Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: dexx99 on October 16, 2023, 10:38:38 pm
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Thanks Hippocrates, but it's the forum that deserves the congratulations for giving me the courage to push all the way and in the end the council tripped themselves up as we'd hoped.
Thanks to all those supported especially CP8759 who was ready to argue my appeal before Hillingdon in their 'wisdom' replied with 'Do Not Contest'. I reckon the thought of going up against CP8759 was the overiding factor which forced them in to submission. :'(
I attach the letter from LBOH declaring NFA. ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53581902286_cce216a892_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pCRfMu)WhatsApp Image 2024-03-11 at 21.18.28 (https://flic.kr/p/2pCRfMu) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
The only slight loose end is I never received an email from E&TA to affirm the decision, but the letter is good enough for me.
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Well done dexx99 for not joining The Mugged Club!
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DNC'ed.
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@dexx99 I sent you a PM (https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=pm) on Sunday, if you want to take me up on that just follow the instructions in the message.
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Hi CP8759,
No that's fine I just presumed I needed to attend too.
I would be more than happy for you to represent me without my attendance by phone so please let me know the process I need to follow to take up your kind offer?
Thanks.
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cp8759 does his hearings by phone. The appellant can also attend by phone. If he agrees, you should follow his advice to the letter.
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Personal hearings are done in person or by telephone. If you opt to have one of the experts here to represent you, then this person will attend in person or by 'phone as your rep. You may, of course, also be present. If you wish to be represented, contact CP8759 (Reply#26) with a PM.
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Hi Guys,
If I opt for representation so that I presume means to attend in person. What does representation entail and obviously cost is an important factor for me.
Btw,Thanks again to helping me to get to this stage to everyone involved.
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I would suggest the OP needs representation and to include all valid points.
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The 28 day period to pay the full charge is from the date of service, not the date of the notice, so they've cut it short by at least two days.
You don't need a skeleton argument to file an appeal.
Would you like to be represented or do you want to represent yourself? Whatever you do, the key is to request a hearing and not opt for a decision on the papers.
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Hi Guys,
I have taken it this far so I am happy to appeal and I understand that isn't without a level of risk.
Just for clarification what exactly is incorrect with the payment date as stated as I am not aware?
CP8759 I take it I would also appeal to the PA as Hippocrates mentions for failure to consider too or is that a mute point if we have them on payment date being incorrect?
I'd be extremely grateful for the skeleton argument to make my appeal and the exact date I need to submit that by as no point I presume to submit that on-line earlier than necessary?
Thanks as always for all your great help! :)
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There's an argument to be made around the issue of the resolution, but the payment date being wrong looks pretty open and shut. I don't think there's many adjudicators who would refuse an appeal in this case.
However no appeal is risk-free, so dexx99 needs to decide whether he wants to carry on.
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1. Failure to consider?
2. Date in which to pay the full rate?
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Hi All,
I just received the NOR from LBOH so please find the details below:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495295321_1fccec5b4b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvcnxX)IMG_20240129_0002_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvcnxX) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495441868_d33f3e54dd_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvd87C)IMG_20240129_0003_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvd87C) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495710965_81bd535aaf_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvev7e)IMG_20240129_0004_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvev7e) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495594859_d1e0405e8f_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvdUAp)IMG_20240129_0005_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvdUAp) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495441843_da6da8da8a_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvd87c)IMG_20240129_0006_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvd87c) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495594844_7f73f47bee_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvdUA9)IMG_20240129_0007_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvdUA9) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53495710955_a8a6f0a1e2_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pvev74)IMG_20240129_0008_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pvev74) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53494405242_d32d30eae3_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pv7NXL)IMG_20240129_0009_1 (https://flic.kr/p/2pv7NXL) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
Really appreciate your guidance whether it's best to pay the lower reinstated charge of £55 or as CP8759 suggested I have credible grounds to win on appeal to the Parking Adjudicator using the evidence that Parking services did not consider the image I uploaded with my Reps as tracking shows no clicks?
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I submitted the appeal as posted in the end to meet the appeal deadline today.
Hopefully I have setup the link correctly to monitor if Parking services click on the image provided or not, fingers crossed they fail in that obligation to get me off the hook!
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Hi CP8759,
Firstly, apologies for my late post as again I have been ill again due to my condition. :(
I still don't feel the best, but know tomorrow is the deadline to submit Reps on-line. I have done my best to provide mitigation as grounds for appeal, but I guess it is a mute point in any case as the primary hope is to provide a link to an image that Hillingdon Parking services omit to consider.
