Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: willowweb on August 06, 2025, 03:59:18 pm

Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on November 07, 2025, 09:18:23 am
This probably isn’t the place to discuss this, but I agree with @b789 about the lack of “life skills” taught in schools; I was lucky in that one ‘humanities’ class taught me the difference between civil and criminal law and the standard of proof required in each.
Most of what we advise is common sense coupled with a process which makes sense when you understand its purpose.
The efforts to educate people who come here are laudable, but still people are terrified of a ‘CCJ’ and refuse to understand it’s under their control. So the parking companies prey on their ignorance, gullibilty and fear.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on November 06, 2025, 03:59:24 pm
[venting-ON] The time taken to research and provide the advice is free. What is not appreciated is when that advice is completely disregarded and and someone pays the scammers, thus becoming part of the problem rather than the solution. I specifically told you not to pay.

It is not and never was a "fine". I blame our shitty education system for not enlightening people at an early age to some very basic facts about their rights and the civil justice system. That "ignorance" is precisely what these rip-off firms rely on and it is an uphill struggle to just educate tiny fraction of recipients of these speculative invoices that they mistakenly consider as "fines" as though they are in breach of some criminal statute and so poop their pants and just pay.

These firms issue well over 42,000 PCNs a day! Yes, you read that right... every single day. We get to deal with a minuscule fraction of that number and in over 99.9% of cases where our advice is followed, not a penny is paid to fund these scamming companies.

So, yes, it is disappointing to hear that yet another victim has succumbed to their ignorance of the system and how to stand up for their rights, especially after time and effort is expended trying to assist them and save them their hard earned money. Now that it has been paid, you will be marked as a "mug" by these companies and you are likely to be scammed again, not necessarily with a PCN although they have your name, address and VRM.

The gullible tree is ripe with low-hanging fruit.[venting-OFF]
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on November 06, 2025, 01:02:24 pm
It happens.
People also come here and seem to expect personal service for their unique problem, which is in fact a common problem well documented on the forum. They get a response, but sometimes it’s going to be terse albeit factual.
Most of the people who contribute to this forum don’t have unique specialised knowledge but are trying to help and have learned by reading and understanding what others have said.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: Kharas1 on November 06, 2025, 12:39:32 pm
The whole industry runs on the fear that threats of fines and potential court action creates in people who don’t have the knowledge of how to fight back. I know for example that it would work in relation to some of my family if I wasn’t there to reassure them.

It’s disappointing when someone finds their way here but then lets this fear over rule the advice and pays anyway. It will happen I guess, but hopefully only very infrequently.

I’ve been involved helping family/friends in a few cases, so only very limited experience compared to our regular posters but over time you do build confidence and get into the rhythm of the nature of the posts. Unfortunately for many I guess a visit here is a one off or at least only very occasional so I can understand why some find the responses more challenging.

But we do have to always remember that the posters here, provide their considerable time and expertise for free and with their help we build a bigger and stronger body of people who can help people fight back against what is an inherently dishonest industry.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: Dave65 on November 06, 2025, 10:32:00 am
Unfortunately, these PPN`s can be stressful to some to work through.

The regulars give their time and experience and sometimes it may seem stressful.

But, it may take this to get the advise over to some posters.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on November 06, 2025, 09:08:07 am
I did send it.  I appreciate the help on here, but you seem to assume that everyone has the same level of knowledge & understanding of these processes and the law as you do.  We don't.  If you are going to give up your time to help, it would be nice if you could do it in a less condescending manner. It's one of the reasons I found it stressful.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on November 05, 2025, 05:31:40 pm
Send the POPLA complaint anyway. It needs to be on the record.

Why would stress over a speculative invoice from a firm of ex-clampers? Maybe I should send you a speculative invoice for £50 and offer you a 20% discount if you pay it within 14 days. They got you thinning, wrongly, that this is some sort of "fine" and you fell for it, hook, line and sinker.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: InterCity125 on November 05, 2025, 12:33:25 pm
Here's a successful appeal at POPLA using the same evidence which you submitted.

Arguably, your evidence was much stronger because we provided reasoning as to why the parking company map was not relevant.


https://onedrive.live.com/?redeem=aHR0cHM6Ly8xZHJ2Lm1zL2IvYy9iNGM0ZGMxNzE1NzRmNmU1L0VibXhFa0hta185RXFRcDlpME1hcmFVQldha2N0c3M4OHJEcGRqNzdYaFJpM2c%5FZT05ZVVVeU0&cid=B4C4DC171574F6E5&id=B4C4DC171574F6E5%21s4112b1b993e644ffa90a7d8b431aada5&parId=B4C4DC171574F6E5%21sb6cab9fc165b4fcdaaaa196d7b793888&o=OneUp
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: InterCity125 on November 05, 2025, 12:19:51 pm
Thanks for this, but unfortunately I didn't see your reply yesterday and I paid the fine.  I found it all very stressful.

Unfortunately, you've been subject to a complex and well worked fraud - you should consider reporting it as such to your bank (assuming that you paid using a debit or credit card.)

This PCN was never a 'fine' - it is in fact a speculative invoice.

Parking companies who operate on airport land know full well that their legal position is very weak. As a result they consistently project a false narrative in an effort to persuade recipients to pay their speculative invoices.

