some searching for other POPLA appeals with similar case points, draft something up and show us and we can offer feedback.
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: jfollows on August 26, 2025, 04:08:53 pm
So I’ve appealed both fines, and had them rejected. Do I write the same points again about the errors in the letter or is there anything else I should say for POPLA?
You need to use the same points but lead POPLA by the nose, spelling out the exact contraventions one by one.
So it’s a longer and more exacting appeal.
You will probably get input here with more advice, there’s no hurry.
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 26, 2025, 03:53:53 pm
So I’ve appealed both fines, and had them rejected. Do I write the same points again about the errors in the letter or is there anything else I should say for POPLA?
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: b789 on August 15, 2025, 10:59:53 am
Stop worrying. This will NEVER go as far as a court claim. Even if it did, do you really imagine that these scamming firms who issue over 40,000 PCNs every single day, have the time and resources to scan the internet for a particular case? Of course they don't.

It's not a "CCJ" if a claim is made. Do you have any understanding of how someone gets a CCJ? Nothing we advise on here will make anyone get a CCJ.

Quote
A County Court Judgment (CCJ) does not just happen—it follows a clear legal process. If someone gets a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) from a private parking company, here's what happens step by step:

1. Parking Charge Notice (PCN) Issued

• The parking company sends a letter (Notice to Keeper) demanding money.
• This is not a fine—it’s an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

2. Opportunity to Appeal

• The recipient can appeal to the parking company.
•If rejected, they may be able to appeal to POPLA (if BPA member) or IAS (if IPC member).
• If an appeal is lost or ignored, the parking company demands payment.

3. Debt Collection Letters

• The parking company might send scary letters or pass the case to a debt collector.
• Debt collectors have no power—they just send letters and can be ignored.
No CCJ happens at this stage.

4. Letter Before Claim (LBC)

• If ignored for long enough, the parking company (or their solicitor) sends a Letter Before Claim (LBC).
• This is a warning that they may start a court case.
• The recipient has 30 days to reply before a claim is filed.
No CCJ happens at this stage.

5. County Court Claim Issued

• If ignored or unpaid, the parking company may file a claim with the County Court.
• The court sends a Claim Form with details of the claim and how to respond.
• The recipient has 14 days to respond (or 28 days if they acknowledge it).
No CCJ happens at this stage.

6. Court Process

• If the recipient defends the claim, a judge decides if they owe money.
• If the recipient ignores the claim, the parking company wins by default.
No CCJ happens yet unless the recipient loses and ignores the court.

7. Judgment & Payment

• If the court rules that money is owed, the recipient has 30 days to pay in full.
• If they pay within 30 days, no CCJ goes on their credit file.
• If they don’t pay within 30 days, the CCJ stays on their credit file for 6 years.

Conclusion

CCJs do not appear out of thin air. They only happen if:

• A parking company takes the case to court.
• The person loses or ignores the case.
• The person fails to pay within 30 days.

If you engage with the process (appeal, defend, or pay on time), no CCJ happens.
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 15, 2025, 08:13:24 am
Would mods mind removing this post? The first message may be an issue if it ever goes to ccj
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 10, 2025, 04:09:14 pm
Thanks
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: b789 on August 10, 2025, 12:43:46 pm
Forget the "unclear signage". This will be an easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown driver’s identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

In particular, the NtK fails the mandatory requirement of PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 paragraph 9(2)(a) to “specify the relevant land on which the vehicle was parked”. “Liverpool Docks” is not a single, clearly defined site but a vast and sprawling area covering over 7 miles of waterfront, numerous car parks, roads, and areas of land under different ownerships and operators. The location is so vague that it is akin to alleging a contravention at “London” or “Manchester”. This makes it impossible for the keeper to verify signage, terms, or even if the operator had authority over the exact spot.

“Liverpool Docks” plainly fails to specify any relevant land and is evidence of the utter incompetence of this operator. Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient.

In particular, you have failed to comply with paragraph 9(2)(a) on two separate points, the first one being that by failing to specify the relevant land — “Liverpool Docks” is an absurdly vague term that does not meet the statutory test and does not identify a single, specific car park, road or site. The second point is that there is no "period of parking" stated. As noted in the persuasive appellate court case of Brennan v Premier Parking Solutions (2023) [H6DP632H], without a defined "period of parking", the notice is incapable of holding the Keeper liable.

Additionally, just to prove your firm's utter incompetence, without a specified period of parking, you have failed to evidence that the vehicle remained parked for longer than the minimum consideration period, which means no contract was formed. Good luck with that should you be so stupid as to try and continue with this farcical PCN.

There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Group Nexus has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Group Nexus have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 10, 2025, 09:01:07 am
I’ve tried looking for a generic one but they all seem to be tailored for a particular appeal. Does anyone have a generic appeal I could use please
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: jfollows on August 07, 2025, 11:52:38 am
No, they’ll reject any appeal anyway, you just want a POPLA code, so look for a generic non-compliant appeal on the forum.

I quoted Schedule 4 Paragraph 9(2) above (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4).
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 07, 2025, 11:45:13 am
*particular I meant to say
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 07, 2025, 11:44:34 am
Is there any participles bit of that legislation I should quote in my appeal?
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: jfollows on August 06, 2025, 10:01:21 pm
To be clear, I wasn’t asking how long you were parked for but observing that since the PCN makes no mention of the period, you should appeal on the basis of non-compliance with PoFA 2012, rather than on signage, although when it comes to POPLA you should use all appeal points.
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 06, 2025, 07:40:11 pm
It was left on the road in the picture for about 5 hours on one Sunday and 12 on another
Title: Re: Unclear signage
Post by: jfollows on August 06, 2025, 06:42:16 pm
It’s not a fine, but the parking charge notice does not comply with the requirements of PoFA 2012 to hold you, the registered keeper, liable in place of the driver, who will not be identified. In particular, what is the “period of parking” specified?
Quote
9(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(b) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

That’s probably not the only PoFA failure.
Title: Unclear signage
Post by: Tetreg on August 06, 2025, 06:15:11 pm
Dear all, I recently got two private parking notices a week apart for parking in what looked to me like an ordinary stretch of road. Whilst the sign was present I assumed it referred to the parking spaces immediately behind it rather than the road itself.
The parking fine says I wasn't in a marked bay, but from what I understood unmarked roads are free to park on generally. The double yellow lines are on the other side of the road.
It appears nexus group uses legal repesentaion from DCBL, which seem to have a habit of writing a lot of threatening letters then not actually bothering to turn up to CCJ.
I was considering either appealing or simply ignoring this, but would like some advice on the matter.
If it did reach CCJ would I stand a reasonable change of winning

N.b this is a repost after the other was removed because it has my address visible
Someone asked if had appealed yet. I have not, would there be any utility in doing so?