Please review the grounds below and amend as you see fit:
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Dear Sir/Madam,
On 16/10/23 I parked my vehicle at what I interpreted to be a blue signpost permitting unrestricted pavement parking on Monmouth Road, Hayes.
Upon return to my vehicle, I discovered a parking charge notice (HN13693833) affixed to my vehicle. The parking charge notice alleged that I had contravened: ‘62 - Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or ant part of a road other than a carriageway.
I am not in breach of this contravention for the following reasons;
• The signpost was misleading due to my direction of travel on the date the alleged contravention occurred. Please consider as evidence the image via the attached link to provide the context of the direction of travel and approach to the signage that led me to believe pavement parking was permissible:
• In all good faith the footway was believed to be an unrestricted and permissible area to park with one or more wheels on or over a footpath.
• There was no indication the area parked in would obstruct and inconvenience pedestrians, people in wheelchairs, those with visual impairments, and people with prams and pushchairs.
• Being a person of disability, I used all reasonable due diligence to park safely as I am loathe to cause any potential danger especially where vulnerable pedestrians and road users are concerned.
• In accordance with the mitigating circumstances and the protections provided under the Equality Act 2010, Schedule 13, s.98 I believe it would be discriminatory on the part of the London borough of Hillingdon to reject the afforded protection as grounds for appeal.
• If this matter were to proceed to civil court I am confident that LBOH would be found to be failing in its duty to show reasonable discretion in accordance with The EA 2010 S13, s98.
• The Equality Act 2010 aims to protect people from discrimination and disadvantage. I believe that you should cancel my ticket on the basis The Equality Act 2010 Schedule 13 Section 98, requires ‘reasonable adjustment’ to be applied in the case of a persons who suffer from a mental health Disability.
Considering the above it is clear that I am not liable for the parking charge, and I request that the parking charge notice is cancelled accordingly.
Your Sincerely,
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CP8759, please find the image uploaded to imgur.com as suggested to create the necessary link we need to monitor if Parking services consider it as required or not:
(https://i.imgur.com/cCoB8aB.png)
Thanks for all your support with this and let me know if you require anything further to make Reps by the required deadline tomorrow of 10th Jan.
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Thanks HC-Anderson for clarifying I may continue on my Dad's behalf without raising an LOA. I was just following CP8759's instruction and got myself confused.
Okay, for now will put aside the fact that the NTO was issued in my Father's name on 12th December and makes reps on-line by 10th Jan deadline on his behalf.
Thanks All.
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OP, you are at the NTO stage and I don't understand why formal written authority is needed at this stage for the purpose of submitting reps. All you need to do is to write the reps yourself and, if sending by post, simply get your father to sign - after all, this is all you're doing with written authorisation i.e. drafting and getting him to sign! Alternatively, simply log on to their online portal and fill in for him. Providing he's in agreement then there's no problem.
A letter of authority would be needed if and when the matter goes to adjudication.
Concentrate on the reps pl which should be submitted no later than 10 Jan.
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I was hoping someone from the forum would provide me with a suitable Letter of Authority template, but no matter.
I found this example of a LOA on-line below am I good to go with this? If there any specific recommendations for filing in the blanks, then please let me know.
[SENDER NAME]
SENDER ADDRESS
SENDER CITY
SENDER STATE/COUNTY
SENDER ZIP/POSTAL CODE
DATE
[RECIPIENT NAME]
RECIPIENT ADDRESS
RECIPIENT STATE/COUNTY
RECIPIENT ZIP/POSTAL CODE
Letter of Authorization
Dear [RECIPIENT NAME],
I, [SENDER NAME], hereby authorize [RECIPIENT NAME] to (describe the authorization scope) on my behalf, starting from [START DATE] until [END DATE].
This authorization includes, but is not limited to:
• List of specific tasks or actions that the authorized person is allowed to perform
• List any limitations or restrictions on the authorized person's actions
I affirm that the authorized person has my full consent and authority to act on my behalf in all matters related to the authorization scope mentioned above. I acknowledge that I am fully responsible for any consequences that may arise from the authorized person's actions.
Furthermore, I authorize the authorized person to have access to any necessary documents, data, or information that may be required to carry out the authorized tasks or actions.
Please contact me at if you have any questions or concerns regarding this letter of authorization.
Sincerely,
(Signature)
[SENDER NAME]
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Any chance anyone can help me with the Letter of Authority I need to get signed and submit LBOH.
Many thanks in advance.