In this particular case, the parking company could quite easily clarify the precise boundary of the area under statutory control... but they choose not to as it is not in their interest to do so. Ditto POPLA.

In your case, POPLA where confronted with conflicting evidence with regard to the area under statutory control - but they immediately took the side of the parking company and discounted your evidence. The POPLA assessor was clearly too lazy to make some simple checks himself / herself. I wonder why that was? Notice how the assessor is very careful to tiptoe around the conflicting evidence - he / she makes absolutely no effort to explain why he / she feels that the parking company evidence is stronger than your evidence.

As well as contacting your bank, you should still submit the formal complaint.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on November 05, 2025, 08:13:39 am
Thanks for this, but unfortunately I didn't see your reply yesterday and I paid the fine.  I found it all very stressful.   
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on November 04, 2025, 05:48:27 pm
You DO NOT have to pay a penny! That decision is NOT binding on you and has no bearing on anything going forward.

Just because a POPLA assessor does not have the intellectual malnourishment to understand the law, does not mean that a judge would not. Not that this will EVER get as far as a hearing. However, you must send formal complaint to POPLA about this decision. Not that it will change it, but it does put them on record for their incompetent assessors and the failures to understand basic principle of civil contract law.

Send the following as your formal complaint and let us know when you receive a response:

Quote
Subject: Formal Complaint – Material Error of Fact and Failure to Engage with Evidence (POPLA Ref: [insert reference])

To: POPLA Complaints Team

I am filing a formal complaint regarding the conduct and quality of adjudication in my POPLA appeal decision. This is not an attempt to reargue the merits, but to highlight clear service failings, factual errors, and a total failure to engage with the rebuttal evidence I provided.

1. The Assessor Ignored Core Rebuttal Evidence
In my rebuttal (Section E), I demonstrated that the operator’s “boundary” map was not an airport boundary plan but a High Court interim protest injunction map. The assessor’s decision entirely ignored this, falsely stating that it was a “map of the boundary of Airport Byelaws”.

The injunction map was never created to define the byelaws boundary. It simply defines land the airport company owns or controls for the limited purpose of an injunction against protestors. The decision shows that the assessor neither read nor understood my rebuttal.

I provided URLs for:
• The injunction map – https://www.stanstedairport.com/injunction/
• The airport operator’s official planning document (Design & Access Statement, July 2023) showing the true airport boundary (page 8 ‘Site Plan’) – https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64d0fc30e5491a00134b5946/Design___Access_Statement_-_checked.pdf

The assessor’s reasoning does not mention or address these sources. Instead, they blindly accepted the operator’s irrelevant map and declared that the site “does not fall within land under statutory control”. That conclusion is factually wrong and legally indefensible.

2. The Assessor Misunderstood Ownership and Statutory Control
The reason Southgate Park is omitted from the injunction perimeter has nothing to do with the byelaws. The omission is due solely to ownership. The land is held by Tabacon Stansted 2 Limited (company no. 06408287), which holds the leasehold title EX22286 for “Plot 4B Southgate, Thremhall Avenue, London Stansted Airport”.

(Companies House record: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06408287/charges)
Tabacon’s own project record confirms it purchased 2 acres at Stansted from BAA in 2007 and let the drive-thru plots to McDonald’s in the South Gate Amenity Area (https://tabacon.webnode.page/projects/stansted-airport-mcdonalds-tabacon-stansted-ltd-and-tabacon-stansted-2-ltd-/).

Because the injunction can only bind land the claimant owns or controls, Southgate Park is excluded. However, the Stansted Airport Byelaws 1996 (https://assets.live.dxp.maginfrastructure.com/f/73114/x/46195467c9/stansted-byelaws.pdf) apply to all land within the defined byelaws boundary, irrespective of ownership.

The byelaws are a statutory instrument under the Airports Act 1986; they do not depend on who owns the land. The assessor failed to recognise this distinction and wrongly equated ownership with statutory control.

3. The Legal Consequence – Land Is Not “Relevant Land”
Under Schedule 4 Paragraph 3 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, “relevant land” excludes any land where parking is subject to statutory control, such as airport byelaws. Ownership is irrelevant; statutory control is decisive.

By accepting an injunction map as proof of exclusion from the byelaws, the assessor committed a material error of law and wrongly concluded that PoFA applies. Keeper liability cannot exist for parking alleged to occur on land within the Stansted Airport byelaws boundary.

4. Requested Actions
I therefore request that POPLA:
1. Conduct a service review for failure to engage with material rebuttal evidence and for misapplication of law.
2. Confirm whether any quality assurance or legal oversight occurred before the decision was issued.
3. Provide a written explanation of:
• Why a protest injunction map was treated as a byelaws boundary plan.
• Why the official airport operator planning document and byelaws were ignored.
• Why the assessor failed to understand the difference between ownership and statutory control.
4. Confirm the name of the assessor and reviewer responsible for this decision.

