Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: LondonTraveller84 on July 30, 2025, 11:46:16 pm

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: Kharas1 on December 01, 2025, 09:13:01 pm
Stick with it as regards fighting this one, the advice on here is spot on and if followed will be successful in this case. It’s important to hold your nerve, it can seem scary and it certainly isn’t a quick process but it will be successful in the end.

We all have to fight back against the parking scum and their pet debt collectors and legal wannabes- you’re in the right place to do so.

Put them through all the hoops until they finally give up and with the help of this forum, look for and exploit any opportunity to complain, maybe even seek compensation for any illegal actions, the support will be there if you have the will to see it through.

I’ve helped a couple of people using advice on here and have a couple ongoing currently, steel yourself and join the fight back.

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on December 01, 2025, 05:47:14 pm
You were warned that the IAS is a corrupt arm of the same company that owns the IPC.

Yes, the supposed assessors response is riddled with errors you can bank for complaints and any later pre-action/court stage. Key faults:

1. Burden of proof inverted on “relevant land”
   They say you had to prove the site is under statutory control. Wrong way round. The operator is asserting PoFA keeper liability; therefore the operator must prove the land is “relevant” (not excluded). The adjudicator accepted bare assertions (“not under statutory control/no TRO”) with zero primary evidence (title, delegation, byelaws/policy position). That’s a material error of law/principle.

2. Keeper liability accepted without strict PoFA proof
   They don’t cite or analyse the NtK line-by-line against Schedule 4 para 9. No findings on: period of parking (vs entry/exit), creditor identity, mandatory invitation/warning wording, service within the relevant period with proof of posting (not generation). They simply declare compliance. That’s inadequate reasoning and contrary to the “strict compliance” test.

3. 30-minute allowance mischaracterised as “consideration” to dodge the 10-minute grace
   They state the 10-minute grace only applies to a “permitted period of parking” and claim your 30 minutes is just “consideration”. That’s a factual/legal misstep. The site’s own regime describes a 30-minute drop-off/collection allowance—a permitted stay, not pre-contract browsing. If it’s permitted time, the PPSCoP 5.2 grace applies (unless the site is a true ≤30-minute “short stay area,” which this isn’t). Their entire dismissal hinges on that relabelling.

4. “Short stay area” carve-out never established
   They rely on “no grace because not a permitted period,” but don’t find (with evidence) that this location is a Note-2 short-stay site (global max ≤30 minutes). The operator’s own model allows much longer Sippi/e-permit stays. Without a finding that this is universally capped at ≤30 minutes, the carve-out can’t apply.

5. Landowner authority waved through on assertions
   They make a conclusory finding that the operator has authority, while the operator refused to exhibit the agreement (or PPSCoP s14 minimums). Accepting “secret” or non-exhibited authority is procedurally weak and contrary to the Code’s requirement to evidence landowner authority (albeit redactions allowed for sensitivities).

6. Signage: no analysis of entrance prominence/onerous term
   They state signage is “sufficient” without addressing whether the onerous requirement to go inside to kiosks or use a beacon/app was clearly and prominently communicated at the point of entry (and whether the charge was prominent). “Sufficient” is conclusory; it doesn’t grapple with the Beavis prominence test for unusual/onerous terms.

7. ANPR ≠ parking period; no continuity finding
   They equate perimeter timestamps to a proved contravention, ignoring that ANPR does not record a period of parking (PoFA language) and that the alleged 37 minutes is within 30-plus-grace if the 30 minutes is a concession (as above). The decision sidesteps that logic error by re-labelling the concession.

8. Debt-recovery escalation during ADR ignored
   You evidenced a DRA letter dated 29/09 while IAS was live. The decision takes no account of prejudicial escalation during ADR—useful for IPC complaint / later conduct arguments (unreasonable behaviour).

The decision. It’s not binding on you. In the meantime,e ignore all useless debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to do anything except to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying out of ignorance and fear.

If they later send a Letter of Claim (LoC), we will deal with that. Still waiting for a response to the FoI and the councils view on the status of the land.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on December 01, 2025, 05:17:13 pm
Okay so heres the IAS final decision - Which I am sure you expected no difference.


"The Appellant should understand that the Adjudicator is not in a position to give legal advice to either of the parties but they are entitled to seek their own independent legal advice. The Adjudicator's role is to consider whether or not the parking charge has a basis in law and was properly issued in the circumstances of each individual case. In all Appeals the Adjudicator is bound by the relevant law applicable at the time and is only able to consider legal challenges and not factual mistakes nor extenuating or mitigating circumstances. Throughout this appeal the Operator has had the opportunity consider all points raised and could have conceded the appeal at any stage. The Adjudicator who deals with this Appeal is legally qualified and each case is dealt with according to their understanding of the law as it applies and the legal principles involved. A decision by an Adjudicator is not legally binding on an Appellant who is entitled to seek their own legal advice if they so wish.

I am satisfied that the Appellant was parked in an area where the Operator has authority to issue Parking Charge Notices and to take the necessary steps to enforce them. The Appellant has provided no documentary evidence in support of her claim that the school is subject to statutory control and therefore does not fall within the definition of relevant land within PoFA. The onus is on the Appellant who is making this argument to do so. Therefore, I am not satisfied that the Appellant has established that this site is not relevant land.

Images have been provided to me by the Operator which shows the signage displayed on this site. After viewing those images I am satisfied that the signage is sufficient to have brought to the attention of the Appellant the terms and conditions that apply to parking on this site.