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Yes, should be fine. Is there a template of how the letter of authority needs to be drafted?
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I received the NTO today, however the NTO is in my dad's name despite the V5 being reregistered in my name since 1st November 2023.
Please let me know how best to proceed accordingly?
It's the owner at the time of the contravention who is liable, hence the NTO being made out to your dad. Can you get him to sign a letter of authority allowing you to act on his behalf?
In the meantime here are:
The Working Party minutes 15 June 1987 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=177zTJEwmvED7d6ulom5s2ZKkyc4M7EMy)
The Works Committee report - 7 September 1987 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1sYdBr0IsCmi5_qBNp_5REwjrT0b04KbD)
The Works Committee Minutes 7 September 1987 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1lo3ih85JZuOt8sg_mHvy27xhKk02lXqf)
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I received the NTO today, however the NTO is in my dad's name despite the V5 being reregistered in my name since 1st November 2023.
Please let me know how best to proceed accordingly?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53395387656_69a8773714_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pmnju1)WhatsApp Image 2023-12-13 at 15.51.12 (https://flic.kr/p/2pmnju1) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53395826575_8e57a0231e_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pmpyXz)WhatsApp Image 2023-12-13 at 15.51.27 (https://flic.kr/p/2pmpyXz) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53395826740_a2e51f8a2c_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pmpz1q)WhatsApp Image 2023-12-13 at 15.52.27 (https://flic.kr/p/2pmpz1q) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53395388261_c346c6a2e5_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pmnjEr)WhatsApp Image 2023-12-13 at 15.53.02 (https://flic.kr/p/2pmnjEr) by Dexx99 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
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Upon receiving the NTO will the forum be able to assist with the skeleton argument to appeal for discretion (assuming I will have to fill in the blanks regards disability) and an image I want them to consider?
At the notice to owner stage there is no appeal and no skeleton argument, it's just a written representation to the authority. Yes we will help with that, when you get the NTO post up a draft on here and we'll review it for you.
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Thanks for your comments, guys.
The last day of discount expires today I believe, and I want to carry on with your kind assistance.
So, I do nothing until I receive the NTO from LBOH and make Reps accordingly. I have received the new V5 registered correctly in my name and all the details are correct.
As proposed, I will make an appeal for discretion based upon my disability. I have downloaded Linkly which successfully counts clicks to the image link I sent in my previous post.
Upon receiving the NTO will the forum be able to assist with the skeleton argument to appeal for discretion (assuming I will have to fill in the blanks regards disability) and an image I want them to consider?
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How do we setup the image so as to know if the council has viewed it or not?
Put the picture on imgur.com or similar and I'll set up the link for you.
Just as an aside the date of the letter was 9th November, so is the date of serving deemed to be Saturday 11th and thereby the discounted period expires on midnight of 25th November?
Weekends don't count, so if the notice is dated 9 November the date of service is Monday 13th and the last day to pay the discount is 26th November.
That being said if you want to carry on, you don't need to do anything apart from checking that the address on the V5C is 100% accurate and up to date (don't assume).
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That's a shame! :(
So, as page 8 lists Monmouth Road we can't use the resolution argument as LBOH has the right to enforce parking according to the signage in place.
CP8759 from the gist of your link my options are to make reps for discretion and provide some form of click to view image to hopefully trip the council up if they fail to consider it too?
As mitigation I could state the Equality Act 2010 and belief the council should use its power to apply discretion on this occasion as a form of 'reasonable adjustment'. Just seeing me as another member of the public can be argued to be a form of discrimination under the act.
In any case I believe it is unreasonable to have expected due to my direction of travel I would have realised the reverse of the blue sign was marked with a red diagonal cross signalling the start of the restriction from the opposite perspective which is essentially what tripped me up.
The image I could provide is a link to the sign in the direction of travel as I approached it to hopefully make the council trip up if as I expect any plea for discretion by itself will fall on deaf ears as they tend to.
How do we setup the image so as to know if the council has viewed it or not?
Just as an aside the date of the letter was 9th November, so is the date of serving deemed to be Saturday 11th and thereby the discounted period expires on midnight of 25th November?
Thanks.
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Working Party minutes 15 June 1987 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=177zTJEwmvED7d6ulom5s2ZKkyc4M7EMy).
Works Committee report - 7 September 1987 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1sYdBr0IsCmi5_qBNp_5REwjrT0b04KbD)
Works Committee Minutes 7 September 1987 (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1lo3ih85JZuOt8sg_mHvy27xhKk02lXqf) (see page 8).