5. Summary
The assessor accepted an irrelevant document without scrutiny, ignored authoritative evidence, and reached a conclusion contrary to statutory definition and common sense. This represents a clear failure of competence, accuracy, and impartiality. The matter requires internal investigation and retraining to prevent repetition.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
[Address or POPLA Reference]
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on November 04, 2025, 04:10:56 pm
I have just been told my appeal has failed and I now have to pay £100.  Reasons given are below if you are interested:

POPLA is a single-stage appeal service that is impartial and independent of the sector. When assessing an appeal, POPLA considers if the parking operator issued the parking charge notice correctly and if the driver complied with the terms and conditions for the use of the car park on the day. Our remit only extends to allowing or refusing an appeal. The appellant has identified as the keeper of the vehicle on the day of the parking event. As the driver has not been identified, I am considering the appellant’s liability for the PCN, as the registered keeper. I note the appellant claims that the car park is not relevant land and has provided a map of Stanstead Airport to show where the car park is situated. The parking operator has provided a map of the boundary of Airport Byelaws, and I am satisfied that the site does not fall within land under statutory control. Therefore, I am satisfied that the parking operator can pursue the PCN under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA). For a notice to keeper to be compliant with the PoFA 2012, as detailed in section 9.2, it needs to state that if the details of the driver during the time of the contravention are unknown or not provided, then the registered keeper is liable for the unpaid parking charge. It must also have been issued to the keeper within the relevant time period. I am satisfied the parking operator has successfully transferred liability to the registered keeper. I note the appellant has raised that this was not addressed in their initial appeal. POPLA’s remit does not have any authority over the parking operator’s process. If the appellant wishes to pursue any dispute regarding this matter, they will need to follow the parking operator’s complaints process found on its website. The Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice sets the standards that parking operators are required to comply with. Section 3.1.3 of the Single Code of Practice contains the requirements for signs displaying the terms and conditions. The signs must be placed throughout the site, so that drivers have the opportunity to read them when parking or leaving their vehicle. The terms and conditions must be clear and unambiguous, using a font and contrast that is be conspicuous and legible. The parking operator provided evidence of the signs on the car park, which advise that a £100 PCN will be issued to drivers who are not registered within Starbucks for 60 minutes of free parking. The parking operator has provided evidence of a system searches, to show that there was no terminal entry for the vehicle’s duration of stay. The vehicle was captured on site for 35 minutes. The parking operator confirms that at the time the vehicle was on the site, Starbucks was closed, so they would not have been able to register for free parking. As the appellant confirmed they understood there was 60 minutes of free parking on the site, I am satisfied they saw the signs and the terms and conditions were adequately brought to motorists’ attention. The driver of the vehicle does not need to have read the terms and conditions of the contract to accept it. There is only the requirement that the driver is given the opportunity to read and understand the terms and conditions of the contract before accepting it. It is the driver’s responsibility to seek out the signs, and ensure they understand them, before agreeing to the contract and parking. After considering the evidence from both parties, the motorist parked without authorisation and therefore did not comply with the terms and conditions of the site. As such, I am satisfied the parking charge has been issued correctly and I must refuse the appeal. POPLA is not involved with the financial aspect of the parking charge. For any queries regarding payments, the appellant will need to contact the parking operator directly.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 02, 2025, 09:03:27 am
Thank you, I have pasted the response you gave and will wait to hear....
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: InterCity125 on October 01, 2025, 09:28:27 pm
It seems most likely that the difference in maps is down to land ownership / control.

If you examine the contract between the landowner and the parking company you'll see that the parking company's contract is with 'Tabacon Stansted 2 Limited' and not with 'Manchester Airport PLC' (who own the bulk of Stansted Airport) and therefore it would seem that there is more than one packet of land which is under statutory control at the airport.

It therefore seems reasonable that 'Manchester Airport Ltd' only included the land under their control in their injunction attempt v Just Stop Oil - land deemed outside of their control was not therefore included in the 'injunction map' which of course is the map which the parking company desperately use in their communications etc.

Lazy work from the parking company but we know that they are desperate people.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on October 01, 2025, 07:36:47 pm
Below is text you can paste into your POPLA “Comments on operator evidence” box. It keeps the original point intact, adds the operator-pack rebuttal, includes HTML links to each map source, and explains why there can be no keeper liability.

Quote
Section E – Operator’s map and boundary claim

The operator’s “boundary” plan in Section E is not an airport estate boundary at all. It is a red-line taken from a High Court interim protest injunction that defines where protest-control measures apply for a limited legal purpose and period. The Order itself defines “Stansted Airport” only as “the land shown…on Plan 2 to the Claim Form,” and it includes review and service provisions (e.g. notices at locations marked “X”) that underline its narrow, enforcement nature. See:

https://www.stanstedairport.com/injunction/

This is not an operator boundary plan, does not purport to fix the airport’s statutory/operational extent, and is therefore irrelevant to the “relevant land” analysis under Schedule 4 PoFA.

By contrast, the appellant’s map is drawn from the airport operator’s own planning submission—the Stansted Terminal Extension Design & Access Statement (July 2023)—which describes the airport landholding and shows the site plan used by the operator and the planning authority to define the estate context (“the land within the airport’s boundaries is approximately 957 hectares”). This is precisely the type of authoritative operator material POPLA should prefer when understanding the airport boundary as a whole. Source:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64d0fc30e5491a00134b5946/Design___Access_Statement_-_checked.pdf (page 8, ‘Site Plan’).