The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that either vehicles must be registered with a valid e-permit or have a valid exemption which is obtained by drivers entering their full, correct VRN into the kiosks located in reception or being registered via Sippi. In the photographs provided to me I can see that the Appellant remained on the site for 37 minutes and in the data provided I can see that the Appellant's VRN was not registered for a valid e-permit or exemption, which the Appellant does not dispute. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure that they conform with the terms and conditions of the Operator's signage displayed at this site. Mitigating/extenuating circumstances cannot be taken into account. The Appellant has misunderstood the application of the 10 minute grace period. This only applies to a permitted period of parking, which this was not. It cannot simply be added to the 30 minute consideration period that the Operator affords drivers on this site, in the way that the Appellant has done. The signage clearly sets out the terms and conditions that apply on this site and the Appellant has provided no adequate justification for remaining for 37 minutes without complying with those terms and conditions. As such, on the basis of the evidence provided I am satisfied that the Appellant was parked in breach of the displayed terms and conditions and that the PCN was correctly issued on this occasion.

I have considered all the issues raised by both parties in this Appeal and I am satisfied that the Operator has established that the Parking Charge Notice was properly issued in accordance with the law and therefore this Appeal is dismissed."


Any point in assessing their response to see if any points are incorrect and flawed?

Also what happens now, do i await the parking company to contact me again and I ignore?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on October 12, 2025, 03:51:16 pm
If the IAS appeal is unsuccessful, so what? The IAS is nothing but a kangaroo court. Their decision is not binding on you.

You continue to ignore all debt recovery letters and wait and see if they ever issue a Letter of Claim (LoC). If they do, you come back here and we will advise further.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: InterCity125 on October 12, 2025, 10:53:19 am
Just to be clear - The debt company can be totally ignored. Do nothing. Do not answer calls from them. Do not write letters to them. Do not even go to their website.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on October 11, 2025, 06:59:51 pm
I assume I'll call this debt recovery on Monday and let them know we are still in the appeal stage, so not sure why this was sent out?

You DO NOT make any contact whatsoever with a useless debt recovery company, EVER!!!! The debt collector is not a party to any contract allegedly breached by the driver. They are powerless and their only function is to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying up out of ignorance and fear.

Great to hear from you :D - There will be two things going on at the same time, the IAS appeal and the debt company following up with letters and raising their 'invoice' unware there is a appeal ongoing?

If the IAS come back stating they go against my appeal, what do I do next? I assume at this stage the debt recovery letters were supposed to arrive?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on October 11, 2025, 06:07:06 pm
I assume I'll call this debt recovery on Monday and let them know we are still in the appeal stage, so not sure why this was sent out?

You DO NOT make any contact whatsoever with a useless debt recovery company, EVER!!!! The debt collector is not a party to any contract allegedly breached by the driver. They are powerless and their only function is to try and intimidate the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree into paying up out of ignorance and fear.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on October 11, 2025, 05:23:58 pm
All,

Thank you for your detailed insight into the IAS and explanation, does look like a shambles and is a shame that no one can do anything and that they have backing from a partner law firm which basically make it even harder for your average joe who decides to appeal :( and I shall not refer to it as a fine again (promise)

1. I received the following on 7th October, I assume the parking agency have sent this onto the IAS now.

'We can confirm that we have received notification of your appeal lodged with the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). As a result, we are unable to address the points raised in your recent contact.

Please note that you have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. Any further correspondence regarding your appeal will come directly from the IAS upon completion of their review. '


2. I received the following a Debt recovery letter! dated 29th September, but received it in the post a day or two ago on the 7th/8th October. This has been sent out while I am still in the appeal process ie my reply to the IAS below was sent on 3rd October - I thought this stage wouldn't be till well after the IAS has made their judgement?

- It also says that 'This is your 4th October', not sure what this implied?
- That I have until the 13th October to pay?

https://ibb.co/HL53fkhS
https://ibb.co/wND9VPsW

I assume I'll call this debt recovery on Monday and let them know we are still in the appeal stage, so not sure why this was sent out? Also I'll have to wait for teh IAS to reply with their judgment.

@b789 just seen your signature and that you're away for the bulk of this month *I've gone into panic mode* needed your guidance as I can see them responding and letters like the above appearing :(. Appreciate you have limited access but hopefully you'll be able to review alongside others on this forum.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on October 04, 2025, 12:54:47 pm
If the IAS reject the appeal, so what? You have been told that this is a kangaroo court.

The Independent Appeals Service (IAS) is not independent in any meaningful sense. “IAS” and the “International Parking Community” (IPC) are trading names of the same company, United Trade and Industry Limited (UNITI). In its own privacy notice the IPC states that it also “uses” the trading names “The Independent Appeals Service (IAS)” and “The Independent Parking Committee (IPC)”. In other words, the trade association that sets the rules (IPC) and the appeal body that judges compliance (IAS) sit inside a single corporate vehicle. That is a textbook structural conflict of interest.

The venture was created and fronted by the same small circle. Companies House records show that UNITI was previously called “Independent Parking Committee Ltd”; its officers have included William Kenneth Hurley (current director/secretary) and John Llewellyn Gladstone Davies (director until 28 May 2017). The person with significant control today is Will Hurley Ltd, with ≥75% of shares/votes and the right to appoint/remove directors. This concentration of control over both the trade body and the appeals arm undermines any claim of independence.

Crucially, there is a direct, documented link to Gladstones Solicitors—the bulk-litigation firm widely used by private parking operators. Companies House confirms that John L G Davies is a current director of Gladstones Solicitors Limited and that William K Hurley served as a director there from 23 May 2011 until 28 May 2017. This is the same pair who founded and led the IPC/IAS ecosystem. The IPC itself promotes Gladstones as a partner and headline conference sponsor, describing them as a firm specialising in enforcement and litigation of unpaid private parking charges for both IPC and BPA operators. The practical effect is an ecosystem in which the trade body (IPC) and its appeals badge (IAS) are housed in UNITI, and—when an IAS appeal fails—operators instruct a closely associated law firm (Gladstones) to issue or threaten county court claims. Whatever the formal Chinese walls, the optics are “judge, rule-maker, and prosecutor” rolled together.

Process features amplify the concern: IAS assessors are anonymous; decisions are brief; there is no open body of precedent; motorists have no appeal from a rejection, while operators retain the option to litigate even after a motorist “win”. None of that resembles a balanced, open tribunal. Combined with the ownership and partner links above, it is bleedin’ obvious this is not a fair, arm’s-length arrangement.

Finally, from a consumer-protection lens, the set-up raises clear red flags. The same corporate group brands the rule-setter (IPC) and the adjudicator (IAS), while a partner law firm that has been led by the same principals handles bulk enforcement for the operators. That structure invites scrutiny under modern UK consumer and competition principles (now consolidated in the DMCC regime) as to whether independence claims and fairness representations are potentially misleading. To be clear, the point here is structural: it is the documented cross-ownership, officer history, and commercial partnering that create the conflict.

Yes, £20 might have been a good deal given the time you will now need to spend on this, but if you don’t believe you should pay a penny then it’s worth sticking with on principle.

What time to spend on this? We do the bulk of there work and all you have to do is follow the advice. The vast majority of the advice is template stuff.

I'm all for principal, hence why I'm going the long haul on this, as I had started doing with council PCN's and learnt a lot, although this is the first with private PCNs, hence a lot of nervousness as the concepts/rules/regs are above my head - just hope that get through this with £0 payment and not something where I end up having to pay more then the original fine.

I note you are still referring to this as a "fine". I will give you £50 for every occurrence of that word you can evidence in any of the correspondence you've received over this to date. By calling it a "fine", you are indicating to these skank companies that you are low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and can likely be intimidated into paying up out of ignorance or fear.

Why would you want to pay a speculative invoice for £20 from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach of contract by the driver? Do you simply pay any old "invoice" just because it offers a discount, even if you don't owe anything in the first place? Of course you don't.

You are the victim an attempted scam to fleece you of anything they can get from you. These private parking firms issue over 40,000 PCNs every single day. Think about how many recipients simply think of them as a "fine" and simply pay up at the mugs discount rate. Most are never challenged and the vast majority that end up being challenged int he small claims court end up as CCJs in default because the recipient has no idea how to deal with this.

Here, we deal with this day in and day out. We are well versed in the tactics used and have a good armoury to challenge them. There are extremely few that are not won and of the those very few, most end up paying far less than the amount being claimed. These firms never really want it to go all the way to a hearing in front of a judge because they know they are more likely to get a spanking. Even when they win, it's usually a pyrrhic victory as it has almost certainly cost them much miore than they can hope to recover.

But you are dealing with a very greedy cabal of incestuous firms whose snouts are well embedding in the trough that is this industry.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on October 04, 2025, 11:54:07 am
Yes, £20 might have been a good deal given the time you will now need to spend on this, but if you don’t believe you should pay a penny then it’s worth sticking with on principle.
I'm all for principal, hence why I'm going the long haul on this, as I had started doing with council PCN's and learnt a lot, although this is the first with private PCNs, hence a lot of nervousness as the concepts/rules/regs are above my head - just hope that get through this with £0 payment and not something where I end up having to pay more then the original fine.

The advise on what to put in appeals received so far from this forum has been huge, I can tell the likes of b789, has spent time to knock up the response and that to very quickly, as opposed to a copy and paste, which means a lot.

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: jfollows on October 04, 2025, 11:38:36 am
IAS costs them £23 each time, I believe.

It’s completely normal that parking companies, and then the IAS in particular, completely ignore totally valid appeal points. It’s a numbers game. Significant numbers of people then pay up.  Generally people who don’t and play the game with support from people here pay nothing.

Yes, £20 might have been a good deal given the time you will now need to spend on this, but if you don’t believe you should pay a penny then it’s worth sticking with on principle.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on October 04, 2025, 11:23:33 am
IAS favour less than 1 in 20 appeals.

If your argument is strong then IAS will simply skip over that argument in their response.

Your argument is strong so don't expect it to be correctly addressed - meaning, don't expect IAS to ask the parking company to provide strict proof that the area under control is not under statutory control.

It is better that you start to get these facts firmly placed in your mind at this stage rather than hanging out for a 1 in 20 decision from a non-independent appeals company who have no interest in your true legal position.

Wow! that's my optimisim and hope changed instantly lol :( A shame, meaning I'll be in this for the long run.. I know you'll hate this, but I think that maybe I should have taken them up on the £20 offer to close the case, and it wouldn't have been me payign £60 or £100 or more. Although I'm baffled as to why they offered such a low reduction, to avoid going down the IAS route, do they get hit with some fees if it goes via IAS?

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: InterCity125 on October 04, 2025, 09:46:43 am
IAS favour less than 1 in 20 appeals.

In particular, IAS hate appeals based around non PoFA compliant NtK's.

If there's one thing they hate more, it's appeals based on the 'not relevant land' argument.

We've all seen appeals to IAS rejected where the alleged contravention has happened smack bang in the middle of an airport (ie clearly not relevant land.)

Some parking companies (who deal with airport parking etc) have deliberately moved from POPLA to IAS as POPLA started to correctly apply the law in said situations.

If your argument is strong then IAS will simply skip over that argument in their response.

Your argument is strong so don't expect it to be correctly addressed - meaning, don't expect IAS to ask the parking company to provide strict proof that the area under control is not under statutory control.

IAS are in fact part of the mechanism which is used to place members of the public under pressure to pay.

It is better that you start to get these facts firmly placed in your mind at this stage rather than hanging out for a 1 in 20 decision from a non-independent appeals company who have no interest in your true legal position.

They just want the money.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on October 03, 2025, 08:55:49 pm
Just send the appeal as advised.

Appeal sent - it wouldnt let me copy and paste, literally had to retype it all word for word.

1. Aside from me mentioning that there is a 30 minute free wait time as advised to us by the school, was there anywhere else that you were able to see this? as their PCN, prima facie evidence and their signage has no mention of this, yet we've stated or used this in our appeal?

2. I came across the following under 5.2 of the link below, which states that even short-stays have the 10-minute grace period applied.

We have concluded that the Code should require a grace period of at least 10 minutes, in addition to the parking and consideration periods, for all private parking before a parking charge can be issued. This was generally considered to be a reasonable period and aligns with the grace period for local authority parking. It is required for all private parking, including short stay areas, as drivers are equally as likely to experience problems that lead to them overstaying in those circumstances.


