Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: traz on July 29, 2025, 04:39:01 pm
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Representing myself, I don’t think I stand much of a chance, so I’m leaning towards just paying the penalty and moving on.
I really appreciate everyone who offered advice and support — thank you all.
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Would anyone be willing to represent me at London Tribunals?
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Yes, it's going to London Tribunal.
Would you say it's worth contesting?
Ah, OK. Good luck and hope you win.
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Yes, it's going to London Tribunal.
Would you say it's worth contesting?
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Sorry to be Devil's Advocate, but you could say that you did do a U-turn, immediately followed by a left turn.
Is this going to London Tribunals ?
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Thank you. I've managed to scan and upload all the pages to a google drive.
The link is https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BLhwPXUKQV55MgtlAK-Tx_kWzG6ehNY6/view?usp=sharing
Thanks
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Hi everyone
I’ve received Notices of Rejection from Fulham and Hammersmith. How can I upload the PDF?
Aee
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
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Hi everyone
I’ve received Notices of Rejection from Fulham and Hammersmith. How can I upload the PDF?
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https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg86653/#msg86653
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Is this good to send?
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I've drafted the following appeal. I've kept it simple and concise.
Dear Hammersmith and Fulham Council,
I am writing to formally challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued for an alleged U-turn.
A High Court judgment has made it clear that for a U-turn to occur, the vehicle must, after the manoeuvre, travel in the direction from whence it came.
In this case, my vehicle did not travel back in the direction from which it initially came. Therefore, no U-turn took place, and no contravention occurred.
On this basis, I respectfully request that the PCN be cancelled.
Thank you for your consideration.
Kind regards,
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Yes please and post up a draft first. Sorry, I am inundated.
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should i write up an appeal using the points already mentioned in this thread
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Basically, yes, they automatically reject all reps because they know most people then cough up. However you need to put in your reps the things you want the adjudicator to see which were rejected by the council.
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What should I mention in my representation. As far as I understand almost anything I say will get rejected and then it will be off to TEC to fight it out
Tribunal not TEC. I'll do a draft later.
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I think we're in danger of going off-piste here.
Both the High Court judgment and the Panel decision quoted in the reviewed case state clearly that in order for a 'u-turn' to be performed, whether in 3 goes or one, an essential limb is that after the manoeuvre 'it travels in the direction from whence it came'.
In this case the vehicle did not.
So IMO, it's not how a 'u-turn' was achieved, it's whether one occurred.
IMO, it did not, and neither did the contravention.
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What should I mention in my representation. As far as I understand almost anything I say will get rejected and then it will be off to TEC to fight it out
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No, I haven’t made formal representation yet.
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Yes. Have you made formal representations yet?
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Would anyone be willing to represent me for this? To be honest, I don’t think I stand much chance of winning on my own.
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Thanks to @Hippocrates for sharing the links — I’ve now read through all three cases and found them really helpful, though admittedly a bit dense!
In the first case, the claimant tried to argue that the “No U-turn” sign (diagram 614) didn’t apply because they performed a 3-point turn rather than a classic U-turn. The court ultimately rejected that argument, ruling that the sign prohibits any kind of manoeuvre that results in reversing direction, regardless of how it's done. In my case, however, I turned onto Wandsworth Bridge Road rather than going back on myself, so it might still be arguable that what I did wasn’t technically a U-turn in the prohibited sense.
The second case (with LemonTootski) seems to focus on a technical defect in the PCN, specifically missing mandatory information. After checking, it looks like the same error may apply to my PCN as well, so that might be worth raising.
The third case really struck a chord — it shows how difficult and drawn-out this whole process can be, even when logic seems to favour the motorist. It reflects what Hippocrates mentioned in the other post: that councils bank on most people just giving up and paying because the time and research involved isn't worth it. Sadly, that’s probably true.