Accordingly, POPLA should dismiss the injunction red-line as a litigation exhibit with a limited purpose and no bearing on the airport estate’s full extent, and instead rely on the operator’s own planning document for boundary context. On that basis—and as shown in the appellant’s evidence—Southgate Park sits within the airport estate notwithstanding any narrower area delineated for protest-injunction enforcement.

Keeper liability (PoFA) cannot arise. Schedule 4 only applies on “relevant land”. Land subject to statutory control/byelaws (such as airport land within the operator’s boundary) is excluded from the definition of “relevant land”, so PoFA keeper liability is unavailable. The operator has not produced any operator or planning-authority boundary plan that displaces the airport operator’s own material; instead they rely on a protest-injunction map that is not a boundary instrument. POPLA should therefore find that this site is not “relevant land” and that the keeper cannot be held liable under Schedule 4 PoFA.

For ease of reference:

Operator’s injunction map – https://www.stanstedairport.com/injunction/

Appellant’s authoritative boundary/context map – https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64d0fc30e5491a00134b5946/Design___Access_Statement_-_checked.pdf

Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: InterCity125 on October 01, 2025, 06:44:08 pm
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64d0fc30e5491a00134b5946/Design___Access_Statement_-_checked.pdf


Scroll to page 8 for existing site plan.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on October 01, 2025, 05:11:18 pm
Link for reference: https://assets.live.dxp.maginfrastructure.com/f/73114/x/df8f2e7b97/stn-injunction-stansted-airport-court-order.pdf?_gl=1*vi0z7d*_gc_au*NzgzOTEyMzEzLjE3NTkxNjMzNDE  (https://assets.live.dxp.maginfrastructure.com/f/73114/x/df8f2e7b97/stn-injunction-stansted-airport-court-order.pdf?_gl=1*vi0z7d*_gc_au*NzgzOTEyMzEzLjE3NTkxNjMzNDE)

I'm not convinced by their inference that the map in that court order is a map defining the boundaries for the application of byelaws. It identifies the land that is to be considered "Stansted Airport" for the purposes of that case, which would seem to be a different matter. It's hard to see how that map would amend or supercede any map that forms part of the byelaws.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 04:59:16 pm
The only way I could do it was to print off the rest of the document and scan it.  Please see here:

https://ibb.co/yBPxBd6k
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 04:47:45 pm
I think the document is too large.  I just tried uploading the full doc but the last pages are not viewable.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 04:44:29 pm
I have realised that the link does not show the full objection document .  I don't have Adobe and I can't download the full thing to save it. 
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on October 01, 2025, 04:42:06 pm
But where is that within the evidence pack? And where is the 'link' they refer to?
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 04:36:34 pm
I thought it was included.  Please see here;

https://ibb.co/zhVLnTq2
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on October 01, 2025, 04:23:41 pm
That’s readable, thanks, but does not include
Quote
We have included in section E a map showing the boundary of Stansted Airport, from which it is clear the area occupied by Southagte Park, outlined in yellow, is not part of the Airport.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on October 01, 2025, 04:23:02 pm
None of the pages in section E reference this:
Quote
a map showing the boundary of Stansted Airport, from which it is clear the area occupied by Southagte Park, outlined in yellow, is not part of the Airport. This map is the most recent version and was submitted to the High Court last year, as evidenced by the link provided in section E.
Where is that map and the link to which they refer?
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 04:09:05 pm
Actually that wasn't working, please try this:

https://ibb.co/jvtB7VCf
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 04:03:01 pm
will try again
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on October 01, 2025, 03:53:56 pm
I get
Quote
That page doesn't exist
The requested page was not found.
when I follow the link above.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 02:43:30 pm
I simply said that I could not work out how to do it, not that it could not be done.  I've managed it now.  The link to the whole appeal and evidence is below:

https://ibb.co/vvLZTJdfhttps://ibb.co/Xfkgd6tp
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on October 01, 2025, 02:21:32 pm
Sorry, but that is rubbish. Of course you can redact personal info. There are thousands of examples on here of redacted documents. You only need to redact your name and address, email or phone number. Everything else is not important as far was redacting is concerned. If you want to redact the PCN number and your VRM, then you can also do that but it really does not make a difference overall.

I need to see what they have provided as their evidence that they claim makes the land relevant. I need to see all documentation for that including the map they claim that are using as reference.

This is VERY important that we get to see this:

Quote
Please also see a full explanation of why we may pursue the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 in Section C of our evidence pack. The Stansted Airport byelaws do not impose a penalty for vehicles parking within Southgate Park. We have included in section E a map showing the boundary of Stansted Airport, from which it is clear the area occupied by Southagte Park, outlined in yellow, is not part of the Airport. This map is the most recent version and was submitted to the High Court last year, as evidenced by the link provided in section E. In light of this, the site is not excluded by the definitions laid out in paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such is considered Relevant Land. • Appeal points not addressed As demonstrated in section E, we addressed the appellant’s points regarding the airport byelaws.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 10:29:30 am

https://ibb.co/vvLZTJdf

thanks please let me know if that link works.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on October 01, 2025, 10:05:24 am
Guide: Posting Images (https://www.ftla.uk/announcements/posting-images/msg92236/#new)
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 08:40:59 am
I can't work out how to attach a document or screenshot here. 
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on October 01, 2025, 08:37:01 am
The evidence pack includes the personal details of the keeper so I can't make it publicly available. It's a huge pdf and I can't delete or amend it.  I've amended the text below and I'll try to attach a screenshot of the map that they are using as evidence.

