Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: JulianV on July 14, 2025, 10:35:19 am
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I have lodged my representation. I will update on the reply.
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What a mess. Unorthodox doesn't get near describing this.
Anyway, IMO your company is the registered keeper for DVLA purposes and therefore the presumed 'owner' for road traffic contravention purposes.
For these purposes, your company's relationship with the lease company and who has title to the vehicle are not relevant considerations.
Make reps(as your company) no later than 3 Aug(date of service of PCN is 7 July) using the arguments discussed regarding the contravention. For these purposes, the lease company's obligation as c/o addressee was simply to act as a conduit for the PCN; they do not have any right to make reps.
Can't wait to see the council's response to your company.
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Could the lease company have given the council the c/o address as the serviceable address perhaps?
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The letter was clearly addressed to:
MY COMPANY C/O LEASE COMPANY
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Sorry OP, your responses still do not make sense.
The PCN was addressed to my company c/o the lease company address.
The lease company scanned the PCN and emailed to me along with this:
There is no 'c/o' in this process.
Clearly, as the lease company wrote to your company regarding this PCN then it was addressed to them, not you.
Does your company have a PCN in their name alone from the council?
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The PCN was addressed to my company c/o the lease company address.
The lease company scanned the PCN and emailed to me along with this:
Dear Customer
What is happening?
We are writing to let you know that unfortunately we have received a parking fine or penalty charge notice for your vehicle JF13ABY
The details of the offence are as listed below:
Fine / Penalty Charge number: HG62062557
Date & Time: 07/06/2025 11:27:00
Location: Butts Green Road/Parkstone Avenue RM11(SB)
Issuing authority details: London Borough of Havering
Hirer address:
What happens now?
We have contacted the issuing authority on your behalf and have asked them to send the fine direct to you, at the 'hirer' address listed above. This is because in your leasing contract you are responsible for either paying the fine/penalty amount or appealing upon receipt from the authority.
Important information you need to know
Please be aware that:
Some authorities can take up to one calendar month to reissue a fine. If you don't receive the fine/charge notice after this time, then please contact the authority in question. If the address details above are incorrect you must contact us immediately so that we can update our system and resend the correct address information to the issuing authority listed above.
When an authority reissues the fine the discounted payment period restarts. However, please be aware that if you make an appeal and you are unsuccessful, you may lose the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate.
For any further information about the offence, please visit the issuing authorities' website, and enter the fine or penalty charge notice number. By accessing the website you may be able to:
-request a copy of the fine or penalty charge notice
-view the evidence of contravention, including images from the Issuer
-review your payment options
-get details on how you can appeal
Omoda & Jaecoo Contract Hire are unable to liaise with the authority regarding the offence once the liability has been transferred due to data protection
We have charged you or your company an administration fee of £12.50 +VAT, in line with your contract with us.
This fee will appear in your next monthly invoice.*
If you ignore the fine and not pay it Omoda & Jaecoo Contract Hire will receive an escalation notice and we will pay the fine and recharge the cost to you to avoid any further escalation or legal proceedings.
If you have any further questions on the penalty charge process please contact us by e-mailing, fines@OmodaJaecoocontracthire.co.uk
Best Wishes
Omoda & Jaecoo Account Team
* Omoda & Jaecoo Account Team will only look to refund the administration fee if you have successfully appealed your fine due to the authority having issued it in error. You will need to provide us with proof of this from the authority admitting their mistake, and upon receipt of this we will credit the administration fee. We will not look to refund the administration fee if your appeal was successful and cancelled as a gesture of goodwill.
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OP - are you saying the PCN you posted up earlier (dated 3 July) was addressed to the lease company, not to you (addressee was [correctly] redacted so we can't tell).
If so, surely that was out of time and the lease company could/should simply appeal on that basis?
Edit - or would it be possible for the OP to appeal when he eventually receives a PCN on the basis of the original being out of time?