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-parking-code-of-practice/private-parking-code-of-practice-explanatory-document-how-was-it-developed-and-what-will-it-change


Do not expect anything to do with rational thought.

Quite scary if the IAS does rejects this appeal, with the reasoning and counter arguments provided, imagine one that doesn't have the assistance and advice like that provided by FTLA and yourself, as many including my self would have replied with basic response using rational thought, what chance would we have, 0!
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on October 01, 2025, 08:10:15 pm
You are dealing with an unregulated private firm of ex-clamper thugs. Do not expect anything to do with rational thought.

Just send the appeal as advised.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on October 01, 2025, 04:30:22 pm
Hey!

Wow! that response looks epic and should make the other party cry and give up,  I forsee them ignoring any valid reason given (based on my many interactions with councils, I assume these guys would be the same if not worse)

1. I went to the school and took a photo of the signage, see attached.

https://ibb.co/dsb2Qbpz
https://ibb.co/SwQN26Db

2. I asked the headteacher about ownership of the land/carpark, he wasn't sure but said that the whole transition to the car park being monitored had to go through the redbridge council. The schools job is to ensure the upkeep of the car park as well as use by parents but it is shared by the Fenford clubs next door in the same block.

3. I installed SIPPI to see what it says for that location, but I can't seem to find it each time I try and search, odd - officialy if you are to stay more than 30 minutes (a time we only known by asking the school) you have to register at the Kiosk located in the school office. I see no mention of the timing on the display, other than what they've stated in their IAS reply.

Not sure if the above three points aid or means we can add to the response you've written? Before i send it out

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on October 01, 2025, 02:09:40 pm
Respond to their prima facie evidence with the following which you can copy and paste verbatim:

Quote
Response to the operators prima facie evidence/case:

1) No keeper liability: this is not “relevant land” under PoFA – and in any event PoFA has not been strictly complied with:
Maintained school = public authority site. Cranbrook Primary is a maintained (community) school of the London Borough of Redbridge. The premises are under public authority control and occupation. Private parking firms don’t magic that into “private relevant land” by stapling on a services contract. PoFA Schedule 4 excludes land where parking is “subject to statutory control”. School sites sit within the Council’s statutory framework and governance; any parking arrangements/authorisations arise from (and are constrained by) public law duties, not private whim.

Your “no TRO, therefore relevant land” line is garbage. The absence of a TRO doesn’t prove relevance. “Statutory control” in PoFA isn’t limited to TROs or byelaws. Show contemporaneous documentary proof that, on 18/07/2025, this site wasn’t (a) owned/controlled by the local authority for the purposes of education; (b) managed by or on behalf of that authority; and (c) regulated under any statutory framework/policy that governs use of school premises (which it is). You’ve produced nothing—just assertions.

Burden of proof is yours. If you want to rely on keeper liability, you prove relevance with evidence, not bluster. That means:
• Land status/ownership (Land Registry or Council confirmation);
• The governing body/LA delegation showing who controls parking and under what statutory footing;
• A positive statement (with citations) that the parking of vehicles at this location is not subject to any statutory control/policy/instrument on the material date.

You’ve filed zero of the above. Keeper liability fails at the starting gate.

Even if (which is denied) this were relevant land, PoFA still isn’t met. You haven’t exhibited the NtK or walked the assessor through strict Schedule 4 compliance. Fail any of these and keeper liability is dead:
• 9(2)(a): A period of parking (ANPR entry/exit ≠ parking period).
• 9(2)(b)–(d): Circumstances/charge/when payable (exact statutory content).
• 9(2)(e)(i): The invitation to the keeper (correct wording).
• 9(2)(f): The warning of keeper liability after 28 days (correct wording).
• 9(2)(h): Creditor identity (who is the creditor?).
• 9(2)(i), 9(5): Service within the relevant period and proof of posting (PPSCoP 8.1.2(d) Note 2 = record of date of posting, not just “generated”).

You’ve dumped a narrative and hid the paperwork. That’s not compliance.

Your boilerplate about PoFA 9(2)(f) is meaningless without the actual notice. Put the full NtK in evidence and point to the precise lines that meet each statutory limb—or stop pretending you’ve established keeper liability.

Reality check for the IAS: an assertion that “this is relevant land” is not evidence. If the IAS is prepared to accept keeper liability on a maintained school site without hard proof of relevance and without line-by-line PoFA compliance, then you’re not applying PoFA—you’re just waving it around.

1) 30-minute site concession + mandatory 10-minute end-of-parking grace (PPSCoP 5.2) = still no breach
Your own numbers now say 37 minutes on site. This location runs a 30-minute drop-off/collection concession. Under PPSCoP 5.2, when a permitted period ends the motorist must be given a minimum 10-minute grace period to leave—unless this is a genuine “short stay area” where parking is never allowed for more than 30 minutes for anyone. It isn’t.

Not a short-stay zone, so Note 2 doesn’t apply. This site’s normal regime allows longer stays via Sippi/e-permit (selecting up to 12 hours for £0.00 has already been documented). A car park that routinely permits multi-hour stays is by definition not a Note-2 “short stay area”. So the 10-minute end-of-parking grace applies.

Concession = permitted time. The 30-minute drop-off/collection is an express permission the site advertises. It’s part of the terms. The grace sits on top of that permitted time. Maths even the IAS can follow: 30 + 10 = 40 minutes before any charge can lawfully be triggered.

Your figure buries your own case. You now claim 37 minutes total. That’s within the 40-minute allowance. End of story: no contravention on your own evidence.

If you want to wriggle out of your own concession, prove it. Produce dated, contemporaneous signage and policy for 18/07/2025 showing (a) the 30-minute concession didn’t apply on that date or (b) this site was operating as a true Note-2 short-stay area with a universal ≤30-minute max stay. If you can’t, you don’t get to pretend the concession vanishes when you fancy issuing a PCN.