The keepr raises the following grounds for appeal:

No keeper liability As we have not been provided with the name and address of the driver of the vehicle, we are pursuing the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.  Please see our compliant Notice to Keeper in Section B of our evidence pack.
Please also see a full explanation of why we may pursue the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 in Section C of our evidence pack.

The Stansted Airport byelaws do not impose a penalty for vehicles parking within Southgate Park. We have included in section E a map showing the boundary of Stansted Airport, from which it is clear the area occupied by Southagte Park, outlined in yellow, is not part of the Airport. This map is the most recent version and was submitted to the High Court last year, as evidenced by the link provided in section E.
In light of this, the site is not excluded by the definitions laid out in paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such is considered Relevant Land.

Appeal points not addressed As demonstrated in section E, we addressed the appellant’s points regarding the airport byelaws.
 
Inadequate evidence of clear and prominent signage. The free 60-minute parking period is only available to motorists whilst they are a customer of Southgate Park (Starbucks). At the time the vehicle was on site Starbucks was closed and therefore the driver was not a customer. As such, they were not entitled to the free parking period and payment was required for their stay. For the sake of clarity: this would not qualify under F.3(g) of the Appeals Charter as there was no free stay at the time. All motorists were required to make payment to park on site. We are confident that there are sufficient signs in place in this car park, that the signs are prominently displayed and clearly state the terms and conditions, and that our signage complies with all relevant legislation and regulations.
In Section E of our evidence pack we have included images of the signs in place and a site plan of the location. A motorist does not have to have read the terms and conditions of parking to enter into a parking contract, there is only the requirement that the parking operator affords them the opportunity to do so. As stated, we are confident that there is sufficient signage at the site in order to afford motorists the chance to read the terms and conditions that are in place.
Upon entry to the site, it is the motorist’s obligation to seek out any terms and conditions that may be in place before choosing to park or remain on site. In summary, the terms and conditions of parking are clearly stated on the signs that are prominently displayed at the entrance to and around the car park. These include that there is a 60-minute free stay for Southgate Park customers and tariffs apply thereafter. Please note: as the parking event occurred while the on-site business was closed, there is no free stay. Should the driver have wished to use the car park while the business is closed, they should have paid the appropriate tariff.
 As the evidence we have provided in Section E of our evidence pack demonstrates, the vehicle remained in the car park without payment having been made. It remains the driver’s responsibility to check the signs where they park and comply with the stated terms and conditions. Therefore, we believe that the charge notice was issued correctly, and the appeal should be refused.  
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on September 30, 2025, 06:36:38 pm
Yes, a few carriage returns or paragraph breaks would be helpful. I simply don’t want to read what you have posted.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on September 30, 2025, 05:40:07 pm
Please host their evidence pack on something like Google Drive (make the file publicly available). I would need to see this new evidence they claim they have that says the land at Southgate Park is not relevant for the purposes of PoFA.

Without that, I can't give you anything to respond to. You have 7 days to respond so do not waste time.

ALso, in future, please edit their response so that we don't have to read a wall of text.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on September 30, 2025, 04:00:25 pm
MET parking has submitted the following objections to my appeal.  Are you able to help me challenge these please?  I am not sure that the parking sign states that you do not have to pay when the shops are closed, but I have no evidence of that.

The keeper raises the following grounds for appeal: • No keeper liability As we have not been provided with the name and address of the driver of the vehicle, we are pursuing the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Please see our compliant Notice to Keeper in Section B of our evidence pack. Please also see a full explanation of why we may pursue the registered keeper under Schedule 4 of PoFA 2012 in Section C of our evidence pack. The Stansted Airport byelaws do not impose a penalty for vehicles parking within Southgate Park. We have included in section E a map showing the boundary of Stansted Airport, from which it is clear the area occupied by Southagte Park, outlined in yellow, is not part of the Airport. This map is the most recent version and was submitted to the High Court last year, as evidenced by the link provided in section E. In light of this, the site is not excluded by the definitions laid out in paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such is considered Relevant Land. • Appeal points not addressed As demonstrated in section E, we addressed the appellant’s points regarding the airport byelaws. • Inadequate evidence of clear and prominent signage The free 60-minute parking period is only available to motorists whilst they are a customer of Southgate Park (Starbucks). At the time the vehicle was on site Starbucks was closed and therefore the driver was not a customer. As such, they were not entitled to the free parking period and payment was required for their stay. For the sake of clarity: this would not qualify under F.3(g) of the Appeals Charter as there was no free stay at the time. All motorists were required to make payment to park on site. We are confident that there are sufficient signs in place in this car park, that the signs are prominently displayed and clearly state the terms and conditions, and that our signage complies with all relevant legislation and regulations. In Section E of our evidence pack we have included images of the signs in place and a site plan of the location. A motorist does not have to have read the terms and conditions of parking to enter into a parking contract, there is only the requirement that the parking operator affords them the opportunity to do so. As stated, we are confident that there is sufficient signage at the site in order to afford motorists the chance to read the terms and conditions that are in place. Upon entry to the site, it is the motorist’s obligation to seek out any terms and conditions that may be in place before choosing to park or remain on site. In summary, the terms and conditions of parking are clearly stated on the signs that are prominently displayed at the entrance to and around the car park. These include that there is a 60-minute free stay for Southgate Park customers and tariffs apply thereafter. Please note: as the parking event occurred while the on-site business was closed, there is no free stay. Should the driver have wished to use the car park while the business is closed, they should have paid the appropriate tariff. As the evidence we have provided in Section E of our evidence pack demonstrates, the vehicle remained in the car park without payment having been made. It remains the driver’s responsibility to check the signs where they park and comply with the stated terms and conditions. Therefore, we believe that the charge notice was issued correctly, and the appeal should be refused.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on September 09, 2025, 08:57:41 am
I was told to post the draft appeal for checking before making it.
Thanks
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on September 08, 2025, 06:07:43 pm
Why would your case be any different? Just submit that appeal.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on September 08, 2025, 02:26:45 pm
I have found the below text for the POPLA appeal and entered my details (which I've removed for this thread).  Please see below draft - could you let me know if it is correct for my case?  Thank you.   


