Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Naomi_Brooks on August 06, 2025, 03:21:34 pm
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Do you think this will suffice as a response?
would like to appeal this PCN on the following grounds:
1) A procedural impropriety.
The payment period of 28 days applies to moving traffic contraventions.
2) The contravention did not occur.
The alleged contravention operates at right-angles to road markings. There aren't any loading blips either to the immediate rear of the van or to its nearside (the restriction stops ahead of the vehicle and terminates at a slab of concrete, indicated by termination markings i.e. it doesn't run 'under the concrete')
If the area was a square with four quadrants, the van is in the lower left, the bins and hardstanding in the lower right (no markings), the upper left is vacant road, and the upper right is where the double yellow lines and loading restrictions end. Immediately to the left of the lower left quadrant is where double yellow lines and no loading end.
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I understand now why your profile has hero status! Thank you for your knowledge, time, and patience!
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There's no need to dance around matters, this is not a private parking issue. Your earlier posts did not make clear that as regards these procedures you and the company are the same because you have authority and all matters are conducted on the company's behalf.
A NTO dated 30 July is deemed served on 1 Aug. which is day 1, therefore day 28 is 28th Aug.
As reps, IMO the contravention did not occur and procedural impropriety.
I think the PI is a shoo-in winner, see below:
Notice to owner
20.—(1) Where—.....
(a)....
(2) .....
(3) A notice to owner must, in addition to the matters required to be included in it under regulation 3(2) of the 2022 Appeals Regulations, state—
(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which the notice is posted,
(b)the name of the enforcement authority serving the notice,
(c)the amount of the penalty charge payable,
(d)the date on which the penalty charge notice was served,
(e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer who served the penalty charge notice under regulation 9 believed that a penalty charge was payable with respect to the vehicle,
(f)that the penalty charge, [...] must be paid within “the payment period” as defined by regulation 3(2)(a) of the 2022 Appeals Regulations,
Which is:
3.—(1)
(2) An enforcement notice must include the following information—
(a)that—
(i)
(ii)...the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the notice is served (“the payment period”).....;
The NTO states that the penalty must be paid no later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this Notice to Owner.
In short, they've c****d-up!
They've used the payment period which applies to moving traffic contraventions!
As regards the contravention, I would argue that this did not occur.
These restrictiond operate at right-angles to road markings.
GSV seems to show that there aren't any loading blips either to the immediate rear of the van or to its nearside(the restriction stops ahead of the vehicle and terminates at a slab of concrete, indicated by termination markings i.e. it doesn't run 'under the concrete'). If you can imagine the area as a square with four quadrants, the van is in the lower left, the bins and hardstanding in the lower right(no markings), the upper left is vacant road and the upper right is where the DYL and loading restriction end. Immediately to the left of the lower left quadrant is where DYL and no loading end.
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Thanks for your response.
When making appeals, we (I) do so as the company as we are the RK. Should I be doing that? Sorry for my naivety.
I have attached the response, and the NTO.
Many thanks
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Our appeal was rejected, and I have been waiting for the Notice to Owner so that I can appeal again.
The company I work for is the registered keeper. I am representing the driver
I want to try my best to help the driver.
I have until the 29th August to make the formal response,
Before I make a formal representation, does anyone have any advice?
Yes, STOP! I see a procedural mess on the horizon.
You are not the RK and only they may make formal reps. You have no standing in this matter, neither does the driver. Even if the 'company' have given written authority for the driver or you (by name in either case) to submit reps, these would be in the company's name.
When you posted earlier this month your 'appeal was rejected, and I have been waiting for the Notice to Owner so that I can appeal again.'
You posted last on 7 August at which time you made no mention of the RK having received the NTO. It therefore seems reasonable to assume that the earliest this could have been served was 8 Aug which would give a 28-day period ending on 4 Sept, not 29 Aug.
Post the NTO pl leaving in everything except the RK's details;
Pl explain your role vis-a-vis the RK e.g. do you or the driver have written authority etc.
Post Havering's response to the informal reps;
This case is retrievable IMO.
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Hi Guys,
I unfortunately did not keep a copy of my original appeal - do you think I could get one from Havering?
I have until the 29th August to make the formal response, but I am having trouble.
I think from the picture provided above that was taken from Google Maps, that the van was not parked near any kerb markings and the marks that can be seen are worn, and it was not near the 'no loading' sign (the position of the van can be seen in the evidence photos). I also mentioned earlier that we had a ticket last year for parking in the same place that was revoked upon appeal, with the reason that we gave as 'if no loading then why are the bins there'. I can see from a reply above that the restrictions are not related to bins/refuse, so I am not sure where to go with this to be successful. The appeal response from last year did not mention anything about the clause relating to refuse, so I am thinking that I could argue that our driver assumed it was okay, as he was not told otherwise - but that would be an ignorance claim. I want to try my best to help the driver. I feel it is really unfair.
Thanks :-)
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Is this the sum total of their evidential photos and are you the registered keeper?
The company I work for is the registered keeper. I am representing the driver
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I posted the relevant pics. There was a duplicate of the sign and I think one of front of van.
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Does this Google Street View show (https://maps.app.goo.gl/iGaPUTkn1UQAkNgW8) the correct location?
Yes, the street view is the correct location
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Does this Google Street View show (https://maps.app.goo.gl/iGaPUTkn1UQAkNgW8) the correct location?
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Is this the sum total of their evidential photos and are you the registered keeper?
There are 5 pics in total, but I can only upload 4.
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If it's no loading at any time, how do the bins get emptied?
I'm not sure if this is the correct part of their parking reg's but if not, I'm sure they will have it covered elsewhere:
(https://imgur.com/a/m8jWz3g)
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Is this the sum total of their evidential photos and are you the registered keeper?
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If it's no loading at any time, how do the bins get emptied?
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Need to see your challenge and their rejection.
As it's Havering I assume there is no reoffer of discount.
(https://i.ibb.co/jvcwxVQv/Screenshot-2025-08-06-at-16-56-49.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/tSkqpDG/Screenshot-2025-08-06-at-16-57-40.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/rRvjjkjr/Screenshot-2025-08-06-at-16-57-15.png)
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Hi,
Thanks for the response. I have attached the pic of the PCN.
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I see a picture of a van beside a big bin. However there's no sign of the PCN.
Please post up the PCN. Since this is a served on site PCN then please post up all of it unredacted.
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Hi guys,
Our driver received a PCN for parking in front of bins to deliver to a restaurant. Kerb markings are not clear/ are worn, and the signage is not close to the vehicle. Also, the vehicle is parked near bins. Our appeal was rejected, and I have been waiting for the Notice to Owner so that I can appeal again.
We received a PCN in March of last year for parking in the same place, but we appealed on the grounds of unclear kerb markings and argued that having the wheelie bins implied loading was acceptable. Our appeal was accepted, and they said that after considering our challenge and comments they had decided to cancel the penalty on that occasion.
Before I make a formal representation, does anyone have any advice?
I have attached an evidence pic. Our driver took his own pics too that I can upload when I have them.
Thanks for reading :)