Ambiguity = your problem. Any fuzziness in your signs or “policy” about when the concession applies is construed against you. You drafted it; you live with it.

Bottom line: 37 ≤ 40. Your own timing nukes the charge.

This PCN has been issued incorrectly and must be cancelled.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 30, 2025, 10:21:26 pm
So they had offered me a reduced charge of £20 dropped from £100, which I had not seen, as I did not check my emails in time. They have now officially responded with the below

"The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 30/09/2025 09:45:17.

The operator reported that...
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
ANPR/CCTV was used.
The Notice to Keeper was sent on 22/07/2025.
A response was received from the Notice to Keeper.
The ticket was issued on 18/07/2025.
The Notice to Keeper (ANPR) was sent in accordance with PoFA.
The charge is based in Contract.

The operator made the following comments...
The appellant has been captured by ANPR entering and leaving the car park.

The vehicle was at the car park for 37 minutes, evidence of this can be seen in the attached document '70009722'.

The appellant has parked within the car park and did not register their vehicle.

Signage clearly states "MOTORISITS MUST REGISTER WITH A VALID E-PERMIT OR HAVE A VALID EXEMPTION BY ENTERING THEIR FULL, CORRECT VEHICLE REGISTRATION INTO THE KIOSKS LOCATED WITHIN THE RECEPTION AREAS OR BE REGISTERED VIA SIPPI".

Please be advised, physical permits are not currently in use at this location. Our records indicate that vehicle registration GK16BKY was not registered on the E-Permit system, however other vehicles are registered on the E-Permit system on the date of contravention. This can be seen in the attached document '70009722'.

The signage is clear within the area and states the terms and conditions for parking. It is the driver's responsibility to ensure they register their vehicle. This is the only way we can determine which vehicles are authorised to be parked within the restricted area.

The Appellant accepts that they were the registered keeper of this car at the time of this incident but has not been prepared to identify the driver. The provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act schedule 4 enable the Parking Operator to recover against the keeper if they fail or refuse to name the driver.

Please be advised that, in accordance with the Single Code of Practice, the appellant was offered a reduced payment of £20 as a gesture of goodwill. However, as this offer has not been accepted, the full amount of £100 is now due.

We note your point that the primary school car park is managed by UKCPM (UK Car Park Management). We write to clarify our position, and confirm that despite UKCPM being the operator, the legal basis upon which liability is sought remains governed by the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“PoFA”), including its Schedule 4 — specifically paragraph 9(2)(f) — under which a registered keeper can be held liable if the driver cannot be identified.

Under Schedule 4 of PoFA, keeper liability only applies if the land is “relevant land.” The definition of “relevant land” excludes, among other things:

Highways maintainable at public expense;

Parking places provided or controlled by a traffic authority;

Any land on which parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.
GOV.UK

Legislation.gov.uk

We assert that Cranbrook Primary School car park, though managed by UKCPM, is not under statutory control (nor a public highway, traffic authority controlled parking place, or otherwise subject to byelaws or similar). Therefore, we consider it “relevant land” under PoFA. This allows us to lawfully issue a Notice to Keeper and seek liability under paragraph 9(2)(f) in absence of driver identification.

Management of a car park by a private operator (UKCPM) does not in itself change the nature of the land for the purposes of PoFA. What matters is whether statutory control or public authority control is present. Being a private operator contracted to manage the parking does not remove the land from being “private relevant land” if all criteria are otherwise satisfied.

For keeper liability to be valid, certain procedural requirements must be satisfied under PoFA (e.g., signage, Notice to Driver (if applicable), timely Notice to Keeper, etc.). We believe these have been met in your case. If you have evidence disputing any of them (for example, that signage was inadequate, or that the Notice to Keeper was not issued within the required timeframe), we invite you to provide that, and we will review.

By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice"


Ive tried to get my head around what they've said about the PoFA but am a bit brain fried from driving 8 hours.. But they see this as relevant land - Await to get your take on their response and the reply if any I should submit.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on September 26, 2025, 11:36:22 am
What are you talking about not having a "leg to stand on"? You are assuming that the IAS is anything but an incestuous firm of corrupt and mendacious scammers. If the IAS do not uphold your appeal, so what? They are a kangaroo court and their decisions are not binding on you and have absolutely no bearing on anything going forwards.

The very simple fact is that without the drivers identity, they don't have a "leg to stand on" if this were to ever reach a hearing in the small claims court. The simple fact is that PoFA does not apply. The driver is not identified. Liability for the charge cannot be transferred to the Keeper. End of!
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 26, 2025, 12:03:12 am
Actually, I may have one chance to still respond, although I will have to wait for the operator to reply first, to which I can provide a response, below extract from the IAS email received following the submission

Your appeal has been sent to the parking operator so that they can provide their account.

The Parking Operator is now provided 5 working days to upload sufficient evidence to show that you are liable for the charge.

Once they have submitted their evidence you will be able to log in and see it. You will then have 5 working days to respond in one of TWO ways:

1) SUBMIT YOUR APPEAL - You can respond to the evidence by making any representations that you consider to be relevant as to the lawfulness of the charge any by uploading any photographs or other evidence that you may have. Once you submit your response it will go back to the operator who may wish to respond or send the appeal straight to arbitration. In the case of the operator responding, you will receive another chance to respond.

- OR -

2) REFER THE CASE STRAIGHT TO ARBITRATION - If you consider that the information provided is not capable of showing that you are, on the face of it, responsible for the parking charge, then you may choose this option. The Adjudicator will assess the evidence provided by the operator and appellant. You will not have the opportunity of making representations and the Adjudicator will decide, on the balance of probabilities, whether you are liable for the parking charge.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 25, 2025, 11:53:28 pm
Thank you for your details reply and assistance, unfortunately I replied yesterday as I was worried yesterday was the last day to appeal, I used the same reason you provided at the start, as I did in the first appeal.