To be completely honest, this isn’t my area of expertise. My gut feeling is that Fulham Council will reject any informal or formal challenge, which means I’ll have to take it to the London Tribunal if I want to fight it. I’m currently thinking of appealing on two main grounds:
The PCN is invalid due to missing mandatory information (as seen in LemonTootski’s case).
It wasn’t a U-turn, since I didn’t turn back in the opposite direction — I turned onto a different road.
Not sure how strong either point is, so any thoughts or suggestions would be really appreciated.
Also — if it does end up going to the London Tribunal, I’m honestly not sure how well I’ll hold up in there. It feels a bit daunting, especially not being experienced in this kind of thing.
Thanks again to everyone who contributes — it really helps those of us trying to make sense of this stuff.
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good lord, this is the exact same spot, (and almost same time) as a PCN i got:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/3ij-box-jct-new-kings-rd-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited/
It's a small world.
Except, I didn't do a u-turn!
Perhaps the council's low on its quota this month and needs to dish out more taxes :)
Anyway, good luck - I'll peruse this thread with great interest ...
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https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2014/560.html
This not a U turn AT ALL.
Technical argument:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/3ij-box-jct-new-kings-rd-entering-and-stopping-in-a-box-junction-when-prohibited/msg83241/#msg83241
Case review:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcnredbridge50u-performing-a-prohibited-turn-(no-u-turn)jct-of-high-rd-(ilford)-/msg49430/#msg49430
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Yeah, the no u turn sign isn't on google maps yet.
Have the 'Ahead Only' arrows disappeared - it's not clear from the video?
It's really hard to tell, but I believe the sign is still there.
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FGS. >:(
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The order for this is recent.
Road Traffic Acts
LONDON BOROUGH OF HAMMERSMITH AND FULHAM
ROAD TRAFFIC REGULATION ACT 1984
THE HAMMERSMITH AND FULHAM (PRESCRIBED ROUTES) (CONSOLIDATION) AMENDMENT (NO. 1) ORDER 2024
1. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham made the above-mentioned Orders under the powers granted by sections 6 and 124 of, and Part IV of Schedule 9 to, the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as amended.
2. The general effect of the Order, which will come into operation on 18th September 2024, will be to introduce a banned U-turn restriction in New King’s Road, between the north-eastern kerb-line of Harwood Road and the western kerb-line of Wandsworth Bridge Road.
3. A copy of the Orders, the Councils statement of reasons for making the Orders and documents giving more detailed particulars of the Orders, can be inspected, by requesting copies in writing until the end of a period of 6 weeks beginning with the date on which the Orders are made, or as the case may be, the Council decides not to make the Orders.
Parking Services, The Place Department, Town Hall Extension, King Street, Hammersmith, W6 9JU or via email to Traffic.Orders@lbhf.gov.uk.
4. If any person wishes to question the validity of the Order or any of the provisions on the grounds that it or they are not within the powers conferred by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, or that any requirement of that Act or of any instrument made under that Act has not been complied with, that person may, within 6 weeks from the date on which the Order is made, apply for the purpose to the High Court.
Dated this 11th day of September 2024
Masum Choudhury
Assistant Director of Transport
Highways, Parks and Waste
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Yeah, the no u turn sign isn't on google maps yet.
Have the 'Ahead Only' arrows disappeared - it's not clear from the video?
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Yeah, the no u turn sign isn't on google maps yet.
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Where is this on Google Maps
That would be here (July 2024 - the no U-turn sign appears to be later)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/CBGRbesAUZ6NfH1HA
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Where is this on Google Maps. It's not a complete U-turn. You can clearly see the sign though.
(https://i.ibb.co/twyrgmH0/Get-Video3-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
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I recently received a PCN from Hammersmith and Fulham Council for making a U-turn. To be honest, I’ve made that same turn on several occasions in the past and wasn’t aware that it had been prohibited. It looks like they’ve recently installed a camera at that location to enforce the restriction.
What would be the best approach to make a representation? Would an appeal outlining the lack of adequate signage be a good approach?
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
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