Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Jogon on July 17, 2025, 02:27:02 pm
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Just a final update to this particular one.
The missing blips were pivotal to them having to cancel the ticket (thanks of course to the input within this thread)
After cancelling their ticket as a 'gesture of goodwill' (interpreted as they were in the wrong).
I was back there today, July was the issue, since then they have resurfaced that part of the road, at a later date they repainted the double yellow lines and in the past month they have no added the blips.
I wonder how many others have paid the fine at this particular location? I guess the local authority won't be making any refunds.
Here are the blips
(https://i.postimg.cc/WdNnrqFC/yup.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WdNnrqFC)
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I have now heard back from the Council re my appealing the alleged contravention.
The letter is enclosed, what I will add to the letter is that the kerb markings were not faded as they simply were not there as my initial photos showed. Further to that and before I lodged this appeal after having my first one refused the lines had been freshly repainted but the blips again were not in attendance. I’ll have to check them in the next week or so to see if they do add them.
Thankyou again to those giving their advice, which without I would have struggled I’m sure.
Again, Thankyou!
(https://i.ibb.co/1GvSPNn3/burton-parking-final.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fd1cyWSb)
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Now added and sent.
Thankyou to those commenting in this post, I’ll update just as soon as I hear back from the Council.
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Wrong location is relevant and can be added to your reps.
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I guess it’s of no relevance but on the NTO it clearly states ‘Manor Croft’. but it’s actually Manor Drive , Manor Croft is the other side of the car park. This is from google maps 2025
(https://i.ibb.co/99SYwJhM/manor-drive.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C5D0Jq6r)
..
(https://i.ibb.co/1tLZtfQc/manor-croft.jpg) (https://ibb.co/67mY7RwQ)
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Thankyou, i’ll do just that
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There's no requirement to use the form, it's there as an option.
Simply prepare your reps, then cut and paste into an email which you send to:
https://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/Highways/Parking-and-enforcement/On-Street-Parking/Penalty-charge-notices/On-street-parking-enforcement.aspx
Make sure the email that's used is that of the registered keeper and IMO put their name in the heading along with the PCN number and vehicle registration.
I am making formal representations under the grounds of 'contravention did not occur' as follows:
*******
Sign off with the name of the person to whom the NTO is addressed.
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Here is there rear of the form, will add the above as why I'm contesting it but which part do i fill in on the rear (signaturebeing obvious).
Thankyou!
(https://i.ibb.co/q3X9pDdT/rearburtpark.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jPBGD8Tn)
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Both my partner (badge holder) and I were in the vehicle at the time, I am not sure if it was I or my partner was the driver at the time (we visit there several times a week) I am the legal owner of the vehicle.
Their initial response is included.
Where have I been? I have been away until Sunday this week, due the the lenght of time away I had our mail kept at the sorting office, they delivered all of our collected mail this morning (Monday 8th). the date they sent the NTO (notice to owner) was the day after we were away and no idea when it arrived in our mail being kept.
In edit: Yes you are indeed correct re it needs to be in by the 9th, tomorrow (my mistake)
(https://i.ibb.co/fgywn0n/council-reply.jpg) (https://ibb.co/50SHncn)
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OP, what does this mean?
I have received an Nto it needs to be back my midnight tonight, how do I fill the form in?
Firstly, as the NTO is dated 11 Aug, the latest date is 9th i.e. 23.59 9th.
Secondly, where has the NTO/you been since 13 Aug?
Until now, we've not explored the issue of who is the registered keeper and in this forum 'I have received' has a variety of meanings.
So, are you the registered keeper? If so, when did you receive the NTO?
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As time is of the essence just email them HC Andersen's reps, ensuring you put 'Representations against PCN no xxxxxx' in the email subject and repeat at the start of the email body, Representations against PCN no xxxxxx.
I changed they to you.
Did they include any pics in their rejection - all your attachments are gone. You need to check the below is accurate.
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Representations against PCN no xxxxxx
I parked and as I always do as a BB holder checked whether loading 'blips' were present. None was present as can be in the council's photos and confirmed in your letter dated ****.
That the council wish to deny your legal duty to sign restrictions (assuming one exists) lawfully is a matter for the council. But it is unforgivable that you would then seek to penalise a motorist who, because of the council's failure, did not look for or at a sign when no such duty fell to them is a disgrace.
By virtue of failing to place clear loading kerb markings when lawfully required to do so - as per the Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 and The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 - the council is unable to demand a penalty from motorists for any contravention directly related to this failure.
The PCN must be cancelled.
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Thankyou John much appreciated and noted.
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For convenience:
(https://i.ibb.co/7t1RHd03/parkburt1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cs7z63tv/parjkburt2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(For future reference, scroll down past each image to find the BBCode, highlight and copy then paste in your post here.)
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Links to the NTo, both sides
https://ibb.co/fGp29zSt
https://ibb.co/QvKCZ3xW
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I have received an Nto it needs to be back my midnight tonight, how do I fill the form in?
