Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Jamezz65 on July 22, 2025, 05:17:17 pm

Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Incandescent on November 15, 2025, 12:42:09 pm
Morning, since I received my Charge certificate on the 10/10/2025 I have been contacting the TEC weekly and an Order for recovery has still not been registered.
How long is normal for Havering to issue the OFR?

Cheers.
Havering are particularly dozy, so it may be some time. You could try contacting them to see what they are doing about the matter, but don't expect too good an answer.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on November 15, 2025, 11:13:47 am
Morning, since I received my Charge certificate on the 10/10/2025 I have been contacting the TEC weekly and an Order for recovery has still not been registered.
How long is normal for Havering to issue the OFR?

Cheers.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Incandescent on October 17, 2025, 07:17:13 pm
It will be in their evidence pack when you get to London Tribunals.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on October 17, 2025, 05:37:48 pm
Does anyone know if it is possible (or even worth while) trying to find out the contents of my notice of rejection that I never received.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on October 13, 2025, 09:59:17 am
Morning, how long should I expect to wait for the OFR?
Seeing as I never received the NOR I am concerned things may escalate
in the background without my Knowledge.

Thanks
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on October 10, 2025, 07:58:05 pm
Wait for the OFR - Order for Recovery and appropriate TE form to sign in front of a witness.


https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on October 10, 2025, 03:16:53 pm
through the Havering website. And received a ref number. see links Thanks

https://ibb.co/WpBvfjfH
https://ibb.co/xqxbR6nz
https://ibb.co/GvPxgfF5
https://ibb.co/kvc1LB3
https://ibb.co/PGYQFnzZ
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: H C Andersen on October 10, 2025, 01:52:31 pm
Since I made my representations on the 25/07/2025

How were these made?
Pl post a copy.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Dumbum on October 10, 2025, 12:47:58 pm
Hi @Hippocrates, I have just received the attached CHARGE CERTIFICATE from Havering.
Since I made my representations on the 25/07/2025 I have NOT had any communication
what so ever from them.

This seems to be a thing with Havering.

See my case here. I have still not had a response to my representations despite three requests.

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-served-late/


There is an online contact form for Havering here, you do, at least get an emailed response saying they have it and a reference number which may be of use later on.

https://havering-self.achieveservice.com/service/lbh-Parking-PCN-Online-enquiry-form
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on October 10, 2025, 10:51:51 am
Hi @Hippocrates, I have just received the attached CHARGE CERTIFICATE from Havering.
Since I made my representations on the 25/07/2025 I have NOT had any communication
what so ever from them.
Should I phone them or send some other form of representation?
Any advice would be welcome. Thanks.


https://ibb.co/sd3QznzK
https://ibb.co/tpkRxC5S
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 25, 2025, 11:45:10 am
My absolute pleasure as ever. Please PM me a screenshot with date of their site.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 25, 2025, 11:43:08 am
thanks for that, I think I will follow your advice and choose other and send my representation as per your earlier draft.

Once again many thanks for your help with this matter.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 25, 2025, 11:31:33 am
Thanks for the screenshot. That is a very good question because this ground is wrong in law! It only belongs to parking legislation! I would not put them on notice of this. This is not a criticism of you.

You could choose it to play Devil's Advocate.* But, I think other would be best and just state they have served out of time.

*I have discussed this strategy several times with the other two Musketeers. cp8779 and mrmustard!
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 25, 2025, 08:51:30 am
https://imgur.com/o9P0aaW

Morning Hippocrates, I've added a screenshot from Haverings website.

Should I be selecting option F ?

many thanks.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 24, 2025, 04:53:34 pm
I am trying to access their crap site without success. I still cannot do it.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 24, 2025, 09:33:54 am
Thanks Hippocrates, yes I will hang fire.

All's cool with me thanks.
Thanks. PM sent.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 24, 2025, 09:33:17 am
Thanks Hippocrates, yes I will hang fire.

All's cool with me thanks.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 24, 2025, 09:27:34 am
morning Hippocrates. sorry if i annoyed you with my previous post, this was not my intention.

This is the first time of dealing with anything like this and finding it quite stressful.

I appreciate you time and knowledge on this subject and will be sending my representation as per your draft.

Do I have to tick any boxes indicating what grounds I am appealing on?

once again many thanks for your assistance with this matter.

No worries and I am sorry if I have offended you too. I appreciate your position - we all started from somewhere. I knew nothing 17 years ago and it took me weeks to get my head around just one legislation.

No contravention of an order or whatever it says on their website. Could you hold fire please until this evening as I am out all day and will check their website.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 24, 2025, 09:23:08 am
morning Hippocrates. sorry if i annoyed you with my previous post, this was not my intention.

This is the first time of dealing with anything like this and finding it quite stressful.

I appreciate you time and knowledge on this subject and will be sending my representation as per your draft.

Do I have to tick any boxes indicating what grounds I am appealing on?

once again many thanks for your assistance with this matter.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: ynx on July 24, 2025, 09:21:47 am
I believe that my thread (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/havering-code-47j-stopped-on-bus-stop-station-rd-balgores-rd-rm2-notice-served-l/msg82257/#msg82257) may have been the inspiration behind Jamezz65's draft. Looks like Havering is really struggling to serve the PCNs in time. However, my case is a different contravention and has a couple of other defects, so please heed the advice of the more experienced members. I'm still relatively new to this.