The additional reasons you have mentioned in the previous post give much more of a defence, although confident IAS will just discard and ignore still. Unfortunately I am unable to add or update according to the IAS appeal process, that once submitted nothing can be added to it after, which is a shame :(

Also a shame the council have not provided the information requested as it would have helped.. If the land is council owned/controlled, however a delegation was/is provided to to the governing body to give permission to the parking operator, then I guess I have no leg to stand on?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on September 25, 2025, 01:34:25 pm
Also I know it stated taht most of these will eventually have some form of debt letter then fail to go through to County Court, however I've just seen a post that's before mine for 'Gladstones' where OP states they've received a County Court Claim from Euro Parking Services Limited :O and it totals £257.50 - So worst case scneario I could end up having to may a similar amount if I am unable to fight the final stage at county court?

Just because a claim is issued does not mean that it will ever get as far as a hearing. These companies all rely on you being low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree who can be intimidated into paying up out of ignorance and fear. Unless you understand their modus operandi and your lawful rights like we do, then good luck to you.

As long as you don’t identify the driver they can’t use PoFA 2012 as they continue to claim.

If at any point I am asked if I was the drive, would that mean one has to say no or decline to comment, ie nor confirm nor deny?

There is no legal obligation on the Keeper to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking firm. There is no need to lie either. All you do is refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that". Understood?

If the operator is unable to rely on PoFA to transfer liability from the unknown (to them) driver to the known Keeper, the burden of proof is on them, not you. How do you imagine that can prove you were the driver if you decline to assist them by identifying the driver for them?

I have just submitted the following FoI request to foi@redbridge.gov.uk

Did you ever get anything back from the FOI request for this?

Yes, and it was a non answer which I have complained about and asked for a review:

(https://i.imgur.com/8QGNRuh.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mb797av.jpeg)

And my response, to which they have not yet replied:

Quote
Subject: Request for Internal Review – FOI Ref: 29095861

Dear FOI Team,

I am writing to request an internal review of your response to my Freedom of Information request regarding the contracting of UK Car Park Management (UKCPM) at Cranbrook Primary School.

Your reply stated that the information I requested is not held by the London Borough of Redbridge and advised me to contact the private parking firm directly. I believe this response is inadequate for the following reasons:

1. Failure to confirm land ownership and delegation
Even if the Council does not hold the UKCPM contract itself, you are still able – and obliged – to confirm whether the land in question is Council-owned or controlled, and if so, whether any delegation has been granted to the school governing body to enter into such arrangements. This is relevant context squarely within the scope of my request.

2. Duty to advise and assist (s16 FOIA)
The Section 45 Code of Practice requires public authorities to advise and assist applicants. Directing me to contact a private company that is not subject to FOIA does not satisfy this duty. You should instead have identified or signposted the correct public body likely to hold the requested information – in this case, the governing body of Cranbrook Primary School – or considered whether a transfer under FOIA was appropriate.

3. Incomplete handling of the request
My request covered not just the specific contract with UKCPM but also any agreements, delegations, or authorisations by the Council concerning parking enforcement at this location. These are matters the Council is in a position to confirm.

I therefore request that the internal review addresses:

• Whether the land at Cranbrook Primary School, including the car park, is owned or controlled by the Council.

• Whether the Council has delegated authority to the school governing body to enter into parking enforcement arrangements.

• Whether the Council holds any records, correspondence, or authorisations relating to the introduction of private parking enforcement at this site.

• Proper signposting or transfer to the public body that does hold the requested contract (likely the school/governing body).

Please ensure this review is conducted in line with the FOIA Code of Practice and completed within 20 working days.

Yours sincerely,

B789

For now, you can submit the following as your IAS appeal (for what it's worth):

Quote
This appeal addresses the operator’s rejection and explains why this PCN cannot lawfully be enforced.

1. Keeper liability cannot apply (land is not “relevant land”)
Under PoFA Sch 4 para 3(1)(b), a parking place provided or controlled by a traffic authority is excluded from “relevant land.” Para 3(2) defines a traffic authority to include a London borough council. Cranbrook Primary School is a community school on land owned and controlled by the London Borough of Redbridge. Control therefore rests with a traffic authority, excluding the site from relevant land. In the alternative, para 3(1)(c) excludes land where parking is subject to statutory control; this site is governed under the Education Acts and controlled by a London borough exercising statutory powers. PoFA keeper liability cannot arise on this land.

2. Standing not evidenced (PPSCoP §14)
The operator refuses to disclose the landowner agreement yet relies on it to found authority. PPSCoP §14.1(a)–(j) requires written confirmation from the landowner covering identity, boundary plan, applicable byelaws, permission and duration, applied terms, method of issuing charges, responsibility for consents, Code-compliance obligations, documentation to be supplied on request, and approach to appeals. These are core standing documents. Redactions for pricing are acceptable, but the authority clauses, boundaries, byelaw status, scope/duration, operative terms, and method of charge must be evidenced. Absent this, standing is not proven.

3. Contravention not proven: ANPR and “37 minutes”
ANPR records site entry/exit, not a period of parking. The operator must evidence a period of parking and also demonstrate compliance with consideration and grace periods required by the PPSCoP. Strict proof is required of ANPR reliability, maintenance, calibration, and clock synchronisation, and (if relevant) patrol notes. None has been produced. Assertions are not evidence.

4. “No permit found” requires strict proof
If relying on a permit system, strict proof is required of the audit trail: the query performed, timestamps, system clock synchronisation with ANPR, and the data extract showing no valid permission at the material time. A generic “no permit found” statement is insufficient.

5. NtK service and PoFA compliance (only if PoFA is claimed)
If the operator seeks to rely on PoFA notwithstanding point 1, strict proof is required of a fully compliant NtK (including para 9(2)(a), 9(2)(e), 9(2)(f)) and proof of posting/service within the relevant period (PPSCoP 8.1.2(d) Note 2 requires a record of the date of posting, not merely the date of generation or consolidator handover). No such proof has been provided.