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So let's be clear, you do not have a PCN in your name, correct?
Then there is nothing for you to do until you do receive one.
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This is a leased vehicle and the length of lease is 3 years.
The PCN was addressed to the lease company and they are writing to Havering to give them our details.
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At no point did the OP stop due to a stationary vehicle.
I agree the process issue needs tidying up.
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Part 6 conveys the prohibition that a person must not cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
With respect, there's excessive liberal interpretation of words here.
Has to stop.. due to the presence of stationary vehicles. Any vehicle, any position front/side coming or going are not determinate. IMO, the location of the 'stationary' vehicle obviously caused the driver to stop. Whether what turned out to be that vehicle's momentary stop provides a statutory defence is not a shoo-in IMO. As already pointed out, that vehicle was in the box before the driver even entered. So 'stationary vehicle in box causes the subject vehicle to stop and then moves off' is hardly a unique combination.
OP, pl deal with the PCN whose propriety IMO has precedence over the contravention
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And the remaining page(s)?
I reiterate our moderator's request.
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There was no stationary vehicle ahead of the box - this is the second limb of the law. No contravention as per others. Tell Havering to do something more useful and the report the car from the left to the Police.
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OP, can we get back to the PCN pl.
So:
Is the PCN addressed to you by name?
If so, is the car HIRED or is it LEASED.
If hired, for what period?
If leased, then for what period?
One step at a time.
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Uou've convinced me ! Stop was nominal, 2-3 seconds.
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This isn't a contravention as it's giving way to a car in motion. I can't even see that there was actually a stop when the other car was stopped (it's stop was tiny if at all).
(https://i.ibb.co/qMM5v7DY/Havering-YBJ-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
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The fact that the blocking vehicle is not stationary when the OPs vehicle comes to rest in the box means the PCN can't be upheld in my opinion.
I agree it is difficult to call.
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The fact that the blocking vehicle is not stationary when the OPs vehicle comes to rest in the box means the PCN can't be upheld in my opinion.
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https://youtu.be/PiWiF3IjyzM?feature=shared
Video
Clearly the council are seeking a prize for the most venal and rapacious enforcement of a council in the UK !
Problem for the OP is that the car emerged before the OP's car had entered the box, not after. However the car was only a small way into the box. It is enforcement on things like this that has given coouncils their Robber Barons reputation.
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https://youtu.be/PiWiF3IjyzM?feature=shared
Video
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There should be a webcode on the PCN - what is it?
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The car is leased. The lease company emailed me explaining they would give the lessee's details to Havering.
What does the lease say about PCNs etc?
Please ask the lease co. if they have received a NoA of Reps from the Council.
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The car is leased. The lease company emailed me explaining they would give the lessee's details to Havering.
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Do you own the car (i.e. not leased, hired, etc?).
Assuming so, the PCN has been served too late, I believe. LLA2003 requires the PCN to be served no later than the expiry of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention or failure to comply occurred.
28 days commencing with 7 June 2025 = 4 July 2025.
Your PCN is dated 3 July 2025 which means it is deemed served on 7 July 2025 (2 business days after posting).
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And the remaining page(s)?
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Post the PCN redacting only name and address.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Post the PCN redacting only name and address.
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100% not a contravention.
It's only an offence to have to stop due to stationary vehicles. The car which temporarily blocks you emerges from the side road and isn't stationary when you are forced to stop.
Havering a bit naughty to issue this PCN.
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PCN - HG62062557
VRM - JF 13 ABY
Our vehicle did stop in a YBJ at the unction of Butts Green Road and Parkstone Avenue, RM11. This was due to a vehicle who pulled out from Parkstone Avenue. As it was raining, I had an elderly person as passenger and I had a car behind me, I came to a safe, controlled stop but was inside the YBJ. From the video, I was stopped for around 4 seconds and did not impede anyone.
I would like to defend on the basis of the car pulling out and conditions left me no choice.
[attachment deleted by admin]