I'd be curious to know if I should also follow Hippocrates' advice and remove the legalese from my representation as well, or if this case is different. I don't want to hijack your thread, though, so I'll ask the same question on my thread instead. Good luck!
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 23, 2025, 08:50:17 pm
Thanks

I have compiled this representation from suggestions across this forum

Is this suitable?



Dear Havering

Ref: PCN HG6210069A          VRM EA61 EEB

I am writing to make this formal representation against the said PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following grounds:

 The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 32nd day following the alleged contravention.

 - Date of the alleged contravention: 21 June 2025
 - Date of issue: Fri, 18 July 2025
 - Deemed date of service: Tue, 22 July 2025
 - Elapsed period: 32 days.

According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022,
an enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period" beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred.

Serving the PCN on the 32nd day falls outside this statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.


Please cancel it forthwith. Should you not agree to do so and force me to go to the Tribunal, I shall without any hesitation be claiming costs.
NO
Let them do the work as you are doing their job for them. Please just send my draft. They are quite challenged at Havering. Recently they are attending hearings just to learn - from guess whom? Us.

From where did you get the part I crossed out? Have you not read my post above with the correct legislation?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 23, 2025, 05:13:07 pm
Thanks

I have compiled this representation from suggestions across this forum

Is this suitable?



Dear Havering

Ref: PCN HG6210069A           VRM EA61 EEB

I am writing to make this formal representation against the said PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following grounds:

 The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 32nd day following the alleged contravention.

 - Date of the alleged contravention: 21 June 2025
 - Date of issue: Fri, 18 July 2025
 - Deemed date of service: Tue, 22 July 2025
 - Elapsed period: 32 days.

According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022,
an enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period" beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred.
Serving the PCN on the 32nd day falls outside this statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.


Please cancel it forthwith. Should you not agree to do so and force me to go to the Tribunal, I shall without any hesitation be claiming costs.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: H C Andersen on July 23, 2025, 05:01:25 pm
But is an authority whose systems issued this in the first place to be relied upon to know the difference between 'issue' and 'service'?

I wouldn't risk it.

Dear Havering

You have served this PCN out of time.[for the following reason:

'...no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.' (S6 of London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 refers).] This PCN was served on day 32.

Please cancel it forthwith. Should you not agree to do so and force me to go to the Tribunal, I shall without any hesitation be claiming costs.


Would be my suggested change.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: MrChips on July 23, 2025, 04:43:15 pm
Less is more :)

The more you add, the higher likelihood Havering will just respond to the other bits and completely ignore the fact the PCN is void.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 23, 2025, 04:32:20 pm
Thanks for all your help.
should my representation to Havering be the short paragraph HIPPOCRATES suggested or does it need more meat on it?
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: MrChips on July 23, 2025, 04:15:07 pm
If for some reason it gets that far, you can still mention the other point at a future adjudication, even if you didn't raise it now.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: John U.K. on July 23, 2025, 04:03:17 pm
Thanks for the help so far.
If I make representation for the out of time PCN should I also state about the fact the other car moved into my space preventing me from exiting the box?


No - if the PCN is out of time it is a nullity.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 23, 2025, 04:00:37 pm
Thanks for the help so far.
If I make representation for the out of time PCN should I also state about the fact the other car moved into my space preventing me from exiting the box?
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 23, 2025, 03:27:09 pm
Also the PCN is missing mandatory information provided at 4.8 (v):

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted

(v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;

I would not use this as I do not want them educated - yet.

****************

I suggest:

Dear Havering

You have served this PCN out of time.

Please cancel it forthwith. Should you not agree to do so and force me to go to the Tribunal, I shall without any hesitation be claiming costs.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: MrChips on July 23, 2025, 03:20:41 pm
NB although the PCN is void due to missing the deadline for service, due to the way the process works you still have to submit representations to this effect and have them accepted by Havering. If you ignore it, they will win by default.

Let us know if you want some draft representation wording or if you are ok to handle it yourself.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Hippocrates on July 23, 2025, 03:16:27 pm
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-being-in-a-bus-lane-camden-road-sw-bnd-from-camden-street/msg82294/#msg82294

(1)Subject to the provisions of this section, no penalty charge notice may be served under this Act after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: MrChips on July 22, 2025, 07:34:22 pm
Service is assumed to be two business days after posting = 22 July.

Alleged offence 21 June

PCN served on day 32 (21 June is day 1)
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 22, 2025, 07:13:33 pm
The incident was the 21/06/2025
Date of Notice 18/07/2025
letter received 22/07/2025

Does the 28days count upto getting the letter?
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: MrChips on July 22, 2025, 07:05:45 pm
In that case your chances of winning are (almost) 100%. The PCN has been served on you outside the 28 days allowed in the legislation.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 22, 2025, 07:03:23 pm
I own the car.
Title: Re: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: MrChips on July 22, 2025, 06:47:38 pm
Do you own the car yourself, or is it hired/leased?
Title: Havering PCN 31J Main road/Upper Brentwood road rm2
Post by: Jamezz65 on July 22, 2025, 05:17:17 pm
Good afternoon, I have just received a pcn for trying to turn right through a yellow box. As I passed through the box my exit was clear until a vehicle (EF15 NKE) switched lanes causing me to stop in the yellow box. what are my chances of winning an appeal with Havering Council?


https://imgur.com/a/jCVlnk9


https://maps.app.goo.gl/acsU5gf5QhCvWy8N6