6. Annex F “Appeals Charter” is irrelevant to liability
Whether the case falls within Annex F does not determine enforceability. Liability depends on (i) applicability of PoFA, (ii) operator standing, and (iii) proof of contravention with compliant evidence. None is satisfied here.

Conclusion
Because the site is not relevant land, PoFA keeper liability cannot arise. In any event, the operator has not proven standing under PPSCoP §14, has not proven a period of parking or ANPR reliability, has not strictly proven the “no permit” allegation, and has not proven NtK service/compliance if they seek to rely on PoFA. The PCN should be cancelled.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 24, 2025, 11:15:06 pm
Also I know it stated taht most of these will eventually have some form of debt letter then fail to go through to County Court, however I've just seen a post that's before mine for 'Gladstones' where OP states they've received a County Court Claim from Euro Parking Services Limited :O and it totals £257.50 - So worst case scneario I could end up having to may a similar amount if I am unable to fight the final stage at county court?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 24, 2025, 11:07:34 pm
As long as you don’t identify the driver they can’t use PoFA 2012 as they continue to claim.

If at any point I am asked if I was the drive, would that mean one has to say no or decline to comment, ie nor confirm nor deny?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 24, 2025, 11:04:36 pm
I am about to submit the exacty same resposne to the IAS appeal,

1. I will be copying and pasting the same appeal as before, I assume that is all I need to do? As I will not be able to add or amend anything to the appeal after submitted.

2. The rejection letter states I have 28 days to appeal from notice of rejection (28th Aug) to the IAS or make payment, thus making today the last day if I include the date of rejection as Day 1, however on the IAS page it is saying I have until 29th Sept to complete my appeal application (Basicailly 31 days?) - I assume best to appeal today and not delay to play it safe?

3. The IAS Appeal started by asking me to answer two statements which I've done as follows, hope these are correct:

i. Statement 1: You reported that the appellant was the registered keeper but is not prepared to state who was driving at the time the parking charge was issued.

ii. Statement 2: You reported that the appellant is being held liable for the parking charge.


Annex F is utterly irrelevant, have you read it?

A quick google AI response said "Annex F, "The Appeals Charter," was a component of the original (now withdrawn) government-proposed Private Parking Code of Practice, not the current industry-led Single Code of Practice" - Does this mean it doesn't count as its withdrawn? excuse my lack of understanding of this topic/charter.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on September 24, 2025, 10:51:59 pm
I have just submitted the following FoI request to foi@redbridge.gov.uk

Did you ever get anything back from the FOI request for this?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: jfollows on August 28, 2025, 06:58:44 pm
Annex F is utterly irrelevant, have you read it?

Either they are being stupid or, more likely, deliberately spout irrelevant rubbish in the hope that you’re convinced by it and pay up.

Note from Reply #3 that some kind of fabricated reason for a rejection of your appeal was expected. You’ve got to continue the process, as explained in this earlier reply. As long as you don’t identify the driver they can’t use PoFA 2012 as they continue to claim.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on August 28, 2025, 06:41:03 pm
Response received via email, copied below, I hav highlighted certain text in bold as per their reply.

CN REFERENCE NUMBER: 70009722

DATE OF PARKING EVENT: 18th July 2025
 
PAYMENT DUE DATE: 11th September 2025                           

TOTAL AMOUNT DUE: £100.00                                                                                                                                  

Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice.

At UK CPM we consider all appeals on a case-by-case basis. We take each appeal very seriously and thoroughly investigate any evidence that has been provided. We appreciate your circumstances and understand this is not a situation anyone would like to find themselves in; however, these parking conditions have been put in place to ensure fair usage for all motorists and support the needs of our client. After careful consideration, it is unfortunate that I am writing to you today to advise that on this occasion, your appeal has been unsuccessful.

The decision to uphold your parking charge notice has been made on the following basis.

Whilst we note the comments and reason for appeal, we can confirm that the vehicle remained on site for 37 minutes with no permit to authorise your stay. We must advise that this car park is run by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras which take a time and date stamped image of the vehicle on entry and exit, measuring the length of time the vehicle remained on site, this information is then cross-referenced with the data from the permit systems. Due to no permit being found, we can confirm that this PCN has been issued correctly.

Either due to the reason for issue and/or the insufficient evidence provided to support the details of your appeal, we have considered this PCN and found that it does not fall under the category of Annex F the Appeals Charter of the Single Code of Practice. Therefore, if no further evidence is provided, we will deem this to be our final decision.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and therefore you now have two options; either pay or appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) - you cannot do both.


Any thoughts, they mention it doesnt fall under Annex F?
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on August 10, 2025, 10:25:24 pm
Done! submitted appeal using the template now I wait for their reply.

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on August 05, 2025, 10:58:55 am
You owe me another £50 for each occurrence of the word "fine" that you can evidence in any correspondence you have received over this matter.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on August 05, 2025, 10:37:13 am
What 14 days? Do you mean the 'mugs discount'?

It's somethign I used to do and pay up, to avoid ending up with a bigger fine! However recently used this forum for appealing multiple Civil PCN's, having to give up the discount and go all the way with advice from vetrans here! I learnt a lot and would never pay a discount again, unless there is no chance of winning..

The private PCNs seems like a different kettle of fish and all new to me, you and others here are making it sound even more simple then Civil ones, although you'll receive dozens of debt letters and there will be no adjudication element lol - which would make any one shiver lol

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on August 05, 2025, 10:24:44 am
What 14 days? Do you mean the 'mugs discount'? If you are considering that, then we cannot help you. That "discount" is to persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree that they Arte getting a bargain when, in fact, they never ordered anything in the first place.

The PCN is simply a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract by the driver. Why would you pay an invoice simply because it offers a discount?

You owe me £50 for my advice. However, if you pay me within 14 days, I will only charge you £30. Bargain!
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on August 04, 2025, 11:51:47 pm
Hey all,

Sorry for the late reply, forgot to turn on notification on reply and just checked today.