One point of note, it points to the location being Manor Croft Burton, but it's actually the other side of the car park and is known as Manor drive. I can't seem to post any pdfs of the form that i've now copied, or the link for the car poark (there are links to it on google above i think
Update to this and I've just returned home after a lenghty stay away, I have until midnight to fill this in (will be sending it by email)
Absence of blips and the above comment frtom HD Andersen still the preferred option.
The enclosed in an NTO
(the links to the documents , there is no attachment setting any longer?
https://ibb.co/xt8f7pSG
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Frankly, you are obliged to look for or at the sign.
I parked and as I always do as a BB holder checked whether loading 'blips' were present. None was present as can be in the council's photos and confirmed in their letter dated ****.
That the council wish to deny their legal duty to sign restrictions(assuming one exists) lawfully is a matter for the council. But it is unforgivable that they would then seek to penalise a motorist who, because of the council's failure, did not look for or at a sign when no such duty fell to them is a disgrace.
By virtue of failing to place clear loading kerb markings when lawfully required to do so - The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996 and The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 refer - the council is unable to demand a penalty from motorists for any contravention directly related to this failure.
The PCN must be cancelled.
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Forget the sign across the road - it's for a parking bay.
As I said, ask the council to send you its pictures.
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Yes, your car is right by the sign, but the kerb blips are missing, so the signing is inadequate. Kerb blips are mandatory in this situation. HOwever, whether you want to risk the extra £35 is another matter, only you can decide.
Any reason you missed seeing the sign ?
If the blimps are mandatory and they're missing what is the risk of continuing non payment?
I do usually check for kerb blips but as for the sigh it's not hard to miss given it's about 3inc by 6in and right opposite me on the other side was this one
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yes, your car is right by the sign, but the kerb blips are missing, so the signing is inadequate. Kerb blips are mandatory in this situation. HOwever, whether you want to risk the extra £35 is another matter, only you can decide.
Any reason you missed seeing the sign ?
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Date of Rejection?
22nd July is the date of their letter
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Ask them to email you their pictures.
Seems they concede no kerb blips - they need to be at least substantially compliant to enforce this as the no loading sign is there to draw attention to the no loading restriction not to stand alone.
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Date of Rejection?
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Well the council rejected my argument re the blips and came back with:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thankyou to all contributors, I emailed my challenge to them last night including photos demonstrating the lack of blips, we'll see what they come back with.
I wonder how many other motorists have recently been given a similar ticket at the same location and paid up.
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Staffordshire doesn't have pics online but will produce them if it rejects your challenge, which should simply be that the contravention did not occur as there were no kerb blips visible to you to indicate a loading restriction.
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Here is the rear of the PCN
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here is the GSV view of 2022. The double kerb blips are clearly visible
https://maps.app.goo.gl/B5vCvo3Kikeyn2Ad6
and again in 2024
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5gxxydzDBPGiSyFK8
the blips have almost disappeared
So what is the council duty in relation to signs they erect to restrict traffic and parking ? Well, it's all in Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18#:~:text=18.%E2%80%94(1,the%20wrong%20positions.
Note the content of 18 (1)(b) re maintenance.
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No blips = no contravention.
As a BB holder you are entitled to park on DYLs for a fixed period, HOwever you mustn't park if there are keb blips, (single or double). The presence of blips tells you there is a loading restriction therefore you must go and find the sign telling you what those are. If not blips are present, then you have no requirement to look for the sign. However, try telling that to the thick and stupid people councils seem to employ in their parking departments.
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Sorry, will put the other side up when home, this is the yellow lines 15m either side of where the car was parked
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Both sides of the PCN pl.
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Unredacted pcn
No photos available by the authority that I can see, it states if I want to challenge/dispute the ticket I have to email
them or write to them direct.
I can confirm there are no blips anywhere on those double yellows, but will take a photo of them in the next hour or so as I’m going past there shortly.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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OP, if the 14-day point is imminent then it follows that the photos taken by the CEO would be on the authority's website.
Over to you for the PCN, incl. VRM and PCN no.
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Doesn't look like any kerb blips visible but we must see the unredacted PCN.
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I did take a pic of the double yellows, this is them and the same sign.
I have to either pay the reduced amount by midnight tonight (ticket issued 4th July, reduced oayment by midnight tonight 13th or appeal
[attachment deleted by admin]
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It's not the upright traffic sign that's your concern because the sign isn't required, the DYL with double kerb blips(DKB) are sufficient in their own right.
So:
1. The DYL and DKB are present = you're in contravention;
2. As for 1 but also with a sign to the effect 'No loading at any time' = you're in contravention;
3. Either the DYL or DKB aren't present/substantially compliant = you have a defence.
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Post the PCN with no redactions.
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Parked on double yellows with Disabled badge, but didn't spot the sign that said 'No Loading at Any time'. and was promptly ticketed by a council CEO.
The sign was stupidly small but I'm guessing there is no real defence to this?
No loading at any time isn't the same as parking until it's a council sign ?
[attachment deleted by admin]