This is an appeal by the Keeper of the vehicle and I raise the following points for POPLA to consider:

1. The Location is Not 'Relevant Land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)
2. Failure to Address Appeal Points
3. Inadequate Evidence of Clear and Prominent Signage
4. No Legal Obligation to Identify the Driver or Assumption of Driver Identity

Grounds for Appeal:

1. The Location is Not 'Relevant Land' under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA):

The alleged contravention occurred at Southgate Park, which is located within the boundary of Stansted Airport. This boundary is confirmed by a Stansted Airport-issued map provided with this appeal. Stansted Airport is governed by airport byelaws, which constitute statutory control over the land. Paragraph 3(1)(c) of Schedule 4 of PoFA explicitly states that "relevant land" excludes any land that is "subject to statutory control," such as land covered by byelaws. Therefore, Southgate Park is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA.

While the land may be private and MET Parking Services may have been contracted by the landowner’s agents to manage the car park, this does not negate the fact that it is within the airport boundary and subject to byelaws. The existence of byelaws over the land places it under statutory control, as established by law. MET Parking Services’ argument that the land is not covered by byelaws is incorrect and does not override the statutory framework. As a result, MET Parking Services cannot rely on PoFA to transfer liability to the registered Keeper. They can only pursue the driver, whose identity has not been disclosed. As the Keeper, I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver, and there can be no Keeper liability in this case.

2. Failure to Address Appeal Points:

In my initial appeal to MET Parking Services, I specifically raised the issue of the site being under statutory control and therefore not relevant land under PoFA. Despite this, MET Parking Services failed to address this critical legal argument in their rejection. Instead, they dismissed the appeal without engaging with the evidence or addressing the legal basis of my argument. This omission suggests their decision to reject my appeal was not based on a proper consideration of the facts or the applicable legal framework.

3. Inadequate Evidence of Clear and Prominent Signage:

MET Parking Services has not provided sufficient evidence that the terms and conditions were clearly displayed and visible to motorists. For a driver to have agreed to any contractual terms, the signage must have been legible, prominently positioned, and capable of being read before entering into a contract. Without evidence of the signage’s visibility and clarity at the time of the alleged contravention, the claim is unsubstantiated.

4. No Legal Obligation to Identify the Driver or Assumption of Driver Identity:

As the registered Keeper of the vehicle, I am not legally obligated to identify the driver. MET Parking Services has provided no evidence to identify the driver at the time of the alleged contravention. Since liability cannot be transferred to the Keeper under PoFA due to the site’s statutory control, MET Parking Services must pursue the driver—if they can identify them. Without such identification, their claim against the Keeper is baseless.

Furthermore, the POPLA assessor must not assume or infer that the Keeper was also the driver. There is extensive persuasive case law on this matter. In VCS v Edward H0KF6C9C [2023], HHJ Mark Gargan in his conclusion, stated in paragraph 35.3:

“It is consistent with the appropriate probability analysis whereby simply because somebody is a registered keeper, it does not mean on balance of probability they were driving on this occasion, because one simply cannot tell. For example, there will be companies who are registered keepers of vehicles where many drivers have the use of the vehicle from time to time. There will be individual employers who are the registered keeper but who allow a number of people to drive their vehicles. There may be situations where husband and wife are each registered keepers of their respective vehicles but for some reason drive the other. These are all possibilities which show that it is not appropriate to draw an inference that, on balance of probability, the registered keeper was driving on any given occasion.”

The appellant is explaining this point in detail because some assessors have in the past erroneously allowed MET Parking Services to claim that the Keeper was likely the driver without any evidence. MET attempts to mislead assessors by relying on a misleading and erroneous note in Annex C of the BPA/IPC Private Parking Single Code of Practice, which states:

“Liability
It is the driver that is liable for the parking charge.
NOTE: The driver is often the same person as the keeper and/or the hirer. Where a keeper or hirer fails or refuses to provide the name and serviceable address of the driver when requested to, it may be assumed they are the driver, based on that failure or refusal.”

This statement is contrary to the law, as explained in VCS v Edward. The Keeper’s refusal to identify the driver does not permit any assumption of driver identity. Any such inference would be legally baseless and improper. POPLA assessors must adhere to established legal principles and not be misled by incorrect interpretations provided by rogue parking operators.

Conclusion:

Southgate Park’s location within Stansted Airport places it under statutory control and excludes it from being considered relevant land under PoFA. The wording of Paragraph 3(1)(c) of Schedule 4 of PoFA is clear: land subject to statutory control, such as land covered by byelaws, is not relevant land. The official map of the airport boundary provided with this appeal confirms this fact beyond any doubt. Additionally, the registered Keeper cannot be assumed to be the driver, as supported by persuasive case law. MET Parking Services cannot hold the registered Keeper liable for the alleged parking charge. Their failure to address this fundamental point in their rejection of my initial appeal further demonstrates the inadequacy of their claim. I therefore request POPLA to uphold this appeal and instruct MET Parking Services to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.



Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on September 08, 2025, 02:14:24 pm
Thank you very much for posting.  Are you able to provide the text that you wrote to make the appeal? 
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: frenchgooner on August 29, 2025, 09:03:37 pm
got my appeal result today, it was successful so thought i'd post the appeals summery

I am allowing this appeal for the following reason: When an appeal comes to POPLA the burden of proof begins with the operator to evidence that the PCN has been issued correctly. In this case the operator has issued the PCN to the driver for parking without authorisation. The driver has not been identified, and the operator must meet the requirements set out in the Protections of Freedoms Act (POFA) 2012 to transfer liability to the keeper however, POFA can only be used on relevant land. The PCN has been issued on land under statutory control as airport land is not considered relevant land unless the parking operator can demonstrate otherwise. Section 3 (1) (c) of POFA 2012 discusses the relevant land definition below: “3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than— (a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980); (b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority; (c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.” The parking operator has attempted to demonstrate that the land on which the vehicle was parked is in fact relevant land by advising that the Stansted Airport byelaws do not impose a penalty for vehicles parking within Southgate Park and quote Section 3 (3) which advises: "(3) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)(c) the parking of a vehicle on land is “subject to statutory control” if any statutory provision imposes a liability (whether criminal or civil, and whether in the form of a fee or charge or a penalty of any kind) in respect of the parking on that land of vehicles generally or of vehicles of a description that includes the vehicle in question." The appellant has then reviewed the operator’s evidence and questioned whether this claim is sufficient as there are penalties imposed on the land under said byelaws within The Stansted Airport - London Byelaws, 1996. Having reviewed the same document I can confirm that penalties are being imposed on the land to vehicles as stated in Section 2, 5(3), 6(1) and 6(3) of the byelaws as provided by the operator. They have provided no evidence that shows that the area of Southgate Park does not fall within the airport jurisdiction. I am therefore satisfied that the land can be considered under statutory control. The operator has not demonstrated that this is relevant land and POFA 2012 therefore cannot be applied in this instance. As such, the PCN is invalid as liability cannot be transferred without using POFA 2012. I am therefore not satisfied that the PCN has been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must allow the appeal. I acknowledge that the appellant has brought other grounds of appeal and evidence to POPLA, but as I am allowing this appeal based on the reasoning above, there is no requirement to address the additional evidence and grounds as they will not affect the outcome of this appeal.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 27, 2025, 04:55:20 pm
Thank you
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on August 27, 2025, 04:31:18 pm
You could just wait for the 14 day 'hold' to expire and for them to reject your appeal.

In the meantime, I would recommend doing some searching on this forum for other PCNs issued at this same site. You will see examples of POPLA appeals that you will be able to use almost verbatim to draft up one for your own case (don't submit without showing us a draft).
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 27, 2025, 09:42:13 am
Do I just need to wait for them to reject the appeal or do I reply to them now?
Thanks
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on August 27, 2025, 09:02:52 am
Nobody has been aggressive towards you. This is a busy forum where people offer advice for free. The advice will sometimes be brief, which may appear blunt.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 27, 2025, 07:41:49 am
I appreciate your help but you don't need to be quite so aggressive in your answer!  Please understand that you know a lot more about this than the people asking these questions, we are just trying to fully understand the situation and our position and make sure we don't get fined.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on August 26, 2025, 04:01:23 pm
Ignore the moronic scammers at MET. They always claim that Southgate Park is not covered by byelaws but no matter how they squeal over it, it does not alter the fact that the land is under statutory control because it is within the boundary of Stansted Airport. Any land under statutory control is not relevant for the purposes of PoFA, which means they cannot hold the Keeper liable, only the driver who is unknown to them unless the Keeper blabs it, inadvertently or otherwise.

When they reject the appeal, you can appeal to POPLA with an easy appeal, which if you do a search of the forum for 'Stansted' and you will find many POPLA appeals for this location which include this boundary map of the airport, showing clearly that the location is within the statutory boundary and is therefore covered by airport byelaws and is therefore no relevant for the purposes of PoFA:

(https://i.imgur.com/8aRkbjb.jpeg)
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on August 26, 2025, 03:53:17 pm
They are saying that it wasn't incurred at the airport but at Starbucks, is that still not relevant land?
thanks
No, it is within the defined airport boundary and therefore not ‘relevant land’.
They lie because then you might just pay up. They are only interested in your money.
Why do you believe them, with a vested interest so large that it will block the sun, rather than those of us here who try to help you and have nothing apart from personal satisfaction to gain from it?
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 26, 2025, 03:38:40 pm
They are saying that it wasn't incurred at the airport but at Starbucks, is that still not relevant land?
thanks
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on August 26, 2025, 03:08:57 pm
No, that is the full message (other than the ABN detail and the registration/ keeper details)
So it looks like the last ditch fishing attempt to get you to identify the driver. Rejection plus POPLA code should be next.
POPLA has repeatedly upheld appeals since it’s not “relevant land” so as long as the driver is not identified and POPLA is led by the nose it should do so again. Just search here for large numbers of similar cases.
Put
Stansted
into the search box.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 26, 2025, 02:29:10 pm
No, that is the full message (other than the ABN detail and the registration/ keeper details)
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: DWMB2 on August 26, 2025, 02:23:54 pm
Have they provided a POPLA code?
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 26, 2025, 02:18:44 pm
I have received the below response regarding this ticket, can you please advise how I should respond?  Apart from anything else, I understand there should be 60 minutes free parking at this car park?

Site: (346) Southgate Park
Issue date: 24/07/2025
Thank you for your correspondence in respect of the above charge. The charge was not incurred at the Airport, it was
incurred at Southgate Park (Starbucks) as the store was closed at the time and no payment was made for your stay.
If you would like to add additional comments to your appeal this can be uploaded at www.appealmetparking.com. We
have placed your charge on hold for a further 14 days to allow you time to do so. If we do not receive a response by the
end of the 14 days, we will have to reach a decision on your appeal based on the information we hold at that time.
We are confident that our notice to keeper complies in all respects with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms
Act and you are advised that where the charge has not been paid in full and 29 days has passed since we issued the
charge and we still do not know the name and address for service of court papers of the driver, we are entitled to pursue
the registered keeper for payment of the outstanding charge.
Yours sincerely
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2025, 04:50:45 pm
NO!!!! The ONLY person who can be dealing with this is the person named on the Notice to Keeper (NtK). That is going to be the Keeper. If YOU are not the Keeper, but you want to handle it on behalf of the Keeper, then you MUST do it as the Keeper.

You cannot say something like "I am appealing on behalf of the Keeper, my aunty Ethel" or whoever. If the Keeper is your aunty Ethel, then you do EVERYTHING in the name of aunty Ethel.

No one is going to know that the Keeper didn't ACTUALLY respond. Who cares? As long as it is the Keeper responding, then it matters not who actually responds.

The Keeper must ONLY refer to the driver in the third party. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that".

MET have NO idea who the driver is unless the Keeper blabs it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. ONLY the Keeper can be liable for the PCN and there is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 06, 2025, 04:43:11 pm
I presume you are not saying that I would have to say that I am the keeper (as that is false)  Would I reply that i am challenging in the name of the keeper?
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2025, 04:39:37 pm
You can send it from any email address you like. Why would you ask? As long as you can receive replies to the email address you use, it matters not.

However, if you are doing this on behalf of the Keeper, everything must be done in the name of the keeper. DO NOT try and do anything as someone "on behalf of the Keeper".
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 06, 2025, 04:37:51 pm
sorry, one more question.  I am doing this on behalf of the registered keeper.  Is it ok to send it from my email address or does it have to be from the keeper's?
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 06, 2025, 04:36:55 pm
Thank you I will send this and wait for their POPLA code
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: b789 on August 06, 2025, 04:33:43 pm
Easy one to deal with… as long as the unknown drivers identity is not revealed. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The location is not relevant land for the purposes of PoFA, which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove anything from it:

Quote
I am the registered keeper. MET cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, MET will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Stansted Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Stansted Airport wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Bylaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because MET is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for MET's own profit (as opposed to a bylaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and MET has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. MET have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Come back when they reject that for your POPLA appeal.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on August 06, 2025, 04:10:25 pm
However, surely the PCN identifies the precise location?

https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map/idld?x=554831&y=222055&z=110&sv=554831,222055&st=4&mapp=map%5BFS%5Didld&searchp=ids&dn=651&ax=554831&ay=222055&lm=0 shows it to be within the airport boundary based on the postcode in the notice.

I attach a map of the airport boundary from one of the other posts here.
Title: Re: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: jfollows on August 06, 2025, 04:06:53 pm
Don’t identify the driver, and the statement about the right to recover from the registered keeper is untrue because this is not ‘relevant land’ for the purposes of the legislation.

There are many appeals here on this basis.

MET will dismiss the appeal, but provide a POPLA code which can be used with a more detailed appeal to find in your favour.
Title: MET Stansted PCN not sure which car park
Post by: willowweb on August 06, 2025, 03:59:18 pm
My daughter and her friend parked at Southgate Stansted for 25 minutes.  They paid on the way out as apparently they could not leave the car park without paying, yet this PCN has been issued.  They cannot remember exactly where they parked (eg if it was outside Mcdonalds, Starbucks, or elsewhere) but from what I can tell, there is at least 30 minutes free parking wherever they parked at this car park.  I haven't seen anyone else refer to being required to pay at the exit, however.  Can you advise how to challenge this please?