I'm not sure of who owns what element as the block itself, has 3 different properties, School, Sports Club (Frenford) and Rocket Padel, the latter two have their own car parks. The car park in question is used by others at times also I beleive, with a shared enterance drive through to get to each. While the school is a council run school, not sure if the car park is or if its part or some form of a private ownership - If it is private and not council owned, then where does that leave us?

Am trying to get my head around the technical terms and also the legal elements here and some what daunting as it seems to be a different ball game to the parking PCNs i've had to deal with and some what more daunting - so based on the posts from all, it seems that the key is not to provide any info on the driver and ignore any letters that come for good. - In which case i can send the draft kindly provided by B789.

When would the last day be for me to respond within the 14 days - tomorrow? always unsure if we include the date of the notice or not as a day, or the 1st day is the day after.


Regards

Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on July 31, 2025, 03:50:52 pm
I have just submitted the following FoI request to foi@redbridge.gov.uk

Quote
Dear FOI Team,

Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, I request the following information regarding parking enforcement at Cranbrook Primary School, The Drive, Ilford, IG1 3PS:

Has the London Borough of Redbridge, or any delegated authority thereof, contracted UK Car Park Management (CPM) to operate parking enforcement services at the above site?

If so, please provide:

• The name of the contracting party or authority.
• The date the contract was initiated.
• The scope and duration of the contract.
• A copy of the contract or agreement (with any necessary redactions).

If CPM was contracted by the school directly, please confirm whether the school had delegated authority from the borough to enter into such an agreement concerning land use and enforcement.

This request concerns the legitimacy of private enforcement activity on land that appears to fall under local authority control. Please treat this as a matter of public interest and procedural accountability.

I look forward to your response within the statutory 20 working days.

Yours faithfully,

B789

This will establish who to make an official complaint to about the fact that CPM are acting unlawfully by issuing PCNs claiming Keeper liability under PoFA.

As CPM are clearly breaching the PPSCoP section 8.1.1(d) this also warrants a formal complaint to the DVLA, if only to establish a paper trail about their breach of the PPSCoP and therefore the KADOE contract.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: b789 on July 31, 2025, 03:42:27 pm
Cranbrook Primary School is a community school under the control of the London Borough of Redbridge. It is not an academy or independent school, and therefore its land is under statutory control.

Since Cranbrook Primary School is a local authority-maintained community school, its land is not “relevant land” for the purposes of PoFA. This means the operator cannot transfer liability to the keeper under PoFA Schedule 4.

As CPM is relying on PoFA to pursue the keeper (rather than the driver), their claim is legally flawed. You can challenge the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the basis that the land is not relevant under PoFA, and therefore keeper liability does not apply.

The Keeper must always refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that".

There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.

The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the known keeper.

I advise you send the following as your appeal from the Keeper:

Quote
Subject: Formal Challenge to Parking Charge 70009722 – Invalid Reliance on PoFA

To Whom It May Concern,

I am responding as the Registered Keeper (RK) to Parking Charge Notice 70009722, issued as a Notice to Keeper (NtK) in relation to an alleged contravention on 18 July 2025 at Cranbrook Primary School, The Drive, Ilford, IG1 3PS.

Your NtK explicitly invokes paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), asserting a right to recover the unpaid charge from the registered keeper. This reliance is legally flawed.

Cranbrook Primary School is a community school under the control of the London Borough of Redbridge. As such, the land on which the vehicle was parked is subject to statutory control and does not meet the definition of “relevant land” under Schedule 4 of PoFA. Keeper liability under PoFA applies ONLY to land that is privately owned and NOT subject to statutory control.

Therefore, your attempt to transfer liability to the keeper is invalid. You are required to cancel this charge immediately. Any continued pursuit of this notice will be considered an attempt to misrepresent legal rights and will be reported to the relevant authorities, including the DVLA and the ICO, for breach of data handling obligations.

I require written confirmation that this charge has been cancelled. No further correspondence will be entered into unless you provide compelling evidence that the land in question is relevant under PoFA—which, given the school's status, you cannot.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]

Just be aware that CPM and any other IPC member firm will reject any appeal and the secondary appeal service, the IAS, is also likely to do the same as they are nothing but a Kangaroo court. However, you have to go through the motions.

It will also involve some useless debt recovery letters. Debt collectors are powerless to actually do anything except to try and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay up out of ignorance and fear.

The most likely outcome of this will be an eventual county court claim which will never reach a hearing as it would be either struck out or discontinued. Unfortunately, the process is prolonged and will take anything from 9 months to over a year to conclude.

However, if you follow the advice you receive here, you will not be paying a penny to CPM and you are likely to learn a lot about your rights and how to defend them.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: H C Andersen on July 31, 2025, 01:24:07 pm
IMO, assuming the car was parked within the signed perimeter of the school, and therefore on school grounds, then IMO this is not 'relevant land'.

Cranbrook Primary would appear to be a 'community school' owned and maintained by the 'local authority':

https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/admission-arrangements-2024-25/

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-school


3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—

(a)....

(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;

control.

(2)In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—

.........;
“traffic authority” means each of the following—
(a)


(b)
;

(c)
;

(d)
..;

(e)
the council of a county, county borough, London borough or district
;

OP, don't go to the school, go to the council. Get written confirmation as to the legal status of Cranbrook Primary School and who owns the land and buildings.
Title: Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: Dave65 on July 31, 2025, 10:35:40 am
Is this a private school or council?
Title: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
Post by: LondonTraveller84 on July 30, 2025, 11:46:16 pm
Hi All,

First private PCN, may have to pay but thought I'd get your advice before I do.

The primary schools parking is now managed by ' ' and there is a free period (I believe 30 minutes) during school pickup and drops, if its any longer you have to go into the main office and register your VRN on the tablet. On the last day my wife ended up staying a 37minutes and forgot to put the VRN in and has now received the attached.

We are unable to call the school to ask if they can cancel as the schools are now closed.

Is there any valid and genuine way to appeal this or not?

Regards



[attachment deleted by admin]