Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Banjo on July 17, 2025, 02:28:21 pm
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Hi All
I got a PCN for this very spot in Newham Council. I made a representation/Appeal through the council's website, for which I got the confirmation reference number and all(auto reply email). I made the representation in mid-June'25, and today to my surprise I received a Charge Notice, saying that the penalty amount has now increased by 50% to GBP240, since I did not pay the original within the stipulated time.
I am a bit surprised, shocked and angry all at the same time as I was expecting a response to appeal first of all. The Charge Notice does not have any contact details of the council or anything and I can't go through the council's website to appeal against the Charge Notice or anything. It may well be an administrative error on the council's part but only they know, we are simply victims of their 'innocence'. Also the Charge Notice is demanding the payment of the penalty within 14 days of the Notice Date (i.e. 21st August 2025), where as I only received it through post today 27th August.
Any advice on what I should do would be much appreciated.
Start your own thread please. Rule is one OP per thread
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Yes I was going along Royal Albert Way towards Royal Albert Roundabout as I had left an event at the Excel centre and heading back up to North London. There were absolutely loads of people heading the same way so I expect Newham will have made a mint from that evening.
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So this is a different location? On the register is that what searching for Royal Albert Way returns as the register does have just this as a location.
Note in the video four drivers go through in procession so this doesn't look like an obvious restriction although people often follow blindly.
(https://i.ibb.co/zWW7MkKv/Media2-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
I made a bit of a hash of explaining it. So I've amended my original post.
Yes it is a different location. The OPs PCN is for the western end of Royal Albert Way. I don't think we've had one for this location on the forum before. The ones we're accustomed to are from the eastern end.
Searching the statutory register gives:
Royal Albert Way = 239 cases
Royal Albert Way E16 = 0 cases
Royal Albert Way E16 / Gallions Roundabout E16 = 8 cases & all are directions made
Royal Albert Way E16 / Royal Albert Roundabout E16 = 0 cases
The 3rd location is curious as this is the location given on the recent PCNs. Maybe the Tribunal truncates the location when the appeal is registered, so "Royal Albert Way E16 / Gallions Roundabout E16" appears as "Royal Albert Way". So there may well be some western end PCNs lurking in the 239.
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So this is a different location? On the register is that what searching for Royal Albert Way returns as the register does have just this as a location.
Note in the video four drivers go through in procession so this doesn't look like an obvious restriction although people often follow blindly.
(https://i.ibb.co/zWW7MkKv/Media2-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
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Whoa stop! Reset.
The cases we normally see all concern exiting from the Gallions Reach roundabout onto Royal Albert Way A1020. This roundabout is at the UEL campus end of Royal Albert Way.
However your postal PCN is for exiting the Royal Albert roundabout onto the Royal Albert Way in the other direction. This roundabout is in front of the Newham Council HQ at the Excel end of the road. I don't think we've had one of these before, might be new.
There are only 8 cases on the Tribunal Register for location Royal Albert Way E16 / Gallions Roundabout E16. They are all directions made as a result of referred Statutory Declarations, none are appeal outcomes. And there are 0 cases for Royal Albert Way E16 / Royal Albert Roundabout E16, the subject of this contravention.
That explains the revised camera angle as it's a different location. Looks like there are two of the same LED variable display signs. They normally show 40mph and switch to the flying motor cycle signs when the prohibition hours are active. There are no time plates showing the prohibited hours.
The signs are in the Sep & Oct 2024 GSV, see here (https://maps.app.goo.gl/uiPaMMNkLwoPuHmk6).
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Case reference 2250126191
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Previously, this prohibition was signed by LED signage which was illuminated when the prohibition was in force.
The council has removed that signage, and posted signage in accordance with diagram 619 of The Traffic Signs and Regulations and General Directions 2016 in its place.
It provides images at 'H' showing the approach to the prohibition.
Albeit that the prohibition is posted off a roundabout, the council's advance warning signage appearing to refer to the LED signage that was previously in place, I am satisfied that the council's new regulatory signage was sufficient to alert the appellant to this prohibition, it being open to him to take a non-restricted route, and I find this contravention proved.
I refuse the appeal.
That decision is very inaccurate, for a contravention on the 23rd Dec 2024. The LED variable display signs at the start of Royal Albert Way were still there then and are still there now. At least the offside one must be. It's in the video that this OP posted for a contravention on 5th Jul 2025, more than six months later.
There were and are no new diagram 619 signs present, they're the same LED variable display signs. The camera angle no longer includes the left side sign which is on the bend from the roundabout.
Maybe the Council does intend to change the signs but they haven't done so yet. It seems that the Adjudicator has got mixed-up as to which signs are where.
To my mind the main argument hasn't changed. The signs and the advance warnings individually might be legal but taken as a whole they are inadequate. There is still nothing to indicate the prohibited hours to enter Royal Albert Way. There are two lanes exiting the roundabout onto Royal Albert Way and a driver is committed to the turn before they can assimilate the meaning of the signs assuming the signs are illuminated. And we don't know about the nearside sign in this case as it's not in the video.
I can't imagine it's legal to start reversing onto a roundabout to take an alternative route. The Met Police would likely take a dim view of that. As would your insurer when the inevitable happens.
And does anybody have the traffic order? What are the restricted hours?
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This is the problem... I'm relying on GSV as I'm not close enough to go have a look myself.
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Not hopeful about this as last few appeals refused, eg:
Case reference 2250126191
The contravention alleged in these proceedings is that this vehicle at Royal Albert Way failed to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle.
Upon the appellant raising the issue of signage.