In the circumstances you might want to consider this strategy: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/city-of-edinburgh-02-parked-in-a-restricted-street-lochrin-buildings-gilmour-pla/msg7413/#msg7413
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I got the response to my Reps from Hillingdon Council which were rejected and I attach for your further advice.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53323649987_09c4d9225d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pf2DnD)WhatsApp Image 2023-11-11 at 15.14.50 (https://flic.kr/p/2pf2DnD) by Dexx (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53324959590_fdb6148478_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pf9mF1)WhatsApp Image 2023-11-11 at 15.09.03 (https://flic.kr/p/2pf9mF1) by Dexx (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53324737153_97834d8f96_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pf8dxT)WhatsApp Image 2023-11-11 at 15.09.22 (https://flic.kr/p/2pf8dxT) by Dexx (https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/), on Flickr
Unwillingness to provide the Resolution outside of an arbitration hopefully means they haven't made the necessary stipulation for Monmouth Road.
CP8759 I graciously await to hear on the outcome of obtaining the Resolution.
Thanks.
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Thanks immensely Pastmybest,
Representations submitted as recommended as the backup argument and that gives us more time for CP8759's application for the resolution to come through too.
Many thanks for everyone's brilliant support! :)
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Make a simple representation but add a spanner to delay a quick and simple response.
Dear Mr parking
I challenge the service of PCN number xxxxxxxx to my vehicle AA 23 BCD on the basis that the contravention did not occur
I parked within an are governed by sign 667 I could see sign 667.2 at the end of the road.
In order to disallow the ban on footway parking a resolution of the council must be made. The signage indicated shows that i was within this area, If the council disagree I require that the provide the resolution disallowing the footway parking ban on Monmouth road in order that the correct interpretation can be made
Send that once you have entered the details Even if they come up with the resolution it leaves open an argument re the positioning of the signs
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Hi CP8759,
Whilst you still await the resolution from LBOH is there a specific representation you would recommend I make by midnight on 29th Oct?
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This road is on the Hillingdon Footway Parking Exemptions Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ybMdnj875LWi-a4hOtgHLXI9fLuqWGtS/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=112607814692860443479&rtpof=true&sd=true), but getting the resolution will take some time. In the meantime, you should make a representation on day 14 (so by midnight on 29 October) in order to get the discount extended.
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As we saw it coming from the other end of the road the Blue sign marked a place, we could legally park. Lesson learnt the hard way of course, but frustrating just by the fact I hadn't looked at the sign from the other side to know that it was actually the point at which footway parking restrictions started.
Anyway, thanks for your response. Hopefully I will be in luck and Hillingdon council will have omitted to have made the required stipulations. (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji120.png)
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Blue signs mark beginning and end of allowed footway parking -for end see
https://maps.app.goo.gl/36UDc6eEhSFM4J9L7
The possible good news is that, in passing a resolution to disallow the footway parking ban in so-and-so road, some Councils forget to stipulate on which lengths of footway parking is so permitted, and thus allow parking for the whole road.
One of our members is an expert at obtaining these resolutions, so give him a chance (you have a few days) to come along and comment.
P.S can't help smiling at the ever-present CEO in GSV :)
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Hi, Members,
I went to park in a residential street and a saw a Blue pavement parking sign to my right so assumed I could park in front. On return I was dumbfounded to find I had been issued with a ticket.
Please see the PCN and related images. I would be grateful for your expertise to know if I have any valid grounds to challenge in so far as I was concerned, I was legally pavement parked according to the Blue sign.
PCN
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263265120_c401b5d7f4_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9Ga4f")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.20.34 (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9Ga4f") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263136084_28806fee07_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9FuGu")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.33.58 (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9FuGu") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
CAR PHOTOS:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263137184_ae8ea30ae0_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9Fv2s")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.27.41 (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9Fv2s") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263137184_ae8ea30ae0_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9Fv2s")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.27.41 (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9Fv2s") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53263078943_f9a142e162_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9FcHi")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.27.41 (1) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9FcHi") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53262788196_d2a24f6dd8_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9DHhq")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.27.40 (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9DHhq") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53262787986_ea31b3cf7a_h.jpg) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9DHdN")WhatsApp Image 2023-10-16 at 17.27.40 (1) (http://"https://flic.kr/p/2p9DHdN") by Dexx99 (http://"https://www.flickr.com/photos/199362893@N06/"), on Flickr
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4976576,-0.4212819,3a,75y,248.58h,91.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sISH_9-N9KSEmWbfdqM2gbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu