Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Championmonkey on July 23, 2025, 08:50:44 pm
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We can't advise you whether to wait for the NtO, or pay the discount because you've not told us enough. You need to post the actual PCN, all sides, only redacting name and address as it could contain fatal errors. A recent case this week picked up such an error that won at London Tribunals, so they are by no means perfect everywhere.
Looking at the council photographs you've posted shows your car parked outside No 48 with the suspension sign about 2 yards away, albeit partially obscured by the foliage. Here is the sign on GSV in September 2024 shoing the same obscuration of the sign : -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/hd5NNfsZdYm9KrHS9
A sign that close to where you parked tests credibility that you could not see it, but of course all the photos and the GSV 2024 view are in bright sunlight, not darkness, so if you are willing to risk the full PCN penalty at London Tribunals, you really need to emphasise your case with photos taken at night similar to what the CEO took in daylight to show the almost invisible nature of the suspension sign. Even then a win at London Tribunals is never guaranteed. So if you can post up such photos here, we can give you a better idea of the likelihood of a win.
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hmmm...Issue is you do have a duty to check the parking sign but...
Please note tree leaves covering some part of the sign is not considered a defect or invalidates the suspension.
(https://i.ibb.co/Q3vXYfpf/Screenshot-2025-07-24-at-00-25-07.png)
(https://i.ibb.co/kVr9xKKm/Screenshot-2025-07-24-at-00-24-51.png)
They will probably reoffer the discount if rejecting formal reps to an NTO.
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So I parked in a suspended bay on Arrow Rd, E3. It was midnight and if anyone knows Arrow Rd it's that the area has healthy, full trees that often are in pedestrians ways, and there's very limiting lighting only coming from the next street. The next morning I walked into a large group of people complaining they got issued a PCN when there were no signs- a tow truck was also waiting (thankfully I arrived in time to not get towed). I thought this was gonna be very simple bc the sign was covered by low hanging leaves, plus the dark street, it really was not visible but I just received an email saying they rejected my appeal. I was going to park on my own street but the few parking spaces left were suspended too, and this sign was directly under a lamppost so was Very visible.
PCN TT59293001
VRM FR13 OAY
I am including everything I wrote in my initial appeal, to the photos of the sign.
MY INITAL APPEAL:
Dear Whom this may concern, I am writing to appeal my PCN on the grounds of the parking suspension sign being hidden or obscured by overgrown leaves. I parked on Arrow Road at Midnight 27/06/2025. If you know Arrow road, it is very dimly light and trees shield the pavement from light. This makes it extremely dark. The only lamp post was on the other end of the street and it had no effect to where I parked and where parking was suspended. This is ONE of the reasons that I could not see the sign. The sign also has no visibility in the dark (is not fluorescent despite being neon yellow). Another reason why I, and many others that day, could not see the sign is because whoever placed the sign put it directly under the leaves of a tree. (See image attached). By putting it under the leaves, the visibility of the sign is extremely low, especially in the dark. There was an another tree which did not have leaves hanging low, where if the sign was put there I would've been able to see it. (I have attached the image of this too). There was a parking suspension in my street, which was very visible (put on a lamp post) and so I could very clearly see it and sought another parking spot. Not only is Arrow road extremely dark from the lack of lamp posts, the vegetation and trees make it even more dark. The signs were not clearly placed and were very easily missable. I request you to sincerely consider my appeal and take my points into account should the council want to suspend parking in Arrow road again
RESPONSE
I refer to your challenge about the above Penalty Charge Notice, which has now been
considered in accordance with the Traffic Management Act 2004.
I have noted the contents of your challenge, and you state that you did not see any visible
suspension sign when parking.
We have investigated the PCN and the Civil Enforcement Officers photos. The vehicle can be
clearly seen parked within the suspended area. The suspension sign was placed correctly and
clearly from a reasonable distance from the suspended area. Please note tree leaves covering
some part of the sign is not considered a defect or invalidates the suspension.
The suspension signs were erected on 20/06/2025 at 08:24am, all vehicles that were parked
were recorded. Unfortunately, your car was not recorded as parked in the bay prior to
suspension sign was erected.
Your vehicle was parked where a suspension was in operation marked by ‘at any time’. These
suspensions exist to help our customers to carry out essential works, filming work, highway
maintenance, construction works, for access but they can be requested for many different
reasons. Therefore, the space is reserved for a particular purpose.
Parking in a suspended bay can cause obstruction, as well as seriously inconveniencing for its
intended purposes. Unauthorised vehicles are not permitted to park in suspended spaces for
any reason and may result in a PCN issued by Civil Enforcement Officer and removed from the
bay.
Whilst I accept this may have been a genuine situation that prompted you to park, it does not
however warrant the cancellation of the PCN.
As a motorist it remains your responsibility to ensure that your vehicle is parked in accordance
with the parking regulations at all times. Ensuring all signs and bay markings are checked prior
to leaving the vehicle parked.
I must therefore still request payment of £80.00 before the end of the period of 14 days
beginning with the date of service of this letter. If payment is not received within this time the
full amount of £160.00 will be due.
If you are the owner or registered keeper of the vehicle and still wish to appeal against the
PCN, you may do so by completing a Notice to Owner (NTO), which will be sent to you in
approximately 28 days.
The Notice to Owner will state:
- How a formal representation (appeal) against the PCN may be made
- The grounds on which a representation may be made
- The sum outstanding
I must advise you that if you make a representation and we reject it then you will be liable for
the full charge of £160.00.
I also want to ask, the only way for me to appeal again is by waiting 28 days for the Notice to Owner? Also after appealing, if I get rejected do I have to pay the full amount? Im having trouble understanding this.
I have 12 days from the day posting this.
Thank you for your help
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