Previously, this prohibition was signed by LED signage which was illuminated when the prohibition was in force.
The council has removed that signage, and posted signage in accordance with diagram 619 of The Traffic Signs and Regulations and General Directions 2016 in its place.
It provides images at 'H' showing the approach to the prohibition.
Albeit that the prohibition is posted off a roundabout, the council's advance warning signage appearing to refer to the LED signage that was previously in place, I am satisfied that the council's new regulatory signage was sufficient to alert the appellant to this prohibition, it being open to him to take a non-restricted route, and I find this contravention proved.
I refuse the appeal.
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Hi All,
I've drafted the following regarding my appeal, please let me know what you think. This is based on going through the allowed appeals and adjudicator comments. Unfortunately I live quite far away from the location (about 3-4 hours round trip) so I'm relying on Google Maps for the preceeding signage and am just hoping that it hasn't changed since.
I am appealing PCN 771911293. I find the signage is inadequate in informing drivers that a prohibition on all motor vehicles entering Royal Albert Way is in effect.
Prior to the Royal Albert Way roundabout there are signs that display “Traffic camera enforcement at Royal Albert Way”. However, they do not contain any further information, such as what the restriction is or the hours of enforcement. I do not consider that these signs provide adequate information or warning to motorists regarding the restrictions in place. The signs could easily be construed as simply having speed cameras on Royal Albert Way.
There is no diagrammatic indication that the entry to one of the roundabout exits is effectively prohibited. By the time a vehicle exits the roundabout, it is too late and might be hazardous to take evasive action. The road upon which the restriction is located is a dual carriageway and therefore a vehicle that has exited the roundabout has no apparent way of avoiding the restriction in a safe manner.
From memory, I do not recall the sign on the left hand side of the dual carriageway being illuminated. The video footage shows that the right hand side illuminated sign is visible, which could also be mistaken as a prohibition on continuing along the roundabout and proceeding towards Dockside Road.
I would also like to point out section 1.3.2 of the Traffic Signs Manual, that states:
“In order to achieve safe and efficient operation of a highway network, it is essential that all signing provided is necessary, clear and unambiguous, and gives its message to road users at the appropriate time. The message must be quickly and easily understood at the point it is needed; neither too soon that the information might be forgotten, nor too late for the safe performance of any necessary manoeuvre.”
I feel that the council has not provided adequacy or compliance of its signage and therefore the Penalty Charge Notice should be cancelled.
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Here is an example of the totally crap signage: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/L193Tta1uvzTJsFq8
Nothing on the main sign, and a couple of yellow signs that are not traffic signs, in fact they are close to being unlawful, I would say.
And does this sign tell you anything useful ?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/H9Vts3rCgEs2MFM2A
and here's another crap sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZWwMkmVatLAoKzpU7
and if you pass this sign in the day, it tells you there are what ? Speed cameras ?
and another crap sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/PMBgmKLjLZ1X7Qpv5
then, the ONLY sign of any remote relevance
https://maps.app.goo.gl/e9YPeWBD8rLG49cC7
but how does a motorist know when it is closed, and more importantly, if a stranger, why would he know the road name, if he's following a road number.
So this, just has to be the biggest failure of a council to adhere to Regulation 18 of LATOR 1996
Edit
More of the crap
https://maps.app.goo.gl/y6UhwWLAof1QraTd9
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Under what should you do so is rather confusing.
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Adjudicator Carl Teper allowed an appeal and in his reasons, stated that the sign does not reflect the traffic order, because it is time-limited yet a person passing during the day would not be aware of this sign, which only comes on at the restricted times. The signage locally is just completely useless but obviously it is a nice little earner for Newham, who therefore have no incentive whatsoever to make improvements.
Best to check current signs, though, because GSV was not up-to-date the last time I looked.
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Curious. They've changed the camera angle so that it avoids showing the signs on the nearside (left carriageway) pavement altogether. They are emphasising the offside (right carriageway) signs, probably in an effort to de-emphasise the left side signs which you cannot really see (assimilate) until the driver is committed to turning off the roundabout onto Royal Albert Way.
And there still is no time-plate, at least on the right side signs. The restriction is not 24 x 7. It's 11pm to 2am or something like that. The sign as it is implies 24x7.
Have a look for recent cases on here and cases you can find on the Tribunal register. Post up a draft of your representations for scrutiny.
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Thank you, I'm looking through the appeals now on the site that you linked.
Judging from the video evidence posted, does anybody think I have a chance of appealing and saying that the left hand signage was not visible? It's not visible in their camera footage, only the one on the right hand side of the road is which isn't easy to spot when approaching from the left.
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There have been a lot of allowed appeals at the tribunal here but I think Newham has improved the signage or layout.
I suggest you check the tribunal register for most recent decisions.
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
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Hi All,
First post here. I have just received a PCN from Newham council for contravention 52m - Failing to comply with a prohibition on certain types of vehicle (motor vehicles). This was on Royal Albert Way E16/Royal Albert Roundabout E16 on 5 July. I had just left the Excel centre as hundreds of other people did and were going the same way.
From memory there was no preceding signs warning of this, and from the photo/video footage it appears that the sign is on the right hand side showing the restriction but I didn't see anything on the left side of the road where I was travelling.
A google revealed that quite a lot of people have been stung at the same place and led me to this forum.
I've attached the letter and the media from the site, any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
(https://i.imgur.com/FuHzuJa.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KA2CtAE.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jy58B2p.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/G08K8TL.jpeg)
https://imgur.com/0sWEVvw
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